Barbie Kardashian is in a women's prison. Taoiseach's response to questions on this are here..

Beechwoodspark

Having read some of the background of this animal, there is a strong case for permanent incarceration.

newhouse87

Very surprised none of the usual suspects on boards are here to defend this "womans" rights. Maybe everybody is seeing how ridiculous this is all becoming.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385142#Comment_120385142

The problem is that any coverage of such stories = transphobia in the minds of trans activists.

I recently heard a professor on the radio who deals with the medical reality of transitioning saying that activists are having too much of an influence on how the issue is dealt with to the point where medical professionals are afraid to anger them with scientific findings they may not agree with.

The tail is wagging the dog on this issue and has been for a long time.

Saying this particular person should not be in a female prison isn't the same as saying trans people should be shunned from society but somehow that's where we are.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386429#Comment_120386429

Dept of Justice is led by the Minister for Justice who reports to the Taoiseach

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385145#Comment_120385145

It is possible for this individual to be seriously mentally unstable and this not to be the case for "most of these people".

Extrapolating the characteristics of an entire group from a single individual is the very definition of prejudice.

And to be clear they should not be in women's prison, lest I be accused of something I havn't said.

donaghs

Leo Varadker effectively seems to be saying the law is wrong. Self ID as it stands it wrong. So what should be done?

But his take on it is still unsatisfying to all sides of the "debate"?

So far it goes like this? < A man can become a woman if they identify as a woman. and they should be treated as a woman in all respects after this point. BUT, if they have a history of violence towards women, they cannot be sent to a woman's prison ?

That seems to undermine the whole point of "trans women are women".

Neyite

The issue was never about transgender women using women's spaces. I'm late forties and and finding the occasional transgender woman in a bathroom in a club was par for the course, and was not a big deal. We all knew where we stood. Those women were friendly and respectful and used the bathrooms like women do.

The issue is that men - who are not transgender - the flashers, pervs and the rapists that used to get ran off or the gardai called on them can now legitimately Self-ID and go into the very spaces they'd previously would have been hauled out of by security, flash or molest to their hearts content. And if women or girls speak up about this, they get accused of transphobia. Never underestimate the extreme lengths sexual predators will go to achieve their aims. There are men who carefully groom for years, train for years in a profession where they can access victims easily. Do we really think a notarised self ID form is going to be a problem for them?

Self ID was a noble idea, however it's turned into a very neat loophole for the very men that it was designed to protect women (including transgender women), from.

Prison-Onset-Gender Dysphoria is increasingly becoming common among men who have been convicted of sex crimes. TBF, you can see why they would identify as female. Women typically get lower sentences, and sex offenders are usually a vulnerable group in mens prisons. So you have the opportunity to get a shorter sentence, and be not only protected from your predators but also gain access to a pool of vulnerable prey for yourself - all you have to do is sign and notarise a form and away you go.

There's no easy answer. But maybe we can start with scrapping the 'no debate' mantra. Because clearly a discussion about how we protect both transgender people and women & girls needs to be had. Because the way it is now, it's harm for both groups.

lawrencesummers

Surely voluntarily changing your name to kardashian is enough to be landed in a mental institute with no additional need for psychiatric evaluation.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386763#Comment_120386763

I agree with your overall points. i.e. the "no debate" mantra. Unfortunately I don't think its a binary thing. i.e. that there are people who ARE really transgender and people who are just PRETENDING. Transgender is tiny tiny proportion of the population, but within that there is a huge spectrum of different behaviours, etc.

There are certainly some male perverts who will use the Self-ID excuse to do their thing. But the idea that a male who identifies as female could never be abusive physically or sexually towards a woman is just ideological blindness.

hotmail.com

Given that the Taoiseach has said this, how likely is it that this person will be moved to a men's prison today?

hotmail.com

Ruth Coppinger standing up for convicted criminals now.

