2023 Irish EV Sales

sk8board

The worldwide tesla numbers all seem to show a roughly 75:25 split in sales between the Y and 3.

the m3 refresh will need to be a LOT more than 2 bumpers if they are to avoid becoming a 1-model manufacturer for the next 2-3 years until the next model is announced, tooled and delivered - or else serious price cuts on the 3 perhaps, to keep those production lines open.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936830#Comment_120936830

The Model 3 is no longer important to Tesla. Like the Model S and Model X stopped being important in 2016 when the Model 3 arrived. The Model Y will be milked for quite some time to come and I'd say the Cybertruck will be super high margin on a different scale again.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930753#Comment_120930753

I’m a firm believer that goods being supplied to the EU should come from a factory that meets the sane requirements for health and safety, staff welfare , etc

that would be a start

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937098#Comment_120937098

The S and X effectively had the market to themselves, but had vanished by 2018/19.

the Y has about 3-4 years of runway, but in the most crowded competitive market segment there is.

as for the truck, it’s unlikely to have ‘super high margins’, but let’s see - high margins is what happens when you’re early to the game and have wealthy early adopters (like how they charged $100k+ for the S and X).

ford dropped the Lightening price to under $50k, so that’s now set the bar for the tesla truck, even Musk acknowledged that a few weeks ago.

their truck appears to have much higher material costs and manufacturing complexity too (if it didn’t, they’d have delivered it a few years ago as planned).

they’re unlikely to be homologised to EU roads in their current size either, nor in China.

I seem to remember Musk saying a few years ago they might have a smaller one for non-US markets, something like the Ford Ranger versus the F150 - but like everything, it would be many years away.

personally, my money is on the truck existing outside the US in the same volume as the X did.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940701#Comment_120940701

Your post seem incoherent at best if I put it diplomatically. F150 Lightning price under $50k, did you check that recently? It was the original target sales price from Ford but obviously they got it completely wrong. Even if they sold it at $80k, they'd make a loss on it.

On the other hand, if Tesla were to sell the base Cybertruck at say $60k, they would make a huge margin. But it's likely they will use their book of tricks not to sell any at the originally promised price and start selling them at say $80k. For Tesla that would mean $40k profit per car. For Ford it would mean barely breaking even.

It's unfortunate that discussions like these don't seem to be preserved for the future. If they were it would go to show how incredibly stupid and stubborn people were before things changed...

Jack lemmon

“F150 Lightning price under $50k, did you check that recently? “

Base model is now under $50kish

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941522#Comment_120941522

I’m glad you approach these discussions with such even mindedness as always 🙄

Lightening for $49k:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/17/23797364/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-price-drop

and the response from his Lordship:

https://insideevs.com/news/677344/ford-f150-lightning-pricing-elon-musk/

”Elon Musk noted that the Ford F-150 Lightning is a "good vehicle," but it's still too expensive, even after the $6,000-$10,000 price reductions

If he considers the Ford F-150 Lightning expensive (starting at an MSRP of $49,995 then, as we understand, we should expect noticeably lower prices for the Tesla Cybertruck”

it’s hard to see “super high margins” on a truck with this material and manufacturing complexity that costs e.g $45k. When it was announced, the guide price for the single motor version was $39.9k.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941522#Comment_120941522

There is no way a roadworthy cybertruck can be built for $40k

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941832#Comment_120941832

The weird part is that is should be extremely cheap to manufacture the cyber truck, it's basically just a gigacast frame and some sheet metal welded together

It looks like Elon as usual managed to find some crazy ways to add costs. Like the mega windscreen wiper which needs some bizarre custom mechanism to be road legal

Or they have just used two wipers, like everyone else

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120942089#Comment_120942089

True. it’ll be interesting to see the build quality in the first year.

I’ve seen some pics of camo wrapped ones this week and it actually looks so much better than the delorean look.

being late to market, it has to undercut the competition on price too. At $45-49k I can’t see how it would have any more margin than their blended Q2 18% vehicle margin. The R&D cost of 3 years of delays must be huge too.

I can’t deny it’s going to be fascinating to watch, both the product and the margins.

it’s not going to make much difference to this “2023 Irish EV sales” thread anyway!

AMKC

https://www.irishevassociation.ie/irish-ev-registrations-july-2023/?fbclid=IwAR0LvEHcblCyuBaRXhROpHJCIgPQO3AYpyVXam9xTTqD8ZJ80K-ZuLxcUnc

VW and Skoda doing well to. Even a Tesla Model S and X there.

Renault Mègane -E Tech doing OK.

Ora not doing so well do. Need to do better. A pity.

Gumbo

Yea been posted a few times now.

They were out on the 1st Aug.

One thing that keeps popping up is the low volume sales of Polestar. I don’t think I’ve seen them in the top 10. Same for Tesla in July due to their weirdo shipping patterns.

