Qatar World Cup

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856786#Comment_119856786

Just to clarify a few points:

• It will be around 22-25 deg in November/December - perfect for football;
• There is a strong tradition of playing soccer in Qatar, there is a vibrant professional league and the national side are the current holders of the Asian Cup;
• The sporting calendar nonsense is just that, nonsense. The only leagues affected are European. This is the World Cup, not the European Cup;
• There are no slaves in Qatar; and
• Gay people are more that welcome to come to the games. Homosexuality may be banned on the statute books, but it is not enforced.

Hillmanhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856688#Comment_119856688

The photo is fake

I live in Qatar and I have an account at QDC, the only liquor distributor.

If you have an account you can see all their products online,.

They don't stock Brewdog

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856991#Comment_119856991

"a spokesperson for the firm confirmed to Fortune on Wednesday that BrewDog beers were being sold in Qatar, but said the company did not sell directly into the Qatari market."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/09/brewdog-new-backlash-over-qatar-anti-world-cup-campaign-criticizes-adidas-kia-visa/

So there spokesperson was lying?...

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856918#Comment_119856918

Just on the gay people one.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/24/qatar-security-forces-arrest-abuse-lgbt-people

You are saying no slaves?

It kinda sounds like there are slaves...or migrant workers being treated like slaves..

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/exploitation-of-migrant-workers-ahead-of-the-2022-qatar-fifa-world-cup

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856918#Comment_119856918

Riiiight

The host nation is expected to lose all their games. Even Stephen Kenny managed to beat them 4-0.

It's 45+C when the world cup is supposed to be on, that's why they had the "air conditioned stadiums" nonsense and now they have the winter world cup nonsense.

There are no slaves in Qatar, where's that comical Ali picture when I need it?

"We can lock you up for who you are, but we probably won't, so you can feel welcome here!" seriously...?

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856918#Comment_119856918

And to clarify my earlier point: by living there, working there and defending the indefensible, you are an embarrassment to Ireland.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857320#Comment_119857320

And there it is again.

An embarrassment to Ireland? Awfully good of you to imagine you speak for a whole nation. It’s not much of an argument for anyone who doesn’t already share your views, is the point I’m making. All it amounts to is guilt tripping. It’s effective on people who are seeking your approval, not so much on anyone who isn’t.

Larbre34

The biggest sporting event since the Berlin Olympics

- Miguel Delaney, Chief Football Writer, The Independent (London)

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857320#Comment_119857320

Hysterical rubbish.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119857938#Comment_119857938

A fair comment I suppose. Personally I can't see any reason for an Irish person to live and work in Qatar (since we don't even have a consulate there, nevermind an embassy).

Choosing to do so is an expression of support for a homophobic, sexist, absolute monarchy that forbids political association and trade unions in exchange for the opportunity to avoid one's civic duty to pay tax. There's no other reason to be there.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858216#Comment_119858216

Personally I can't see any reason for an Irish person to live and work in Qatar (since we don't even have a consulate there, nevermind an embassy).

You can't see any reason for an Irish person to live and work in Qatar? Really? Here's the main reason. Jobs.

I also don't buy that if you work in Qatar you support a homophobic, sexist, absolute monarchy. That's like saying that if you work in West Virginia you support a ban on abortion.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858216#Comment_119858216

It is, from your point of view, which is why you imagine there could be no other justification for anyone who chooses to go to Qatar. From their point of view however, there could be any number of reasons, none of which involve any association with the things you’re choosing to associate them with based upon your point of view.

I don’t particularly care one way or the other about Qatar specifically, or the World Cup, or corruption in FIFA or whatever else, which is why I used the example of veganism as the closest idea I could relate it to, by way of making an analogy between vegans who engage in that sort of behaviour which stems from a belief in their own moral superiority - condemnation, in place of any legitimate argument. Just because I eat meat doesn’t mean I want to kill animals.

