Pubs of Ireland (No More)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244021#Comment_120244021

The 2 craft breweries in Limerick are now cheaper that pubs selling "normal" beer.

I think you are just projecting personal bias on to the situation.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243875#Comment_120243875

Yeah price has a lot to do with it too. Most young people simply can't afford pints as a main way to socialise nowadays. But habit has a lot do do with it too. I mean habit as a socialising activity rather than a dependence on alcohol.

If they never form the habit of going to thenpub as the default way to socialise (becaise its too expensive), then they're jot likely to spend much in the pubs over their lifetime and it shrinks the market.

But who really cares if pubs close? Supply needs to match demand. It's sad for anyone who loses their job. But it's not the customer's job to create demand to keep pubs open.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244544#Comment_120244544

Amazing how you can keep getting this so wrong.

I don't care what people drink. They can drink their own piss if they wish.

What I do care about is being ripped off and breweries and publicans jacking up prices on a whim.

In addition, I have tried many a craft beer and I know people that work in the industry too. And I can tell you they are always shocked at how much the price of their product is inflated to at sale. 😉

I know people that work for a small craft brewery that drink Guinness when they're out, because the cost of buying their own brewed stuff is insane.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244569#Comment_120244569

So why then did you say the "nucleus" of the breweries increasing prices was people being willing to pay more for entirely different products made by entirely different companies?

Or did you make a major error in writing your post, that you don't actually believe and didn't realise you'd made?

You are going to the ends of the earth to try claim you didn't say what you said; even though you have doubled down on your aggression towards craft beer drinkers.

yourdeadwright

Temple bar is the one place i would have no issues with any pubs closing in , Suc ha rip off pints like shite and the pubs are a dump,

Infact i think its should be every Dubs obligation to let every tourist you meet know no locals drink there & go else wherein the City ,

I don't think iv heard anyone who is a Dub & decided to go to Temple bar for a night out in the last 20 years

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244561#Comment_120244561

I think lots of people would care. The pub is a great place to meet your mates or new people. It's a damn sight better than reading text on a screen of an evening. I think losing sight of how good our pub culture is is a bad thing, and TBH and we'll become poorer as a national culture because of it. There's a reason why many tourists who come to Ireland think that going out here is much better than in their own country. It's a very different and unique vibe to a lot of places.

The traditional old Irish pub is a thing of beauty and it would be a shame if it were to disappear completely. ☺️

But, as I said, if they keep price gouging, then to hell with them.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244575#Comment_120244575

I made no errors. Publicans and breweries will raise prices if people are willing to spend the money to meet those prices and craft beer hipsters will routinely pay waaaaay over the odds for their IPA's and whatnot. That's the nucleus of the issue. However the fault still lies with people doing the gouging.

This isn't hard to understand.

Admit it, you read one line, missed the rest, and lost your shit.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244615#Comment_120244615

I didn't lose my ****, I identified someone with a giant chip on their shoulder who gets exceptionally angry when its pointed out to them. And who has made that ever clearer with every post.

The people paying the money that encourages the macro brewers to raise their prices are the macro beer drinkers. Nobody else. You need to realise that and stop being so very angry about people who happen to drink something different.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244631#Comment_120244631

🤣

Still aren't getting it, are you.

Amazing.

You do you lad.

Glebee

Was out last weekend for the first time since Christmas. Rural Ireland, €5 for a pint of Guinness, €5.60 for a lager is just not worth it in my opinion. Its madness really. Publicans are going to price themselves out of existence soon.

Hungry Burger

Who sets the prices? Publicans or Diageo?

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244569#Comment_120244569

In addition, I have tried many a craft beer and I know people that work in the industry too. And I can tell you they are always shocked at how much the price of their product is inflated to at sale

I know people that work for a small craft brewery that drink Guinness when they're out, because the cost of buying their own brewed stuff is insane.

Well, that's a lie.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244684#Comment_120244684

The publicans set their sale price at the tap. But the Breweries will set the price on the keg.

So for instance, Heineken put a 9% rise on the keg recently and a few pubs actually told them to get stuffed instead of just passing it onto the customer. My own local did just that and got the taps removed. Diageo put a rise onto a barrel of Guinness a few weeks ago too, so get prepared to see a pint of that rise.

The craft stuff, however, is where the piss is really taken. I have it on good authority that certain product in a company I know people work for has a final sale mark up that is staggering. They sell it at a certain rate and the publican whacks up the price making a huge profit.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244728#Comment_120244728

That would not be the case in any craft beer pub I ever worked.

The craft kegs were put through the exact same GP calculator. In fact you were more likely to take a couple of % of a hit on craft because you sell less so real GP loss is lower.

