Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896513#Comment_121896513

Erm , no.

Elon doesn't need the media to show him up as a crackpot. He doesn't that publicly himself on the most far reaching 'media' platform (which he owns)

There's a big push be some to close your eyes and ears and not read or listen to what musk puts in text with his own fingers or says in interviews which he again publishes on his own platform.

Nothing to do with the big bad media. Musk is just a bad egg. The worst kind a very wealthy one with alot of clout and a platform to do it on. Emperors clothes...

But your boiling it down to people being irrational and only taking snippets of what some news org has constructed? Nah man. Sorry.

listermint

Note he's even getting heavily involved in Irish politics. So the notion we should just ignore him as being over seas and not to bother about him is nonsense. The whole I don't read twitter is ostrich stuff.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896491#Comment_121896491

It hurt me that you actually had to type that after all that has been said already.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896534#Comment_121896534

You know whataboutery is a defence , right ? It pains me to have to point that out.

Il give you an example of conviction. If the BYD ceo was engaging in right wing rethoric, spreading lies on major platforms and engaging himself in Ireland social and policitical policies in high public manner by **** would I have bought one.

That's the rub. And you seem to hate that ... mad ain't it.? Pains me to have to write that.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896643#Comment_121896643

Yes, a defence of a car choice, not of Musk. Your posts are so dishonest in the way they deliberately misrepresent the point that's being made.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896775#Comment_121896775

There's a beautiful irony here in you calling someone dishonest. Only a few posts ago you said there's no one here defending musk.

Let me give you a playback.

Poster A "musk isn't a good person he's doing alot of bad work in the US and is pushing ultra right wing ideology"

Poster B response "but what about volkswagen, they helped the Germans in world war 2"

I mean if you're going to call someone dishonest let's start with some self reflection, there's no basis for saying musk isn't being defended in this thread when the above is the quantity of the leveled responses when actually factual information of Musk is raised.

On that basis I have to call you out. Don't sling names around my friend.

Evidently you drive a Tesla (I've no idea) but it's clear from your bug bear you do and you're talking it personally when someone (anyone) attacks its CEO for being right wing puppet head.

You really shouldn't take it personally when someone factually gives out about someone you don't know nor ever will...

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897106#Comment_121897106

There you go again misrepresenting what I said. Keep it up you're just proving the point.

What names did I sling? I said your posts were dishonest.

The last time we engaged on this thread you accused me of bigotry against the entire Chinese nation, another blatent dishonest post.

And again at the end of the last post you start going on about me defending Musk when not once here have I done that. Why do that? Debate with facts and honesty or don't bother at all.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897397#Comment_121897397

You called me dishonest. Simple

Bigotry against the Chinese? Prove it.

Swirling around moving goal posts horse and calling people names. Uncool

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896491#Comment_121896491

Sorry Gumbo, I think he's done more than his fair share as the leader of Tesla. And I do dislike the cancel culture and rewriting the history and the snowflakiness that is going on at the moment, and I actually think that is important to have people llke him that are ready to defend physical reality of the world we are in. It's really quite tragic when a successful person is cancelled by an angry mob when he is not agreeing with "The Truth" and/or not handing over all his money to the Socialists. Do we really want to live in a world where you can't voice your opinions and have public discussion about topics that you feel are wrong? Not going well for the Russians in the freedom of speech front at the moment. Is this what we want?

And the company he leads did start the EV revolution in fairness by bringing the revolutionary Model S in the market, and I think many people still hold crudge against him for demise of V6-V12. So I actually think that he has done well as a creative and visionary human being. At the same time I do feel like that he is running out of steam a bit as far as Tesla is concerned and there is a limit of how distracted he can be there are so many focus points and companies to micromanage. So perhaps there is a small bit of truth about the "out". But for the good for nothings saying that he's useless and an idiot I really don't get.

cunnifferous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897503#Comment_121897503

God when did this American culture war gibberish make it over to these shores. 'Visionary human being' that is some level of hero worship.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897503#Comment_121897503

Angry mob check.

Truth check

Cancel culture check.

Be draining the swamp next..

Nothing more gullible than lauding billionaires as being the face of the common man wha. He's out there doing it for all of us...

