Qatar World Cup

Royale with Cheese

The Guardian's Football Weekly podcast had a good interview a while back with someone who was sent to Qatar by the England Football Supporter's Association in order to get an idea of what the fan experience will be like over there, so this could be relayed to the England fans who are going. It's actually so bad it's laughable, starts at about 28 minutes:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/audio/2022/sep/22/the-nations-league-returns-and-what-fans-can-expect-in-qatar-football-weekly-extra-podcast

I have some sympathy for the Wales fans as they haven't qualified in so long and given the age profile of their top players it's unlikely they're going to qualify again anytime soon, but any fans from the likes of England or Germany who are planning on going over need their head checked.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878148#Comment_119878148

The Qatari Emir can "bristle" all he **** likes tbh. There's been unprecedented criticism of this world cup because it took unprecedented levels of corruption for it to be awarded in the first place.

I'm afraid you're lying to yourself as much as us in your claim that choosing to live and work in a country as an expat isn't both an expression of support for, and a contribution to, the regime in charge of that country. I understand why you'd want to do so but you can't compare yourself to the unskilled migrant workers forced to migrate to such a regime out of economic necessity. As a, clearly well-educated Irish citizen, you don't have that defence: you have the opportunity to ply your trade almost anywhere in the world. It may not pay as lucratively but, in reality, you're choosing to put your personal financial gain ahead of the basic human rights of women, the LGBT community and the low skilled migrant workers.

Qatar may not be the worst offender in the middle east when it comes to imposing medieval religious nonsense on it's population but that's no more valid a defence than saying that Dachau was better than Auschwitz or Treblinka.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880528#Comment_119880528

I find the outrage now all a bit false.

But surely all the outrage, including your own is false?

What do you really care about migrant workers in Qatar or any other workers from the developing world that work to make our western lifestyle better?

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878299#Comment_119878299

Why should Iran be kicked out exactly? For selling weapons to party involved in a war? Christ if we apply that there won't be many countries left in it.

ArmaniJeanss

The oft-repeated idea here that UEFA (or the individual FAs) could have told associations/players to boycott it is a bit naive.

Like I've seen La Liga mentioned by a few people - an association that was in a vote sharing pact with Qatar back at the time of the bids! The French FA, who would have been under constant pressure from the Elysee Palace not to rock the boat? Or the English FA who desperately need the world cup money to dig themselves out of their Wembley financial pit? And almost certainly some of the smaller UEFA associations would have broken rank anyway because they may not mind the disruption, like going to world cups and don't have as much of a problem with Qatar as the western countries.

As for telling players they can't travel - hell have we forgotten what happened during Covid when Argentinian players at Villa & Spurs were told by their clubs they couldn't travel to qualifers because they'd face quaratine and miss games when they returned? They just said that sod that and got on the plane anyway because playing for their countries is more important than missing a couple of club games.

All any 'boycott' would have done is put an unmendable schism in world football.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880576#Comment_119880576

Thats debatable - but its still a very negative message to send out to all other parts of the world, that the rest of the word plays second fiddle to the part that happens to be the whitest and wealthiest.

The top leagues are in Europe because Europe is the richest, not because Europe produces the best footballers.

Royale with Cheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880767#Comment_119880767

The tournament was scheduled to be held in June. As part of their bid Qatar said don't worry about the heat here, we'll air condition all the stadiums, it's no problem to hold a tournament here when the average high is 42 degrees. They win the bid, wait a couple of years for things to die down and then come out and say yeah it's too hot here in June, we're moving it to December. That should have been the tournament taken off them there and then, absolute farce.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880767#Comment_119880767

But isn't that the case with everything in the world, you have a hierarchy of wealth/quality/prestige whatever you want to call it.

It's like saying that playing the All Ireland final at 3:30pm on July Sunday sends out a negative message to the people interested in the junior league game in Cavan the same day.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880808#Comment_119880808

No its nothing like that.

And why do other hierarchies come into the World Cup, that doesnt make sense.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880802#Comment_119880802

Yeah I get that.

But the notion that the tournament has to be held in June, just because to hold it at any other time of the year is too much of a inconvenience for Europe.... really......just a little bit arrogant.

And how is it a farce - tournament is in November, doesnt mean the world has stopped.....this is one part of the anti-Qatar debate that is completely over the top.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880515#Comment_119880515

Firstly, publicity and facts are rarely connected.

Secondly, those fans were local residents who are cheering on England, the sponsored fans are fewer in number, they are coming from England - and they're not here yet.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880802#Comment_119880802

I don't think that's the way it happened at all (but open to being proven wrong).

