Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla?

Gumbo

People are 100% entitled to spend their money on whatever they want. But when you see weird associations of “I’m not driving a Tesla because I don’t like Musk” , but I’ll drive a Chinese car that supports that regime or a VW despite their customer service and fraud convictions and suspicious beginning's, it reminds me of this……

I for one am glad no CEO comes as an optional extra in any of my cars.

The burning question of the thread is the same though, and the answer has to be no based on worldwide sales.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893328#Comment_121893328

We've moved on from the tenious and not linear relationship of every single Chinese manufacturer to their entire government. It was a silly argument then and it's still silly now.

The Chinese government isn't making any manufacturer make a vanity 4x4 and pissing profits up the wall at a whim

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893338#Comment_121893338

Equally, people should move on from the tesla/musk association. It’s Private business, private money.

The company can do what they want with it. It pisses a few people off in Ireland is irrelevant tbh. They can stick to the Chinese cars, tech etc that they are all built from. Tesla included.

We will see the outcome from the EU tariff implications onto Chinese manufacturers shortly I suppose.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893361#Comment_121893361

No you don't get to wipe away his direct involvement in the decisions plans and designs. It's simply not the same at all.

He is directly involved and was central to the failed cybertruck , I think we can refer to it as that now.

The push to defend him personally is still the weirdest part...

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893398#Comment_121893398

I wouldn’t defend him personally but I do find the weirdest that people constantly post about why they won’t buy a Tesla because of him but will buy a Chinese brand, a VW with their past, a Merc with their past etc

the_amazing_raisin

Grabs popcorn...

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121892998#Comment_121892998

You must be incredibly insecure to let the opinions of others influence your purchasing decisions. Buy/don't buy a Tesla if you want, but to not get one because you feel others will judge you is strange. Anyone that judges someone based on what car they drive is a moron and best ignored.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893338#Comment_121893338

The Chinese state subsidising the likes of BYD to the tune of billions is certainly not tenious.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893594#Comment_121893594

Tesla makes most, if not all of its profits from US government subsidies.

sk8board

Any of you who thinks the notion of the ‘Tesla driver’ is not a thing, and isn’t cultivated by the association to Musk, is living in an alterior universe.

many of us just don’t want to be that persona.

lots of people WE ALL know tell us that they won’t have a Tesla because of that association.

the German stuff from WW2 or byd getting Chinese gov funding misses the point - it’s the connection to a singular individual that we all relate to, positively and negatively. No other car manufacturer has such an individual.

this isn’t a decision about which brand of cereal to buy - it’s a €100k decision for 2 cars, and Musks association with Tesla was part of our decision. That’s literally all I’m saying (and it’s the title of the thread!)

Bobson Dugnutt

He certainly isn’t helping these days. He’s a total lunatic and comes across as an obnoxious prick as well.

I think increased competition from more established brands, a sense of “trough of disillusionment” around EVs in general, the shoddy build quality of some Tesla’s, and the cybertruck fiasco don’t help either .

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893594#Comment_121893594

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893607#Comment_121893607

This is something of a sticking point between the EU, US and China at the moment

The latter two are becoming more and more protectionist to the expense of the EU which is still very much anchored in free trade

To some degree, I've no sympathy for most EU based manufacturers and policy makers (not just in the auto industry). They've been sitting on their hands for the last 15 years thinking they had a monopoly on brain cells and that China would stick to low cost manufacturing forever and never develop their own products and sell them into the EU market

However I do believe in the concept of a level playing field, and China and the US are effectively forcing out foreign manufacturers but throw a tantrum whenever they get called out on it or another country blocks import of their products

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893657#Comment_121893657

I find Shane Coleman obnoxious in the mornings it doesn't stop me listening to Newstalk.

Where's the total lunatic coming from though, what's he done to be classed as one? I see someone fighting for free speech, childrens rights, against uncontrolled immigration, anti government propaganda etc.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893676#Comment_121893676

Trade wars has almost zero similarity to do with the Musk association with Tesla hampering Joe Public’s car buying decision

having Elon musk in the news on a daily basis for many years forces us all to have an opinion, or a bias, one way or the other - it’s how he makes us ‘feel’.

i don’t think many people have a particular feeling about company associations with governments, or nazis or whatever.

again - that’s the title of the thread. I’m simply suggesting that this association exists, and the longer it goes on, the harder it will be for Tesla to grow its sales (they’re a publicly traded company, and musk has a legal fiduciary duty)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893657#Comment_121893657

I reckon your first line captures it all, he isn't helping

If you're the board of a company (and you aren't members of the church of Elon) then you'd be expecting your global celebrity CEO who is taking home a salary package worth billions to be adding some significant value to the company

While Elon probably isn't costing Tesla a load of sales, he isn't exactly helping either from the looks of things

To put it a different way, if Tesla fired Elon tomorrow and replaced him with one of the bland dime a dozen CEOs who seem to run every other company, would that cost Tesla any business?

Yeah I'm sure there'd be something of a mass sell off from his acolytes, but I doubt overall sales figures would drop

So in theory if they got a cheaper CEO it would be an overall saving for the company

Woodie40

Musk is presently associated with the company, bringing up associations that other brands have had in the last century is not valid.

