2023 Irish EV Sales

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802569#Comment_120802569

VW didn't halt production, they reduced production in one of 3 plants in Germany due to lower forecast demand

Not saying it isn't a potential problem, but far from a production stop as you described

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802657#Comment_120802657

It's interesting how the VW news has been reported. They've extended the summer production holiday on the ID.4 & ID.7 lines in Emden because they're seeing 30% less demand than they originally forecasted. I wonder how much of the 30% demand reduction has come from them accelerating production at Chattanooga due to the made in America requirements of the inflation reduction act.

Every year we seem to see prophecies of doom for VW followed by increased year on year EV sales.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802657#Comment_120802657

It's the opposite tactic from Tesla: Keep the supply in check by keeping the prices high and reduce output as opposed to build as many as you can and adjust the price to generate the sales.

Tesla have decided not to worry about shifting the second hand stock, but in case of VW and the others financing is a very important part of the strategy. For that keeping prices of HP/lease returns high is very important. I reckon they now try to convince buyers taking a look at their used stock as opposed to buying new.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802705#Comment_120802705

Have to agree here.

VW have unpresidential second hand stock levels currently through Ireland. The second hand values have come down in mine with other cars thankfully and it might see some movement.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802657#Comment_120802657

True, halted was wrong

Slowed

slave1

Lots of positives in these numbers, shame Nissan have let the EV market go through internal difficulties. VW living on their name and Tesla starting to charge well. A few EVs in the top 10 of all cars is great

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802569#Comment_120802569

This would be my suspicion too. Sell only as many as needed to offset the Tuscon sales 🙁

unkel

Yes of course they make far more profit on a stinky diesel than on an EV. You can't blame them, all companies exist to make the maximum profit possible for their shareholders. The emissions rules should have been much further tightened, much quicker. But obviously the car companies have very strong lobby power.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800983#Comment_120800983

Volvo aren’t really legacy, they are up there with MG and lotus as part of the Geeky group

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802569#Comment_120802569

Have VW not stalled one plant ? America and Chinese VW plants are still churning out ID4,5 and 6s

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120799253#Comment_120799253

We might still be playing catchup compared to the Norwegians and the Dutch, but we're progressive compared to a lot of other European countries. I was surprised by how few IDs I saw while crossing Germany. Two ID4s and three ID3s. Half autobahn, half regional roads, villages. We obviously missed a few, but as a family when driving we play a 'car of the day' competition to encourage the kids to look out the windows instead of being on screens. So we'd be keeping a good eye out. I thought that in the home of Volkswagen they would be as common as in Ireland.

[Edit] It seems that the 2% BEV sales for 2022 that I posted earlier was actually overall market share. The 2022 BEV sales percentage is 17.8% in Germany. Not sure where they're being used. Perhaps in the major urban centres which we didn't go into.

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry-news/bev-sales-europe-29-year-year-2022

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844705#Comment_120844705

I would normally drive around maybe the southern half of Swords in a day at most, and I still normally see around 6 ID.4s as well as several ID.3s and Enyaqs

pad199207

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844956#Comment_120844956

Naas is full of ID 4’s I have to say. Tesla too.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845104#Comment_120845104

Lots of EV's in general around Naas.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845104#Comment_120845104

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120845113#Comment_120845113

I would say the Dublin commuter belt (which at this point seems to be most of Leinster) is prime territory for EV ownership

A lot of people living around there will have access to driveways, can charge at home and wouldn't have the range or charging concerns of someone who has to travel hundreds of kilometres per day

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666915#Comment_120666915

Might as well post this here as a comparison, EV sales in the EU for May:

https://i.imgur.com/lR0ZS3V.jpg

robnet77

That's funny, I saw a slightly different chart where the Audi Q4 e-tron was in eighth place?

https://insideevs.com/news/677106/europe-plugin-car-sales-may2023/

1. Tesla Model Y - 21,967
2. Volkswagen ID.4 - 8,600
3. Volvo XC40 (BEV + PHEV) - 8,233
4. MG 4 - 6,535
5. Fiat 500 electric - 6,347
6. Skoda Enyaq iV - 6,302
7. Tesla Model 3 - 6,265
8. Audi Q4 e-tron - 5,957
9. Volkswagen ID.3 - 5,609
10. BMW i4 - 4,572

innrain

4,159 EVs sold in July. MG and BYD coming fast. Tesla's nowhere this month.

Manufacturers list from the beginning of the year

TitianGerm

VW are very consistent with the number of ID4s sold every month.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930231#Comment_120930231

Tesla deliver to Ireland quarterly due to boat shipments from Shanghai thus there was a glut of cars registered before the end of June which explains the lack of cars for July but you'll see them fairly high on the list for the end of this quarters stats when the next boat offloads here.