BYD soaring in July. MIC are taking over and the traditional legacy manufacturers need to stand up and take notice.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949105#Comment_120949105

I imagine sales of the Atto 3 will soar in the next year, even though MSL added extra dealer fees it's still considerably cheaper than the likes of a Niro or ID4 when comparing tech specs

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955801#Comment_120955801

I agree. I think they have the chance to be No. 1 seller. They would wipe the floor with everything if they were slighter cheaper IMO.

Following my post Polestar currently sending out the chain emails selling off the 232 cars. €5k bonus on €60k plus cars an available on some cars and 3.9% PCP.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955801#Comment_120955801

Pretty much except for the DC charging speeds where the Atto is still offering 2019-levels of performance.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956390#Comment_120956390

If you average the charging curve speed the Atto 3(60kWh) averages 69kWh.

ID3 facelift (62kWh) averages 71kWh

M3SR(60kWh) averages 85kWh

PS2 (64kWh) is 82kWh

Its not that bad. If people are mostly using home charging for their commuter belt trips then super high charging speeds are not an advantage. Higher average charging speeds are great if you do regular long trips that require you to use public charging but very few non-tesla chargers in Ireland offer sustained charging speeds above 80kWh.

Tesla offer some of the highest average charging speeds in the game but unfortunately there's trade-offs with every brand, be it price, quality, amount of tech, warranty.

It's worth noting that BYD offer 8 years or 200k Kilometres battery warranty which is industry leading afaik, although the drive motor is 8 years/150k kilometres.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956943#Comment_120956943

You can't average a time series like that. It takes proportionately longer to get from 80% to 90% as it does from 20% to 30%, so the average of the kW speeds isn't a valid measure of the charge performance.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956976#Comment_120956976

Right, then what is the best metric to gauge performance?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957357#Comment_120957357

It should be calculated and published just like performance metrics such as the 0 to 100kmph performance.

So duration in minutes for: 10% to 80%, 10% to 90% and 10% to 100% on a higher capacity charger than the vehicle.

That way you know straight-up what the DC performance is, what the charging overhead is (losses, etc) and it provides an incentive for manufacturers to improve the charging speed while also maintaining the long-term battery health.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957741#Comment_120957741

Agree it should be standardised, EV database has charging information for most cars and also sometime has a charging graph from Fastned

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957764#Comment_120957764

One concern around that is whether published charging performance then becomes a contractual factor - ie, if the performance is later reduced through a firmware update due to an oversight within the BMS... but yeah, should be standardised alright.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957770#Comment_120957770

Funnily enough Hundai US are being sued for that reason, they had to lower the charging current on AC for some reason which invalidated the AC charging time on the spec sheet.

There's likely enough space for manufacturers to get out of it, bit like 0-60 times they only state what the car has achieved but if someone doesn't manage the same time the manufacturer can just blame outside factors

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957770#Comment_120957770

Also some cars don't get near the theoretical charging speed due to no preheating etc...

I find the charging is too fast anyway, can't sit and have lunch/dinner in peace as always have to move the car off the charger as it's ready before me. Car is often ready before the McDonald's or burger king is even served.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120957969#Comment_120957969

First I've heard of this problem🍔 Home made ham and cheese sandwiches for you going forward😂

electricus

Last time I stopped for a 10 minute fast charge there was no time to buy chocolate as the petrol queue was too long.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956943#Comment_120956943

BYD offer 6 years basic warranty (still great btw). 2 years longer than Tesla.

Battery and drivetrain is 8 years similar to Tesla.

ted1

Warranties are only good when they are acted on.

no idea how good BYD or Tesla are with warranties

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968035#Comment_120968035

I don't know about BYD but Tesla are very good. Warranty work always done without a quibble, never charged me a cent. Even some work done that wasn't really warranty work, like a halogen bulb replacement. And a good bit of the work done at my home, on my driveway, while I was working away in the home office

Always got a loaner car of higher value than my own car for the duration of any warranty work if I had to bring the car to their workshop. In the case of the HV battery replacement on my 2014 Model S, I got a 2020 Model Y (worth €100k) for 3 weeks. Although in the last year or so they put up more of a fight when you want a loaner car, offering only to cover taxi costs, although I still won that fight every time

And of course your consumer rights are enforcable. The small claims court in Ireland is pretty good for the small man vs the business in case you have been wronged (up to only €2500 though)

AidenL

There seem to be a lot of pre reg high value Mercedes and BMWs sitting around these days, some are taking significant price cuts on 21 and 22 models.

I wonder is it fair to say that, in the 40-60k price range, there's a fair bit of activity, but at the 80-120k level, people still go with ICE or PHEV options?

innrain

I know the month of August is a slow one so here just to report that a new milestone has been reached: 20k EV sold from the beginning of the year. I don't think we will reach 25k at the end of the year but 20% market share it is a good target.

As the figures go Tesla sold more Model3s than Ys in August and broke the end of quarter delivery belief. Nissan sunk as a rock overtaking Porsche with just one car. Toyota made the top 10 in the manufacturers sales list.