Again just making stuff up to support your bias.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244786#Comment_120244786

I'm only saying what I was told.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244788#Comment_120244788

I'm only saying what I saw and done myself from 15 years in the industry and much of that in macro/craft split pubs.

You were told shte.

Here is just 1 pub as an example. No difference between craft and macro. One of the only 2 €7 beers is a macro and one of the 2 cheapest is local brewed.

https://mothermacs.ie/index.php/beer/

Tony EH

You were told shte.

If you wish.

I'm off to the pub now, to see how much the price of a Guinness has risen too. 😆

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244832#Comment_120244832

Good luck to ya. I'm off for a €5 pint of the much nicer Treaty Stout in a pub that's booming cause it's not stuck in the 1970s.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244786#Comment_120244786

Nah, after buying a product with a higher production cost, made in smaller quantities, giving up a line in the process, they then jack up the margins to ensure it goes unsold...

Sounds like terrible profiteering to me but if Tony's mates say it it must be true.

When the price rise kicks in in my local, Heineken will cost more than Ambush, and Tony and his ilk will go from being angry at it for being overpriced piss to being angry at it for being cheap.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244520#Comment_120244520

You are pointing your finger in the wrong place though.

The government make 23% vat on every pint.

Staff are payed maybe €12-€13 an hour.

Employers prsi

Employees prsi

Holiday pay

Sick pay

Commercial rates

High insurance rates

Then if the owner wants to pay himself a wage he pays 50% on what's left.

Similar goes for corner shops, coffee shops, gyms etc. etc.

That's what small businesses are up against. People like you who moan about everything clearly have no idea of reality.

Edit: Add electricity, card machines, bank charges, bin charges, broadband, IMRO etc. etc.

The list of costs is endless.

Glebee

Alot of pubs not going to survive 2023 thats for sure.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245044#Comment_120245044

I'm amazed at how many were still standing after lockdown. Expected 18 months of closures to drown a lot of them in debtn.

Glebee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245109#Comment_120245109

They were getting payment from government during lockdown so some were actually making money.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245000#Comment_120245000

There seems to be a common misconception that 23% of every pint goes to the Government.

This is not how VAT works. The amount that's actually paid is 23% of total sales minus the amount of vat the publican paid out on goods and services to run the business, so in reality what % of a pint is VAT is a lot less than what publicans or Vintners spokespeople like to say it is.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245267#Comment_120245267

What % of it is vat is it then please.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245336#Comment_120245336

Who knows. Every business is different, but any 'cost' that attracts VAT is redeemable against the final total, so what it isn't is 23%.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245257#Comment_120245257

Ah yeah, remember stories about how those who did best out of the scheme were ones who were unprofitable in normal times..

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245468#Comment_120245468

Isn't 23% added by the landlord, so using round numbers let's say that the price of a pint is 12.30 that means that 23% has been added by the publican: 100% + 23% = 123%

Divide 12.30 by 123 and multiply by 23 you get the VAT: 2.30

Or just divide by 6 for a rough approximate.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244599#Comment_120244599

If people care then they will create a market. So the market will never disappear but it will probably shrink to a much smaller size than it is now. Pubs closing means fewer pubs can supply the market.

If pubs are an important tourist attraction then maybe we need to subsidise them with taxpayer money. Not sure I'd say it's a great use of public money but you could make the case if you think it's worth it. Otherwise I'd say let supply and demand sort it out.

People with the money and desire to go to the pub will keep them afloat. I used to go to the pub 3 or 4 tines a month. Friday pints most Fridays plus another pub trip. Then covid happened and I got to really enjoy hosting friends for bbqs in the garden. Having mates around for a day for the 6n next Saturday.

Post covid, pubs are just so expensive compared to the cost of having the lads around for the day. I can make food for the day and buy my own booze and everyone brings their own booze for a fraction of thr money we'd spend on a day in the pub.

It seems lots of people have made similar decisions to stay away from the pub. That’s just supply and demand.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245817#Comment_120245817

Yes the business just adds on 23% vat at the end and collects it on behalf of the government.

Supplier invoiced vat along the way is paid then reclaimed so effectively zero.

I'm not sure why people think vat is less than 23%

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245817#Comment_120245817

Yes you have paid 2.30 in VAT, but that doesn't mean the publican hands all of that to revenue. In order to serve you that pint, he has paid VAT on the keg that contained it, the electricity to cool it while allowing you to see it while you drink it, the heating to keep you warm while you do so, the supply of the match on the tv that you're watching, the products that keep the toilet and you clean, the uniform he wears to look the part.

