Why I'll say no to a united ireland

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913235#Comment_121913235

You have failed to back up the statement that, and I quote "The IFA still permit sectarianism in a number of clubs". You have repeatedly failed to produce any evidence of this. On the other hand, there is huge evidence of GAA clubs naming pitches, holding commemorations for terrorists, all sanctioned and approved by the GAA.

Produce the evidence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913217#Comment_121913217

Well, what is the comparison, because, as far as I can see, the situation in Northern Ireland is no way near comparable to that in any of the situations mentioned. The discrimination in Ireland against same-sex couples was far far deeper than the the discrimination against Catholics in Northern Ireland yet, we didn't see terrorist organisations being set up to fight it. People have choices and those who joined and supported the PIRA made the wrong bad choices.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912903#Comment_121912903

I know no one that see the flag this way. Thousands displayed the flag last weekend over St Patrick's day and Ireland winning the rugby. The fact that you see the flag and think of the IRA says more about you than anything else.

In Northern Ireland it is entirely different as the flag has taken on a different meaning there. In the exact same way the union Jack has a different meaning there than elsewhere in the world.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913281#Comment_121913281

It cannot be the flag of a united Ireland.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913366#Comment_121913366

That's an entirely different point than what I responded to. You said the flag was a stain on the country. It simply isn't and clearly isn't seen that way by the 1000s of people who displayed it last weekend.

A united Ireland will need a new flag.

PeaSea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913366#Comment_121913366

A huge decision, one not to be taken lightly, and up for debate as part of the whole unification process. Certainly not as simple as "cannot be the flag". Personally I don't see why not, though I appreciate others have a different view.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913281#Comment_121913281

The only people who have a problem with our flag are belligerent Unionists and partitionists with an ingrained inferiority complex.

Many flags have been hijacked across the world and reasonable people can see past that. Belligerent Unionism won't see past that because they are enabled by commentary like we have seen here.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913366#Comment_121913366

Of course it can and it probably will be one day. Personally I am open to using a new flag after reunification but most likely the current flag will stay and I am perfectly fine with that too especially given its meaning with regard to the different colours.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913540#Comment_121913540

If you call everyone disgusted at seeing the Irish tricolour draped across the coffins of sectarian terrorists "belligerent Unionists and partitionists with an ingrained inferiority complex.", then that just shows that a U.I. will never happen, not for a few generations at least.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912892#Comment_121912892

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post with this claim, but talk about misunderstanding.

If you read my posts, I said that systematic injustice leads to extremism, and cited evidence of this with Hamas, which is a present day example.

I never compared anything to the holocaust, so either you are playing dirty or genuinely misunderstood my post, but to make such a leap I can only think the former.

I don't believe for a second that ordinary Palestinians are blood thirsty anti Jew death cultists, but their mistreatment and subjugation has caused them to depend and support an extremist organisation that clearly is.

What happened in NI clearly does have parallels to many other parts of the world where extreme opression was carried out. I don't know how any right minded person can refute this.

Events in 1970s NI prompted (at the time), the largest migration of refugees across international borders since WW2. Were those people wrong to drop everything they owned and flee to the south? Were they overreacting? Or do you think they were genuinely terrified for their lives given what they had seen and experienced.

Outside of state permitted anti catholic discrimination, loyalist violence and burn outs, internment etc, the British government sent their army into NI to massacre its own unarmed and innocent civilians in Ballymurphy and Derry and to this day have refused to prosecute those involved. It is an absolute disgrace. This is on top of centuries of massacres, military invasions, theft and famine etc that were the highlights of British rule here.

Pointing this out does not mean I support, or ever supported, physical force republicanism, so quite a leap on your part, and I would have expect an easy way for you to downgrade what I said to make it appear I spoke out of hatred, or whatever dirty tricks you are playing.

If, as you say, extreme oppression did not take place in NI, why did support for the IRA grow exponentially in the nationalist community at this time? Are all nationalists anti British death cultists in your experience?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913734#Comment_121913734

The majority of the world respects our national flag even though it has been used by many interests. Our flag is burned by belligerent Unionists annually and rejected on their behalf by partitionists as we see here.

Flags of many countries are used by different groups - our neighbours being a case in point. It's used by everyone from Loyalists killers, the above belligerents and the BNP.

It's still the official flag of the UK though. As I said, reasonable people can see past it's misuse.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913779#Comment_121913779

"its misuse" you say? So you accept that putting the flag on the coffin of a paramilitary is wrong?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913871#Comment_121913871

I accept that some people are upset by it. But I know most reasonable people in the world get by the use of flags for something they don't agree with.

When you have belligerent Unionists (who will burn and defile a flag in an act of taunting) supported by embittered partitionists keen to appease those belligerents then the word 'reasonable' would not come into it.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913896#Comment_121913896

Most people do not think it right that paramilitaries anywhere should get to have the flag of their country on their coffin. It is why Bishop Daly in Derry refused para-military trappings at funerals during the troubles.

Overall, when you constantly moan about " belligerent Unionists" "supported by embittered partitionists ", it just goes to show the opposition up North to a United Ireland; hard to blame them when many thousands of them were killed and seriously injured by Republicans. There will not be a U.I., and if one was forced, it would not be peaceful.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914047#Comment_121914047

The future of this island won't be decided by belligerents and their enablers.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911553#Comment_121911553

Francie, you may just be right.

Unionists in this area, are going to get the popcorn out and watch this one.

Sinn Fein had organised and publicised it, and now the GAA under pressure are saying that they knew nothing about it until the SEFF victims group contacted them. 😂

This is going to be interesting to watch.

We have a sectarian PIRA terrorist who was killed while on active Service, while trying to kill police officers, practically outside the gates of the GAA club, and it appears the GAA club may not allow this event - although they have not confirmed that.