That’s why I say that sort of behaviour only works on people who already share your views. The UAE for example would be a similar country to Qatar, and I know a few people who are employed over there as teachers and nurses. I don’t immediately associate them with supporting the ill treatment of people in those countries, or the political systems in those countries, or the things which you identify as issues for you in those countries, because I know they couldn’t be less interested in getting involved with or being associated with those things.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856090#Comment_119856090

Thats changing the goalposts.

Sleepy

Your choice of veganism is a strange comparison but perhaps an apt one. When we choose to purchase and eat meat, we're supporting an industry based around the farming, killing of and butchering of animals. We're supporting that activity. There's no way of avoiding it, it's simple reality: for a steak to be on my plate an animal has had to die.

Irish people work in the UAE for the exact same reason they work in Qatar: because they can earn good money there without paying income tax on it.

They may not like the human rights abuses being carried out in those countries, and let's be honest very few have any intention of ever settling there or raising children there. On the very basis of employment, however, that where their labour has more value to the employer than the remuneration they're receiving from them, they're actively contributing to the society they're living in. By the very decision to live and work there, they are contributing to the economic wellbeing of the society they live in. It may not be a direct expression of support for all of it's policies but it certainly is an activity which helps sustain them.

Just as vegetarianism / veganism is a moral choice, so is this. Only instead of it being animals that suffer or die in order for people to eat, other humans are the ones suffering or dying in these states in order for others financial benefit.

I don't think it's fair to judge those who find themselves living and working in such places through the accident of birth. I think it's wilful self-delusion, however, not to judge someone who chooses to move to those places because they can enrich themselves there while others suffer.

gormdubhgorm

I watched this documentary on the Qatar World Cup Vote to refresh my memory.

https://youtu.be/U0onvrn71Qc

France (Zarkosky plus Platini) we’re instrumental in the rigging of the vote.

What I had forgotten was the ambassador for the English bid for 2018 was Mr David Beckham.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/dec/01/david-beckham-england-2018-world-cup

2011 - Beckham later said the corruption over the 2018 ‘gave him a sick feeling’

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jul/24/david-beckham-fifa-corruption-sick

The same David Beckham has been paid 150m to be the Qatar Ambassador for the 2022 WC. A decade later.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/david-beckham-qatar-ambassador-b962184.html?amp

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858390#Comment_119858390

How is this changing the goalposts? It was a genuine question.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858415#Comment_119858415

The reason I used veganism is because some vegans make similar claims based upon their own personal beliefs and their own moral standards. That’s why they see anyone who doesn’t adhere to their standards as contributing to the things which are issues for them. For me there’s nothing more to it than I like eating meat. In the same way, there’s nothing more to it for people who like football other than they like football.

They don’t see themselves as actively or tacitly supporting all the other issues which you’re choosing to associate with Qatar hosting the World Cup. In the same way - the Irish people I know working in UAE don’t see themselves as actively contributing to the issues in that country. From your perspective they are, from theirs, they’re not, so your passing judgement upon them doesn’t actually mean anything, it’s entirely self-serving in that it allows you to imagine yourself to be morally superior to other people.

And that’s fine btw, I don’t have any issue with that attitude whatsoever, because I’m not directly affected by it and as far as I’m concerned you’re not actually doing any harm to anyone else. Where I would have an issue however, is with corporate entities like that beer company which try to associate their brand with social justice in order to market their products at that demographic, ie - ‘show your support for the people of Qatar by buying our products’. It’s the opposite of guilt by association, it’s virtue by association, as though anyone who doesn’t want to be associated with their brand, doesn’t support the people of Qatar.

You’re not getting anything out of your advocacy, whereas the beer company is - increased revenue from people who are so desperate to signal how morally superior they are to others that they’d go so far as drinking piss and paying for the privilege 😒

smurfjed

And yet we don’t see boycotts of flights into dublin by Qatar Airways, Emirates and Turkish airlines.

Sleepy

To use the vegan analogy again: the question isn't whether animals suffer or die in order for us to consume their eggs/milk/meat or skins. That's a matter of fact. Morality comes into the personal choice as to whether that's okay or not. For most, we're happy to choose to continue consuming animal products and assuage any guilt in that by enshrining animal welfare into the regulations for food production in an attempt to minimise the suffering we cause the animals.