He can deduct all of that VAT from all of his collective 2.30s, so it's simply wrong to say that the publican has to pay all of it to Government on top of all his other bills. Every party involved in the production and service of your pint all pay a part of that 2.30.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246120#Comment_120246120

He can claim back the VAT on all those items though,he only pays VAT on sales I believe is the jizz.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246120#Comment_120246120

Yes, VAT is a consumer tax so the last person to use the product along the supply chain pays the tax, if a pint costs a publican 5 before vat, then he would pay 1.15 to his supplier and that is offset against the 2.30 he would have to pay to revenue.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244422#Comment_120244422

it is crazy expensive but plenty of tourists love it and ckme back time and time again.

live music, no cover charge. totally rammed and a great place to meet peolple from all over the world.

its mobbed from lunchtime.

the model works.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246239#Comment_120246239

I think it's a sales tax. Added at each stage wholesale,retail etc. They can claim back vat on anything related to the running of the business though I believe.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245860#Comment_120245860

One lasting memory of late-2020 was all those pictures of shebeens on AGS's Twitter feed. It was right up there with 1920's New York with more effort than many legitimate (pre-Covid) pubs.. 😆

The Dublin lockdown was so long that I would not be surprised if pub culture is now completely dead for teenagers.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246309#Comment_120246309

People from all over the world except Ireland.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246713#Comment_120246713

It's not, my local attracts a college crowd and there's always a group of them in every second it's open. I don't know where they go for nights out anymore, but considering I often have to walk to work at 5am through the city centre, they're definitely drinking somewhere.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246713#Comment_120246713

There's as many pubs open in Dublin now as there was in 2019. Some closures, but also some new. Didn't really have any long term impact.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246750#Comment_120246750

I left Dublin mid-2021 when things still looked pretty grim so happy for ye to correct me. I'm London now and basically never see anyone out who is not at least mid-20s.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246728#Comment_120246728

true. But people from all over the world. nonetheless.

Tourists enjoy that experience.

I am not condoning the pricing, dont get me wrong. But they can charge it and keep people coming back.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246771#Comment_120246771

I used to work in tourism and hospitality, if people were looking for somewhere to go for an hour between the castle and the storehouse I would absolutely send them to temple bar, it is a tourist trap but it's one they want to get trapped in. I can almost justify the price considering the majority sit over 1 pint for 90 minutes.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246782#Comment_120246782

Mid-afternoon and someone perhaps after a bite then yes, but anyone who has ever been there circa 10pm on a weekend and actually wants to go back clearly has far more money than sense. And in most cases it is not the money side of the equation holding up.

Geuze

5.00 pint

23% VAT is 93.5 cent

Excise is 22.55 per 100 L per % alcohol

So excise is 22.55 cent per litre per %

So excise is 53.8 cent per 4.2% pint

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

Excise hasn't changed in years.

Total tax on a 5.00 pint is 1.47, or 29.5% of the price of the pint.

This share has been falling.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158808#Comment_120158808

A local in my village has the dodgy box already in, and 2 pints and change from a tenner

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120246713#Comment_120246713

What teenager could afford to drink in Dublin pubs?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245860#Comment_120245860

That's all nice if you have the space to invite the mates around on a (semi) regular basis. Or a garden/yard in which to have a cook out too. But a lot of people don't have that, or another half/kids that would be ok with it either. A lot of folk live in situations where it's just not possible or they live in flats with practical strangers.

In any case, sure, having the lads around for a few cans, etc can be fun and, yes, a lot cheaper than going down the pub, especially in recent times with all the price gouging that's been going on. I don't think anyone is going to argue against that.

I suppose I'm just spoilt where I live as we have about three great family run local boozers with a number of regulars from the area that enjoy going to them. I really like going for a pint in them and it would be a very great shame if they were to disappear. But rising costs (which as said earlier never go back down) will eventually force me out of them, or at least make it a much less regular occurrence.

As for subsidising boozers, I don't think you'll get many people agreeing to that. 😁

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247255#Comment_120247255

So if we're not subsidising pubs, then it's a matter of supply matching demand. I used to go to the pub about 4 times a month, now it's about 4 times a year. But I have the benefit of a decent sized setting room but nothing flash, and a very small back garden, and a partner who enjoys the craic of having friends around as much as I do. Others will have fewer choices so they'll create demand for pubs instead.

It's just a matter of finding a balance of supply and demand. And I think a few more pubs will need to close before we find that balance.

yourdeadwright

If Irish pubs die we will have a huge loss in Tourism ,

Watering holes in the States,Canada main land Europe don't have patch on Irish , There is something quite special about a packed Irish pub , England is the only place that comes close & its just not the same,

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247925#Comment_120247925

It's a bit dramatic to think they will die out completely. There will always be some demand. They're just becoming too expensive for lots of normal people so the numbers of pubs might been to fall a bit more.

But I can't see any reason why they would all die out in the tourist areas.