Castlewellan has five halls that could hold this.

The Presbyterian Church Hall - highly unlikely as their members have been cleansed from the town by him

The GAA club - they seem to be taking cold feet, even though local information would suggest that the person who takes the bookings had agreed to the booking

The Irish language Venue - I have a feeling they will not touch it

The community centre, even closer to where he was killed, And the venue of the exclusively nationalist ‘cross community youth club’ - can’t see how they can hold it

The exhibition hall above the library owned by the education authority - I would doubt it.

So this could be excellent for the IRA victims in the area. If the PIRA sectarian hero will not be allowed his 50th anniversary in any Hall in Castlewellan, what then.

I think there is a good chance that a pub will take it, but there is no doubt this will be massive for some of his victims, to see that no hall in this Republican town can dare to let this event in. The local mp, whose office is named after magorrian, will still refuse to condemn the PIRA sectarian killings, but the message will go out to young people that there is something wrong with the sf narrative.

Excellent. We have a while to it, but it is certainly a popcorn moment.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914554#Comment_121914554

You seem excited and at the same time disappointed that the gaa wont allow it,quite bizarre.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914561#Comment_121914561

Oh absolutely. When you are part of a community that has been devastated by IRA sectarian violence., this would be a very important development.

Most of the community that were cleansed out of Castlewellan because of their religious background, now live in nearby villages within a 5 mile radius. They still very much regard Castlewellan as their hometown. Everyone I speak to is thankful that the GAA has made this statement - this in itself shows that the activities of this man and his mates were not acceptable. Certainly, most people think that the GAA will buckle and hold the event, but we genuinely hope they will not. If the sectarian killers can be ostracised, and even their own community ashamed to have events in their name, this is very empowering for PIRA victims

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914561#Comment_121914561

Just to give my view on the effect of the statement. If the GAA stand firm and refuse to let the SF PIRA event into their club, this will undoubtedly have a positive impact in the minds of local unionists with regard to the GAA.

locals know that the GAA played a significant part in hosting events that drove unionists from the town, 30 years later, if they modify their position, then that will be welcomed and appreciated

downcow

I already see messages of support for the GAA appearing on unionist facebook pages. That has to be positive, and hopefully Augers goes well for the future. I think all most people want is the GAA to be a normal sporting organisation.

it is the a remarkable situation, when the unionist Community is giving a sporting body a pat on the back, because they are surprised by them not hosting an event celebrating a sectarian killer. Incredible!

droidman123

It makes no sense that you are disappointed downcow.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914703#Comment_121914703

"the GAA played a significant part in hosting events that drove unionists from the town"

What on earth were those pesky fenians up to?

Don't tell me they were fundraising for terminally ill kids again??

The bastards!

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915075#Comment_121915075

If that is a serious question, then I can give you examples. The last two protestant families to leave the centre of town left the day after the GAA hosted a Wolfe tones concert during which the town descended into mob rule. Both homes had windows broken by a chanting mob, and the police were unable to attend due to the mob rule. The families were terrified and moved out over the coming days. The GAA went on and repeated the event the following year.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914703#Comment_121914703

So do you withdraw your remarks about what you claimed was a 'GAA event'? Or will you just keep digging like you did with the 'nationalist' children?

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915126#Comment_121915126

So instead of blaming the "chanting mob" you blame the amateur sporting club run by volunteers as a service to the community as they were hosting a fundraiser on that night over 30 years ago.

Your hatred for the organisation is very strong. According to you, they've driven Unionists out of a town. They were "scumbags" last week for having the audacity to fund raise for a terminally-ill child.

Keep going ... If you check the records maybe New York GAA club were training before the 9/11 attack? Maybe Enniskillen Gaels had a match on the morning of the Remembrance day bombing?

It will make no difference to your engrained hatred if the proposed Magorrian event this year goes ahead or not.

In fact as another poster has noticed you almost seem disappointed at the prospect of it being cancelled.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913774#Comment_121913774

Your theory falls down when you consider that in Nazi Germany, systematic injustice did not lead to the Jews forming a terrorist organisation.

Support for the PIRA did not grow exponentially in the nationalist community. Throughout the time that they were terrorising and killing their own people, the PIRA and their political backers had minimal nationalist support. Ordinary nationalists in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 1980s lived in fear of the PIRA and a knock on their door. They saw and knew what happened to the likes of Jean McConville and other Disappeared. Innocent nationalists abducted, tortured and buried in a bog by the PIRA.

It seems that you have fallen victim to the good republican revisionism when it comes to understanding history.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915956#Comment_121915956

'Understand history' you say?

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/jewish-resistance

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915592#Comment_121915592

Did I say it was a gaa event? Don’t think so.

but it is developing into an excellent test case

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915956#Comment_121915956

My theory doesn't fall down anywhere. It has been repeated all over the world and throughout history., do you genuinely not see this or what game are you playing?

You are the only one equating NI with the holocaust, I have no idea why as nobody brought this up other than you.

Of course there was Jewish resistance, but they were fighting a murder machine the likes the world had never seen before in Nazi germany, and a v acute system of killing people, and their population was v small.

More equivalent would be Jewish terrorist organizations that sprung up in Palestine fighting the British overseers, who saw themselves as kindred spirits to the IRA

Lastly - of course there was widespread support for the IRA at that time, people were driven into their waiting arms due to the terror they endured form loyalism and Britain. If there wasn't support, they wouldn't have been able to carry out what they did.

Widespread support for them is now gone, and consequently bar a few headbangers so are they.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916173#Comment_121916173

Did I say it was a gaa event? 

You had to be told several times that it wasn't a GAA event and you handwaved that away to criticise the GAA.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916201#Comment_121916201

Just to repeat. Did I at anytime say it was a GAA event?