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896355#Comment_121896355

Maybe, we'll see

You could say the US truck market is saturated already with choices, and given there's already some very good options from Ford and Rivian they don't have the same no competition environment they had with the Model 3

I agree that compact cars don't seem to be as popular over there, but to some extent that's because many dealerships just don't sell them

The Golf always did well enough, as did other compact models

It's mostly the same problem as here, car manufacturers want to sell SUVs because they're generally more profitable and so push them harder with advertising

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896404#Comment_121896404

Yeah I'm not going to provide a table of references with every post. If that's an expectation now then I'm happy to back a motion to add it to the charter for all users

Yes, some of what he says I agree with, his views on carbon taxes for example

Other things I strongly disagree with, like his view that "freedom of speech" entitles every twitter user to post whatever hateful thing comes into their head without restraint

Anyway, believe it or not this thread wasn't supposed to be a debate on Elon's politics, going back to my OP:

DISCLAIMER: This is not a discussion of Elon Musk's political views or opinions, but rather their effect on Tesla. I'm happy to debate politics over on the politics forum, but this is a discussion about Tesla and how their future is (or isn't) tied to Elon's

So I'm happy to agree to disagree on politics, but let's hear some viewpoints on whether he's earning his generous salary at Tesla

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897776#Comment_121897776

Evidently not. They're currently the worst performing stock this year in the S&P stocks. Where all off the top rated tech stocks have experience various degrees of large growth.

It seems the market is no longer buying the long game fsd speel and has now considered revenues need examining.

Rudderless company under his tenure for the last 2 years.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897880#Comment_121897880

Funny you mention the stock actually, I got €30 free Tesla stock on Trade Republic a few months back as part of the referral system on there.

It’s down 38% at the moment. I also got Amazon, apple, Nike and Alphabet (I’ve no idea what alphabet are tbh). They are all down except for Amazon, that’s up 15%.

Tesla by far the worse drop. The others are down between 1-7%.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897958#Comment_121897958

Looks like real people are actually really talking about it now.

Not just listermint on boards..

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-crash-downgrade-elon-musk-leadership-ross-gerber-2024-3

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897991#Comment_121897991

Hasn't Gerber been going after Musk for years? Pretty sure he's tried to lead a few shareholder revolts

Not saying he's right or wrong, but Tesla's been through many trials and Elon has managed to stay at the helm throughout

I'll believe he's getting the boot when he's gotten the boot

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898072#Comment_121898072

Perhaps.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/14/investing/tesla-growth-stock-elon-musk/index.html

"Growth company with no growth"

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897629#Comment_121897629

Too many years spent in multinationals, I guess, and English is not my mother tongue. Maybe we could continue in some other language of your choice.

Not many company CTOs have managed to create two successful multi-billion businesses that actually manufacture some groundbreaking (sometimes unplanned way) products and sent their products to solar orbit. Sounds visionary enough to me compared to a typical peer of his.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898167#Comment_121898167

Neither did he. Let's cut that stuff out. He acquired these pre existing businesses. He didn't manufacture anything so enough of the revisionist eulogy.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897632#Comment_121897632

Truth sometimes hurts, but perhaps you would rather voice your opinions Russian style?

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898171#Comment_121898171

But he had pretty good hand leading the companies bringing the products that didn't exist before in an usable form in the market.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898175#Comment_121898175

No idea what you are on about there buddy.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897503#Comment_121897503

I can't believe someone would write such Americanised nonsense. Cancel culture...Snowflakes....SOCIALISTS....TRUTH....

Do you not see that "cancel culture" is used to dismiss and discredit legitimate criticism of one's actions, painting any challenge as an attempt to erase a person? True accountability for one's actions isn't the same as "canceling". If people disagree with Musk's actions, does that automatically make them a socialist snowflake cancel culture mob? Isn't that the same kind of silencing you claim to oppose?

Your point on mobs of Socialists wanting Musk or other Billionaires to handover all their wealth is gross exaggeration. Advocating for proportionally fair taxation and wealth distribution isn't automatically socialism.

"Defending physical reality"... Seriously? What "physical reality" is Musk protecting? Very vague statement.

