Qatar World Cup

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862374#Comment_119862374

It's too hard to avoid Chinese products. Chances are that you're using far far more Chinese stuff than you realise. There's even a 1 in 3 chance that your mattress was made in China.

It's all well and good saying I'll avoid Chinese products because I don't agree with the regime but the reality is that, whether or not you like it, it's basically impossible to have any standard of life here in Ireland without using something Made In China.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862500#Comment_119862500

I don't disagree at all. I don't think that this absolves us of the impact that reliance on Chinese goods has in their country (us being most of the Western World in this instanace).

@One eyed Jack I'm sorry, I'm not quite following your last post. My point is that we are responsible for the consequences of our actions. At a societal level, that would include the fact our over-reliance on goods manufactured in China helps prop up the Chinese economy which has the effect of helping to keep their regime in power. As individuals there's not a lot we can do about it bar trying to minimise our own contribution to that demand.

Choosing to visit or work in countries with a record of human rights abuses, however, is extremely easily avoided.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862584#Comment_119862584

It’s the idea that you’re morally superior to others based on a standard that’s entirely of your own preferences, as opposed to the idea that there’s an agreed standard between you and the person who you’re condemning.

Of course we’re all responsible for our actions, but what’s just as important is intent. I don’t buy a phone or travel to work in shìtty countries because I support their regimes or want to contribute to those regimes. I buy a particular phone or any product because I like the product, or I go to work in a shìtty country because there are ancillary benefits or whatever.

All you’re doing is making out that you feel guilty about your contribution to the issues you’ve raised, so we should all feel guilty because we’re all doing the same thing as you’re doing. But someone else comes along and says you shouldn’t be doing that either, meaning they’re even more morally superior to you. To take that sort of virtue signaling behaviour to it’s logical conclusion would mean we would have to reduce our standard of living to be at the same standard as some backward society so that we’re not exploiting them.

Some people ARE willing to go that far, but they’re generally the type of idiot who thinks it’s a good idea to superglue their face to a road to make their point -

https://youtu.be/m0_Ty38JcgI

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861871#Comment_119861871

Ah ok, so the human rights abuses experienced in the manufacturing process of your phone, tv, clothes, cars and everything else are acceptable because they’re necessary for you to enjoy the life you live.

That’s fucked up.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862773#Comment_119862773

That’s an unfair misrepresentation of what @Sleepy is saying. He’s saying that we’re all guilty of wrongdoing, he’s not saying anything is acceptable.

He’s also saying that according to his standards, he has an excuse to justify his actions, whereas anyone else can’t also use the same excuse to justify their actions, because it’s different, somehow.

Hoboo

We are all guilty that’s for sure, but they clearly accept there is collateral damage, so to speak, for them to live their life to the standard they wish. That’s silently saying it is acceptable. Unfortunate yes, but they accept that as just the way it is.

I’m merely pointing out the double standards of finger wagging at one group because its the latest thing to be outraged at whilst contributing to even worse atrocities on a daily basis. It’s complete nonsense.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862851#Comment_119862851

In reality though, nobody is guilty of any wrongdoing because of any association made by people accusing them of wrongdoing. That’s why I wouldn’t even be interested in pointing out anyone’s hypocrisy as though I have anything myself to feel ashamed of and our behaviour makes us equally guilty. If they want to carry that guilt, it’s entirely their own business and their responsibility to address it to assauge their own guilt rather than trying to minimise or mitigate it by accusing others of the same wrongdoing or making excuses for themselves.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862500#Comment_119862500

Most mattresses sold in Ireland are made in Ireland. Even shipping them from EU or UK is too expensive.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862789#Comment_119862789

Saying he's being misrepresented, then going on yourself to misrespresent him. *golf clap*

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119861752#Comment_119861752

Seriously what?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863792#Comment_119863792

How did I misrepresent what @Sleepy is arguing? He’s not trying to argue that what he’s doing isn’t wrong, he’s arguing that anyone else doing the same thing is just as guilty of wrongdoing as he is.

The underlying premise of the argument is fundamentally flawed. What’s worse is attempting to justify his own breaches of his principles by claiming he does it out of necessity.

That doesn’t make his actions any more excusable to the next moral crusader who takes their self-deprivation and martyrdom to the next level in order to maintain they are morally superior to everyone else beneath them, based upon a standard which suits them which other people don’t recognise as having any legitimacy or authority whatsoever.

Hotblack Desiato

This bit:

He’s also saying that according to his standards, he has an excuse to justify his actions, whereas anyone else can’t also use the same excuse to justify their actions, because it’s different, somehow.