As I understand it Qatar were always happy to stick with summer and the aircon stadiums, and it was the FIFA task force of 2014 who decided on the change. It's a crucial point really - if Qatar had suggested summer was no longer possible then you'd have your above case for moving it.

archfi

Is an After Hours World Cup thread allowed at all? I think a mod announced this should be the only one outside the soccer forum? 🤦‍♂️

The AH thread for the European Championship was good craic and football focused.

This one will be endless politicking and pearl clutching.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880871#Comment_119880871

Im not sure why you are arguing about the influences thing. Its not a secret.

I'm not saying that crowd were them but they do exist openly.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880900#Comment_119880900

Hopefully when the football actually starts we'll be back to 'is it goal difference or head to head?', 'what times the Brazil game?', 'who'll Spain play in the next round' and hating on England and Ronaldo. For the majority of the posts anyway.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880622#Comment_119880622

Just a couple of points:

1. I am not aware of any evidence (as opposed to allegations) of Qatari corruption in winning the World Cup - never mind any ranking table or scale that would suggest that such corruption was unprecedented;
2. In coming to Qatar I did not choose between personal financial gain and the rights of others - that is as absurd as saying that workers who stay in Ireland do so because of their support for those rights. The two are wholly unconnected - it just suits you (because you have no better points to make) to play the man and not the ball;
3. Most of the world (not just Qatar) does not subscribe, or only partly subscribes, to the values of western liberal democracies. You might think that these values are universal, but if the vast majority of the people in the world disagree with you, they clearly are not.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880846#Comment_119880846

Well it's a European game invented and run from Europe so why can't we have our traditions.

The Arabs are welcome to set up world cups for their own sports.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880928#Comment_119880928

Yup - I am looking forward to the football.

Sick and tired of all these media outlets talking out of both sides of their mouths. The time for objecting was years ago. Now its just bandwagon jumping.

"This world cup is tainted!!!!

.....but also!!

Visit our website for a player rating on all the leading squads!!"

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880613#Comment_119880613

I remember listening to that. Its absolutely hilarious especially the £65 a head hippy/crusty rave in the desert and none of the hotels showing the tournament.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880933#Comment_119880933

you chose to live and work in a country with reprehensible laws regarding lgbt rights, religious expression and workers rights because it paid well. and as the poster implies there was people who made the same arguments all over wartime Germany and in vichy France and the like.

just own it ffs

you might not think there is morality involved here. there is. in fact its probably worse than anything happening with the World Cup. the players are flying in for a few weeks and very few have defended it as staunchly as you. you live there permanently. you choose to make your bed in a dictatorship and theocracy that tramples upon human rights. there is nothing comparable here with Ireland, at all so stop with that absolute horseshit.

Most of the World does not subscribe...absolute bullshit. there is 70 out of 195 countries which criminalize lgbt people.

https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/

the point is quite simple none of these countries have hosted a World Cup til now. also you live in one.

you bat very hard for your adopted country. by doing so you basically condone LGBT abuses, migrant deaths etc. its very simple logic here

of course there is hypocrisy here. Saudi Arabia is a case in point. but geo politics is important as well.

Qatar is a nothing player in that regard, and should never have been indulged to this extent. but in the same vein PSG should be called out.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880781#Comment_119880781

Yeah they have form for that there was some tournament in America a couple of years back that Qatar played in and they hired 200 pissed up American students to pretend to be Qatari fans it was laughable.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880933#Comment_119880933

In choosing to go to Qatar you may not have made a conscious choice to place your financial gain above respecting the rights of others but in making the decision to go you did just that whether you care to admit it or not. It's fairly clear you're not going to admit that, and tbh, entirely understandable as to why you don't want to. It'd no doubt make it pretty hard to sleep at night.

Have you never heard of the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights? I don't know how long you've been in Qatar for and I'm sure they're probably not great at publicising it when they're in contravention of many aspects of it.

And honestly, human rights isn't a numbers game. It doesn't matter if a majority of the population believe that being misogynistic or homophobic is acceptable, their numbers don't change the fact that they're fundamentally wrong.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880900#Comment_119880900

There isn't even a thread on the Soccer forum.

That's how bad things have gone since the upgrade.

I know the soccer forum has been restricted access for decades now but since the upgrade it has disappeared off the main feed and the Sports category, so people like myself who have access but don't necessarily follow a team or a league just forget it's even there.