She says convicted trans women should serve their time only in a women's prison.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386598#Comment_120386598

Their dramatic extremism is what allows them such power, and societies inability to recognize when a group is essentially emotionally manipulating them. It started out with the "trans people exist" nonsense when no one said that they didn't, they've now evolved into literally calling any opposition to anything that they push as "genocide". They are forcing people into a position of non opposition, because if you dare oppose anything they do you're all but a genocidal lunatic in their eyes.

https://twitter.com/AlyAlyOutnFree/status/1632137002278694912

https://twitter.com/TerceraVenida/status/1634323667650768896

Jequ0n

If details on the individual’s background are accurate they are likely to have far greater issues than their self identified gender and they should be in a facility that is equipped to deal with them.

There is no benefit in keeping them in a regular prison to just see through their sentence.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386939#Comment_120386939

You have to laugh at that second tweet moaning about capitalist countries trying to roll back LGBTQ rights and "genocide trans people" with their hammer and sycle communist logo.

They should go to China and see how the Communist party deals with LGBTQ rights.

The modern left are insane.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387070#Comment_120387070

She dont like getting replies either. Think she chooses who can reply. Very like china in that sense i suppose.

Spanish Eyes

A chink of sunlight on this piece from (WHOA!) the Indo, I am surprised they have reported it, but pleased at the same time.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-says-violent-biological-males-should-not-be-in-womens-prisons-42398546.html

Nothing so far from the super mouthpiece of Government RTE, or from the super woke "paper of record" the IT, neither of which omissions surprises me in the least. Treat us like mushrooms, keep in the dark and feed us sh!t.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387070#Comment_120387070

An extreme of an extreme is not the "modern left"

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387179#Comment_120387179

I'm assuming you take the same view when it comes to extreme right wing views as well.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387216#Comment_120387216

Of course. Thing is the extreme right now characterises anything from Centre right and centre as extreme left.

SnazzyPig

I only heard of this case over the weekend  - says Varadker, yet he was well aware of the case in Scotland.

Also preparing to throw Harris under the bus.

Sweet.Science

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387260#Comment_120387260

And McEntee dodges the bullet again

Beasty

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Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386509#Comment_120386509

A strongly worded PM will be arriving into the Dept. of an Taoiseach informing Leo that he's been banned.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386763#Comment_120386763

Very good post.

I don't care about the bathroom issue and like most sane people I roll my eyes when I hear people crying about pronouns as if it was some hardship for them.

This person however is not an ally to the LGBT community and left wing politicians who are attacking Leo over this are falling for Barbie's bait hook line and sinker. I don't know the solution here whatsoever sadly but yeah we need a debate not dominated by the bigots and the well meaning but clearly naive people on the left.

Better chance of Carlow winning an all ireland sadly😒

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387179#Comment_120387179

A lone twitter account is not the modern left.

Citizen Six

Is there any more pictures of Barbie? Only seems to be two of them doing the rounds. Surely there's a couple more knocking about.

Gatling

The only two trans prisoners in women's prisons here are both violent sex offenders,

Seems to be a common issue with sex offenders

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387828#Comment_120387828

"This person however is not an ally to the LGBT community". (i.e. Barbie Kardashian)

That's a great quote. Very diplomatically put.

However, if Self-ID is a principle worth defending, then Barbie Kardashian is worth defending, even she/they are not a "model victim".

In sexual assault cases, the idea of the ‘perfect victim’ is pernicious | Keir Starmer | The Guardian

I don't agree with the current self-ID process, and I think this case is another one which shows up its flaws.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388051#Comment_120388051

Exactly. Either you fully support Self ID, or you don't. Trans activists seem to paint it as a black and white issue which should be supported at all costs. Then you get anomalies like Barbie K.

Spanish Eyes

I don't quite know what to make of this statement by Acting MOJ Harris. Is he fudging and hoping for enough time to elapse without a deep dive into the issue in the hope that McEntee returns from maternity leave in time to deal with it or what?

He mentions following "International best practice" regarding trans prisoners (presumable M-F), however one of the "best practices" was in Scotland and look what happened there.... Someone is telling porkies.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nobody-should-be-at-risk-of-violence-in-prison-justice-minister-says-new-rules-on-management-of-trans-offenders-to-be-published-42398546.html

I think the UK has now corrected things well in that biological (intact) men with a GRC convicted of violent and/or sexual crimes will be held in male prisons. Surely we should follow suit now?

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/uks-ban-on-transgender-women-in-female-prisons-extended-42360372.html