Poor effort.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119863866#Comment_119863866

No poor effort at all. What I was saying is that @Sleepy can justify his actions to himself, then by that same standard so should anyone else be able to do the same thing, rendering his condemnation meaningless. The only reason it’s not is because Sleepy applies a different standard to himself. That doesn’t explain why his actions are any different, they just are, somehow.

The real reason is of course because Sleepy wants to condemn anyone going to the World Cup as supporting ideas and holding values which they do not. It’s like saying to anyone “Well if you REALLY cared about human rights abuses, you wouldn’t do this, that or the other”. It’s entirely possible for people to go to the World Cup for whatever their reasons are, while simultaneously holding the belief that Qatar has an appalling Human Rights record. To suggest otherwise is just silly and self-serving.

Hotblack Desiato

The only reason it’s not is because Sleepy applies a different standard to himself.

You keep saying this. His posts do not bear this claim out.

It’s entirely possible for people to go to the World Cup for whatever their reasons are, while simultaneously holding the belief that Qatar has an appalling Human Rights record.

Of course it is possible. Gross hypocrisy is second nature to them.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864223#Comment_119864223

You may have missed the earlier posts where he justifies things like buying a phone or having to travel to these countries for work, out of necessity - a justification which is entirely unnecessary IMO, because I don’t care to judge him for doing so, because I don’t make the same associations he does in the first place because he feels guilty about it, and we’re all guilty of wrongdoing.

As for the idea of pointing out anyone’s hypocrisy, I’ve always found that trying to reason with people generally has a more positive and productive outcome than attempting condemnation and humiliation which doesn’t convince anyone of anything.

I guess YMMV.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857148#Comment_119857148

Brewdog is not sold in Qatar.

There is only one alcohol company - QDC, the state monopoly.

Everyone, hotels and individuals must buy through the state monopoly.

QDC does not sell Brewdog, and the photo is a fake.

The words used by the spokesman are very odd. How do you sell beer indirectly?

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857168#Comment_119857168

Human Rights Watch has no presence in Qatar, they phone up people and stitch together a press release from unrelated quotes.

Dr Nasser Mohamed is Qatari by birth, but he lives in California

The only thing that the Qatari police do clamp down on heavily is prostitution. There is no desire to copy Dubai in that regard.

As for slaves, there certainly are people working in Qatar doing work that you would not do and for pay that you would not accept. But then you are one of the privileged minority in this world.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857320#Comment_119857320

Jeez, I'm really sorry if the truth offends your precocious faux morality.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860671#Comment_119860671

Do you understand the 6,500 number? Let me ask you three questions:

• over what timeframe;
• out of what population; and
• is that number higher or lower than would have been expected if these workers had stayed at home.

I'm happy to get into that analysis with you if you wish.

Gay people are not arrested in Qatar, that's just BS, there is probably no place in the world where you are more likely to see two men holding hands than the Arab world. The death penalty should be taken off the statute books, but that often takes time. In Ireland there was almost half a century between the last execution and the death penalty referendum.

The regime in Qatar is not repressive - it is not a liberal democracy for sure, but then neither is 90% of the world.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860724#Comment_119860724

Agree. If Europe is serious about its concerns over Qatar, boycott their gas.

Otherwise shut up and watch the footy;

Elmer Blooker

I can’t stand these football ‘experts’ who think they know everything about football but know sweet f a (sorry)

Having got that off my chest I’m backing Italy to win it and it goes without saying that Haaland will win the Golden Boot, I would expect Salah to net a few too.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864580#Comment_119864580

Brilliant :)

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864580#Comment_119864580

😁😁

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119862196#Comment_119862196

Hoping for a Qatar - Saudi Arabia final, would be fitting for this feast of football.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864349#Comment_119864349

If you are looking for Brewdog, The Shamrock tavern in Doha have Brewdog on their menu.

https://linktr.ee/shamrockdoha

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119865456#Comment_119865456

I'll go and check and report back.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866101#Comment_119866101

So you have your doubts on your previous declarations :)

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866175#Comment_119866175

It seems reasonable to check it out - and it is not inconvenient.

If I'm wrong, it is not the end of the world.

Northernlily

Beckham should be hammered over his support for it and acceptance of €150m of Qatar. England and US had two good honest bids for 2018 and 2022 and that's who they should have went to. Both countries effectively have the infrastructure in place. But brown envelopes filled with cash prevailed.

Beckham was on the bid committee alongside Prince William the **** traitor. But he stood in the queue for the Queen so that makes it alright. Man of the people my hole. Knowing how the Qatar bid was one he should be nowhere near it if he had any morals and that's before the human rights issues come into play.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119866803#Comment_119866803

Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't weighing the outcome of the world on any of your opinions.