Pity really.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881069#Comment_119881069

I have heard of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights - it was written over 70 years ago by the WW2 victors, the two draftsmen were a French and a Canadian lawyer.

If it was written today, by drafters who reflected the full spectrum of humanity, it would be a very different document.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881089#Comment_119881089

jaysis taking issue with the declaration of human rights. framing it as written by the victors...as against what the Nazis or an imperial homicidal JApan? and anyway, you're ignoring the fundamental point of poster. many countries not involved in those original aspects or treaties respect the very same human rights. over 65 per cent of the World's nations respect LGBT rights.

here's the ones that don't - Afghanistan

Algeria

Antigua & Barbuda

Bangladesh

Barbados

Bhutan

Brunei

Burundi

Cameroon

Chad

Comoros

Cook Islands

Dominica

Egypt

Eritrea

Eswatini

Ethiopia

Gambia

Ghana

Grenada

Guinea

Guyana

Iran

Jamaica

Kenya

Kiribati

Kuwait

Lebanon

Liberia

Libya

Malawi

Malaysia

Maldives

Mauritania

Mauritius

Morocco

Myanmar

Namibia

Nigeria

Occupied Palestinian Territory (Gaza Strip)

Oman

Pakistan

Papua New Guinea

Qatar

Saint Kitts and Nevis

Saint Lucia

Saint Vincent and The Grenadines

Samoa

Saudi Arabia

Senegal

Sierra Leone

Singapore

Solomon Islands

Somalia

South Sudan

Sri Lanka

Sudan

Syria

Tanzania

Togo

Tonga

Tunisia

Turkmenistan

Tuvalu

Uganda

Uzbekistan

Yemen

Zambia

Zimbabwe

you think we should acquiesce to their ideas on human rights? you think we should give a **** how these backward countries shape any hypothetical new charter? considering the above are mostly all former colonies, the colonial masters do have a part to play in this. i agree some hypocrisy regards the above places and the shape they left them in. but the point here is living in them. i'd say the same if you chose to live in any of the above countries, and then defended the country and the morals of doing so.

i think you have full on Stockholm Syndrome.

you're beyond help.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880479#Comment_119880479

There was almost no uproar about Russia. A few murmurs about LGBT as usual, Crimea was hardly mentioned, Chechnya was most definitely not an issue and all the talk at the end was that Russia was a great host and everyone went home happy

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119864376#Comment_119864376

thats a figure you've just plucked from your hole. 90 per cent? thats a bogus figure. not all democracies fit into that liberal framework. look at the UK regarding constitution for example.

it doesn't matter what timeframe if that figure is the overall number. the world cup has been built in blood.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/qatar/local-laws-and-customs

gay people HVE been arrested etc. anecdotal evidence of you supposedly seeing gay people holding hands means nothing. its the law.

i'm afraid you're too far gone to actually have a reasonable discussion here.i'll take actual impartial NGO and government evidence and facts over your blood money influenced anecdotal influence any day.

you took an immoral decision to go and live in Qatar, and you'll have to live with that. you seem to be doing perfectly fine with it

again its not optimal that we deal with them at all, and normally i'd be loathe to criticise individuals say like the way chuggers shame people to give to charity etc. however in this instance its all down to YOUR individual choice. you can literally not work in a place that represses human rights. but you do so for money and career.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880970#Comment_119880970

So, like immigrants the world over, I moved to Qatar because of better opportunities. Moving to Qatar does not infer support for anyone or any regime, you seek to impose that connection on me to that you can use that tactic to discredit me. That is the sort of debating strategy I would expect from a 12-year-old.

Homosexuality is technically illegal in Qatar, but it is not enforced. I agree that homosexuality is criminalised in 70 or so countries, but LGBTQ+ rights is about more than just criminality, it is also the right to be recognised as equal in the law. Most of the population of the world lives in countries that do not recognise homosexual relationships as equal to heterosexual ones.

You say that none of these countries hosted a World Cup? How abour Russia in 2018, Japan and Korea in 2002?

I do bat for Qatar, mainly because much of what has been said about the country is prejudiced and/or false. There are many flaws and problems in Qatar, but none of them get a mention in this thread because it is populated mainly by woke keyboard warriors who are one Google search away from their next opinion. As far as I can tell I am the only one on this thread writing from Doha.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881219#Comment_119881219

Nicely said.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881178#Comment_119881178

FIFA actually banned Ukraine from using their original kit because it had a map of Ukraine with Crimea attached.

Tune really changed on that one since.

There was a lot of people calling out Russia at the time but nowhere near the amount of calls to boycott.