Your point on freedom of speech for the Russians..... Obviously you realise the Russia government heavily censors those who are critical those in power. Look at what Musk(self proclaimed free speech absolutist) does to those who disagrees or criticises his inflammatory statements on twitter, he censors them. The only thing he wants is the absolute ability to say whatever he wants without consequences. He surrounds himself with yes men in his various companies and anyone who opposes him is immediately fired or relegated to the sidelines.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898072#Comment_121898072

That's why Musk wants more voting power because he fears the growing sentiment among shareholders will revolt due to his performance and vote him out if he totally goes off the rails or continues to spend much of his time managing other businesses.

prawnsambo

I always laugh at Irish people complaining about 'cancel culture'. We invented it. Look up the origin of the word 'Boycott'.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898896#Comment_121898896

They're not the same thing though. Boycotts typically target companies or orgs as a response to verifiable ongoing actions(unethical practices or policies), usually there is a chance for resolution. Whereas cancel culture focuses on individuals with the aim to damage reputation or careers due to current or past actions regardless of whether the target apologises or not.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898896#Comment_121898896

I always laugh when people (particularly on this site) complain about freedom of speech being restricted

There's probably never been a time in history when people were more free to say whatever they want

Even in countries with highly censored news, many people use messaging apps like Telegram to get around those restrictions

Last year I was reading a thread about pirate radio, and I had to stop for a moment to think about how crazy the concept sounded today.

The idea that the only way to bring non RTE approved news or music to people was to rig up a transmitter from bits you bought from the hardware shop and broadcast from the Wicklow mountains hoping you didn't get arrested

Nowadays, you just fire whatever thought comes into your head out onto whatever platform takes your fancy

So when people complain about having their posts flagged or taken down, I can't help but roll my eyes. No, it isn't an attempt to restrict freedom of speech or silence honest debate. It's almost always because that person said something pretty horrible, which in no way added any useful viewpoints to a discussion and it's entirely appropriate to take down their posts

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898858#Comment_121898858

Yeah I think that's quite likely part of his motivation, he might also be looking for more of a reserve of quick cash in case he decides to buy another company or inject some money into his various other ventures

The way he went about it was pretty hilarious, basically saying he'd redirect Tesla's AI research in xAI, which is effectively a competitor he owns.

So first off you've a man who is CEO of two companies which are at least partly competitors and there doesn't seem to be any sort of conflict of interest restrictions placed on him

Pretty sure the board of Boeing would have some concerns if the CEO was also CEO of Airbus. They'd certainly have some concerns if that person threatened to give all Boeings important trade secrets to Airbus if they didn't give him a controlling share of the company

So why does Elon Musk get away with it? Simple, because he's Elon Musk, and the Tesla board swear fealty to him above all others

Now, I'm going to be honest and say that I don't really care if Elon gets the boot as CEO or not. I've no skin in the game either way, he isn't the reason I don't want a Tesla, but him leaving won't make me go out and buy one either

I would get a sense of smug satisfaction from seeing him being called out for his BS, but that's just like watching some real life drama being played out

I do want to see Tesla succeed, they are responsible for bringing EVs to the point where they are today and continue to drive things forward. It's likely without Tesla the most advanced EV on the road today would be the Nissan Leaf 24kWh

However, it's my considered opinion that the company would be better off without Elon Musk having an active hand in the day to day running of the place. I'm fully aware that an opinion is all it is, and I welcome all reasonable debate on the topic

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121898979#Comment_121898979

I mean I'd call that just another form of boycott. It's a bunch of people turning around and saying "hey, we are the people who usually buy stuff from<insert company name> we aren't going to buy stuff from them while they continue to have a relationship with <insert **** name>"

Companies are generally against the idea of making less money so if they think <insert **** name> is an obstacle to that then they get dumped

Plenty of other companies have leaned into controversy when they thought it benefitted them. Rockstar games didn't exactly dial back the violence in Grand Theft Auto despite it getting a lot of heat, largely because they knew their audience weren't the ones complaining

So no, cancel culture isn't an attempt to ruin someone's reputation, it's an audience rejecting a personality they previously liked for whatever reason