BYD have a great offering with the Atto 3. I find a bit odd it doesn't have a rain sensor in any of the trim levels considering all the tech it has, it should be fairly inexpensive to fit on the manufacturing line. Hopefully they'll listen to customer feedback and add it.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802866#Comment_120802866

I agree re profit and shareholder obligations. The mature brands were in denial for a long time so they were well behind the likes of Tesla for EV manufacturing efficiency, development and procurement of supply chains. However, if the EU tightened regulations further and quicker it would have led to far more European job losses than the EV industry has already caused because they wouldn't have enough time to adapt.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930573#Comment_120930573

Possibly in the short term, but it would have put the European incumbents into overdrive (survival mode), from which they might have come out stronger and better able to tackle the upcoming tsunami of competition from China. Which in the mid to longer term might have saved jobs rather than cost any.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930625#Comment_120930625

The EU may need to enforce an import tariff of some sort on Chinese EVs. I have no idea whether that's legally possible. A tariff will no doubt harm EU emissions targets, customer choice and affordability but they may have no choice in order to protect direct and indirect jobs and their own legislative positions. Over 2.5 million people are directly employed in the auto manufacturing industry in Europe after all. More jobs will be lost in EU auto industry anyway due to the far less complex nature of EVs but so the incoming tsunami of cheap Chinese EVs will do damage. European manufacturing facilities can't possibly match the lower cost of labour/material, and scale of Chinese manufacturing.

unkel

Not legally possible and even if it were, it would do us far more harm then good as it hinders competition and we end up paying higher prices. Protectionism never worked in any country's favour. It's basically a local subsidy.

And yes we will have to prepair for the shocks to the system this transition will bring. How many people work in car maintenance in Europe, must be millions? Most of those jobs will be gone in the next few decades.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930753#Comment_120930753

I believe the EU is considering anti dumping tariffs on Chinese made EVs if they can determine they are effectively being sold at a loss in order to destroy the European car industry

It could just be rhetoric to show they're doing something. Chinese brands are already subject to tariffs and are still cheaper despite it, European manufacturers have seriously dropped the ball in terms of both EV development and cost cutting

So far most of the EV investment has shifted away from the EU because the incentives from other countries like the US has been far greater

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930796#Comment_120930796

I agree it hinders competition, however I disagree on your point of protectionism, it does help countries and people in my opinion. In some industries anti-protectionism ultimately puts power in the hands of a few and rewards countries who treats their workers poorly, and rewards those who have poor environmental standards. You can argue that people can retrain or something along that line but not everyone can retrain particularly if they're part of a more mature generation who are commonly affected by ageism when seeking new jobs.

At what point do you stop protecting an industry from goods produced outside the of the EU?, I will digress. Take the EU common agricultural policy as a prime example, it imposes tariffs/regulations on foreign agricultural exports to the EU, does this benefit consumers? Yes because it ensures food is produced to a regulated standard and supports and protects jobs of those employed in the agri industry inside the block, no because it increases the cost of food for the consumer. Should the EU abolish CAP and let a wave of cheap and unregulated food into Europe?

unkel

China does more towards moving to fully renewable energy than the rest of the world combined. But that asice, let them make all the cheap stuff for us (that will include cars soon) and we'll keep on providing higher research and education based, higher added value services and goods. Like the robots that build the cars and the machines that build computer chips. So we can become even richer and work less. That's what international trade is all about 😁

Of course whatever is sold into the EU, be it cars or foods or whatever, must adhere to our strict rules of safety.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931150#Comment_120931150

I can't say I agree, the less power the EU cedes to Emperor Xi the better if the EU wants to maintain its influence, values, and sovereignty through the balance of trade. Less work and more wealth can only be true to an extent. There's only so much high tech industry the bloc can develop that doesn't require domestic manufacturing. When jobs are moved overseas there are always people who are left behind. The EU should be able to innovate without haemorrhaging jobs to China in good paying industries like the car manufacturing industry. Less jobs will mean less funds to invest in innovation. Low-skilled workers need jobs until universal basic income becomes viable and commonplace so the bloc needs to protect industries jobs for those that can't attain higher education.

On an individual level paying higher prices sucks but if collectively it help to support millions of people then it's for the better.

unkel

@DrPsychia - "without haemorrhaging jobs to China in good paying industries like the car manufacturing industry"

Ah you see but the car manufacturing industry will soon no longer be a good paying industry. And we don't really want or need those low paying jobs as long as we can move up to the next level quicker than the Chinese. Which will likely happen for a long time as our culture and freedom and capitalism will allow for more innovation. It's not for nothing that all the biggest companies only exist a few decades now and are based in Silicon Valley. Everything new is invented in the western world.

dloob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120931150#Comment_120931150

They do other things more than the rest of world combined too.

Six times more, equivalent to about two new coal power plants per week https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin

Probably enough to offset all the emissions saved by EVs manufactured in China if not globally.