He definitely harms the brand, we would not want to be associated with or line the pockets of such a toxic individual.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893698#Comment_121893698

Hey you should know the thread title and what's being discussed have a dubious connection at the best of times 😉

As I said, I think the majority of customers seem to be able to mentally separate Tesla and Elon. But there's no doubt that the association is there and for some people it's enough to stop them buying

However it's worth asking the question of how many of those people who swear off Tesla because of Elon Musk would have actually bought a Tesla otherwise

It's definitely a non zero number, but I'm not convinced it's a big enough cohort to affect sales significantly

For my own viewpoint, I don't like Elon and really never have. Always reckoned he was more of a salesman dressed as an engineer

I also don't want to buy a Tesla, but if Elon got fired tomorrow I still wouldn't want one. I just don't like the Tesla styling and the selling points of them don't interest me

So for me Elon's antics don't hurt Tesla because I wouldn't have been a customer anyway

I suppose it'd be interesting to see if Tesla made a car I really like and Elon was still in charge, would I buy it then...🤔

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893646#Comment_121893646

The fact you care about that is sad. I'm secure enough and couldn't give a shïte what you or anyone else thinks about my choice of car, it's just a car. Anyone that does needs to grow up.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893728#Comment_121893728

equally, I wouldn’t be caught near an Audi anymore. It’s disgusting what they done in the past.

“German car giant Audi’s predecessor company used slave laborers from concentration camps during World War II on a massive scale, a new report has found.

An historical investigation commissioned by the company — the last German auto company to do so, preceded by Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW — found that when Audi was operating under the name Auto Union, it struck a deal with the SS, by which more than 3,700 inmates from Nazi concentration camps were put to work for the company.”

Woodie40

We are discussing an individual.

The foundation of this state was built on violence. Thankfully we have moved on, as has Germany, unlike the individual we are discussing and his disgusting viewpoints.

The past is the past, one lives in the present

prawnsambo

Whether you like Musk or not, it's absolutely true that he has damaged the brand through his methods. His modus operandi is to strip out processes down to the bare bone and then break test everything. This isn't an analytical approach and almost seems childish. This is very apparent in what he's done with Twitter and will eventually crash that company.

The idea is to cut costs to the bone, but it inevitably will crash into the law of unintended consequences; something that's happening with Twitter (EU Commission et al). The shoddy build quality is also evidence of this approach. He's also mercurial. Doing things on a whim might be cute, but really isn't a good thing in a car manufacturer. The Cybertruck is an example of this whimsical approach. That thing looks like it was designed by a child. Maybe it was.

But probably the thing that has the most capacity to damage the company is how Musk finances his lifestyle and his purchase of Twitter and other toys. In order to avoid income tax, he takes his pay in the form of Tesla shares which he then leverages with his bankers to get loans (this isn't unusual btw, billionaires innit) which he then uses to live off. No income, no tax. But at some stage in the long run, the piper will have to be paid. However the more pressing issue is what happens if Twitter goes tits up. Morgan Stanley will want their money back and the only way he can do that is to sell Tesla stock. What then happens to Tesla (and Musk) could be very interesting.

TL;DR: Whimsy is fun, but I won't drive a car subject to its vagaries.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893821#Comment_121893821

And there are people that will not vote Sinn Fein based on their past.

One cannot forget the past when shaping the future.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893911#Comment_121893911

To my earlier point, would you buy a Tesla if the company was run by one of the other generic CEOs who end up in charge or large companies?

If yes, then Elon has personally cost the company a sale and this hurt the company

If no, then it could be argued he hasn't caused any real brand damage

Your points are all valid btw, but it's important to frame them in the context of the question

Woodie40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893931#Comment_121893931

Sinn Fein are not the only party with a violent past. Thankfully we have moved on and all parties PRESENTLY are pursuing peace.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893939#Comment_121893939

to the favourable, he

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893797#Comment_121893797

I never said I care about you or your car - I care about my own principles and opinion of this ‘individual’ in making a decision about 2x €50k cars.

chill. Your car can beat mine at the lights something something something

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893939#Comment_121893939

I thought my TL;DR made that clear, but to be clear, no to Musk for the reasons stated.

Also I'd challenge the 'generic' adjective unless it just means uncontroversial. Some very clever people in charge of these companies, but more importantly, some very good teams. Something I understand Musk doesn't do very well.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893981#Comment_121893981

You said you care about other people judging you based on your car choice.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893931#Comment_121893931

We're going way OT here, but Sinn Fein's 'activities' lie well within my lifetime. Not going to forget that quickly.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894000#Comment_121894000

Genuinely never said I care about this - I care about my own principles, and about any of my hard-earned euros lining the pocket of someone who I personally believe is the most awful individual. Buying a Tesla benefits Elon Musk in some tiny way.

its a decision about principles, not some sort of vanity debate about the car people drive.

If this was about opinions of other people’s car choices, we’d be debating why literally thousands of Irish car buyers in the past 15months bought a Yaris Cross!

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894048#Comment_121894048

Same for VW’s fraud, diesel gate and Mercs treatment of bus owners throughout Europe.

Most young people know nothing of it. People move on as highlighted on this thread. People cop on. In time musk will be forgotten about or nobody will care about the ceo of a company appliance they are buying.