Making the choice to go work in an oppressive regime is the same: by supporting that regime economically, you're contributing to the human rights abuses their governments carry out. The harm is being done and by contributing to those carrying out that harm, you're a part of it. The question of personal beliefs and moral standards is about whether it's okay to do that or not. For me, it's not and honestly I think that not profiting from the misery of others is a fairly low bar to set for morality. For those that make the choice, they clearly see it as okay to enrich themselves at the expense of the fundamental human rights of others.

I suppose I also find it particularly galling when the main motivation to go work in these countries is the lack of tax. To my view, not only are they supporting human rights abuses for personal gain, they're also shirking their responsibilities to the country that's reared and educated them and to which they'll no doubt return when they want their children to enjoy the same benefits.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858649#Comment_119858649

The same principles apply - your condemnation doesn’t mean anything to anyone who doesn’t imagine they have anything to feel guilty about in the first place.

For what it’s worth - the moral argument doesn’t cut it for me with veganism, I tried it for the espoused health benefits reasons. I eventually figured that the health argument either doesn’t cut it when the alternative products to meat are nothing like meat.

I imagine the same applies for people who like football - there’s no guilt needs assauging, and they’re not interested in the morality of human rights abuses. Same applies to people working in these countries - no guilt in working there, and they’re not interested in human rights abuses.

You do have a point though if anyone agreed with you that what they were doing is wrong, and they did it anyway. They deserve condemnation for their actions, I just wouldn’t be interested in condemning them though as I don’t think it achieves anything positive.

gmisk

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-11-05/how-qatar-hacked-the-world-cup

Perfectly normal behaviour....they really won that vote fair and square...

Potential-Monke

The whole last 2 pages can be summed up with; people will be people, they will be selfish and do what they want as long as they are happy/it brings some benefit to them. They may pretend to care, but they really don't as long as they're benefitting. Such is humanity.

We have people who will actively avoid these places. I won't ever go to certain countries, but I don't travel anyway so moot point.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844022#Comment_119844022

Corporatism basically. Nothing new.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119843009#Comment_119843009

Che Neville caught out again.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860258#Comment_119860258

I can understand the casual fan avoiding this because it is in Qatar. But for some people football is a huge part of their life. They look forward to the world cup every 4 years. Why should they be punished by some corrupt politicians selling the rights of their hobby?

I assume people giving out about this don't carry a chinese made smart phone and own a Fairphone instead. Ensure they only buy locally sourced and made clothes. It is very difficult these days to live a life that doesn't support cruelty and slavery in some form. The time and money needed to live that type of life is beyond a lot of people.

Not going to Qatar on holiday and skipping a tournament you'd have watched very little of anyway isn't a huge sacrifice. Obviously some big football fans will skip watching this to make a point and fair play to those people.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856991#Comment_119856991

jaysis batting a bit too hard for Qatar. i suppose you're the one who has to live with your life choices. you must be turning two blind eyes to the situation in your ex pat bolthole that probably has no connection with reality.

6500 migrants died building stadiums etc.

Gay people are arrested, and the death penalty is on the books for "the crime". but shure its grand like.

if you choose to go and live and work in an oppressive regime then you are for all intents and purposes, supporting it. its pretty clear cut. fair enough people do it for money.

but companies should be called out before individuals alright

hotmail.com

Most people aren't taking this seriously because it involves men kicking a football around a pitch.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860291#Comment_119860291

Some other good excuses I can use to make it OK for me to watch the world cup!

On the topic of the football, I hope Messi gets his world cup win.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119844022#Comment_119844022

Agree hundred percent.

See also the guardian for hypocrisy. On the one hand running regular articles condemning everything about Qatar while at the same time pumping out daily content about the teams, the build up. They don't have the integrity to put their advertising money where their mouth is and boycott coverage of it

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119858437#Comment_119858437

Unbelievable. These people, Beckham included,should be locked up