solve the housing problem easily...some solutions?

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654256#Comment_119654256

why would it be a bad thing if tourism suffered? Isn’t it essentially staffed by low paid non Irish who are in themselves adding to the housing pressures? I thought it was interesting that over lockdown, if I remember correctly, there was no real fall in income tax I think, despite all these businesses being . So what is the actual contribution?

I think there are too many tourists and we have reached a point where the costs are greater than the benefits. Too many decisions are made with tourists in mind rather than residents. There is no way residents’ accommodation needs should be compromised for tourists. Airbnb should definitely be banned.

hamburgham

I agree with the sentiment. Agree that they’re good workers, have brought fantastic skills from which we’re benefiting. And yes I’d gladly swap them for our wasters. The thing is though that we can’t do an exchange. And now, and for quite a number of years, with the best will in the world, we just don’t have room for any more. Why is it such a terrible thing to say this?

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669012#Comment_119669012

No its not. The costs of high rise developments make those type of apartments very expensive according to professional surveyors. The study referred to in the link puts the cost of a low rise apartment(which I think means less than 6floors) in Dublin at 359,000euro and an apartment in a high rise at 619,000euro. I've no issue with people living in a high rise apartment block if that is what they want to do but there are only a limited number of people in the country with incomes to cover the cost of living in this type of apartment so for a large number of people this is not a solution to their housing needs. The country is not short of land considering the relatively low density of population in the country and its just the willingness of government to allow more areas to be zoned and developed for residential use. Government here says it wants to do something about housing but in reality it is more concerned about keeping property prices high so those who have already secured some property can believe they are in a prosperous country and vote them into a job again in the next election.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667222#Comment_119667222

Absolutely but the world is full of go getters but we don't have the housing or infrastructure to facilitate them.

At this stage the number of ambitious workers coming through Dublin airport arrivals is to the detriment of the native population. Especially the younger generation.

I would much rather see our young people stay in Ireland and have families of their own than accommodate an enthusiastic German, Nigerian, Spaniard etc.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666910#Comment_119666910

Well, look to the biggest costs. Labour, materials, land, tax, profit.

Something must be cost less in those French builds.

Now, take labour as an example, there's not many builders, plumbers and electricians earning less than 50k for site work. Some of the private trades are up in the 70-80k handy enough. High demand, low supply.

It's good news for someone who wants to buy in the south of France.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669097#Comment_119669097

sure what has tourism ever done for us…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661841#Comment_119661841

Ok so we build up and build high density, then what?

We have become like England and while our living footprint is minimised we have still expanded our primary industry footprints (agricultural, mining etc). England is still increasing in population and has been expanding despite high density.

Eventually you have to draw a line. Why not now?

MayoSalmon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654343#Comment_119654343

There is no decrease to pass on.. The price of stamp has nothing to do with the cost to build and its irrelevant to a builder.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669097#Comment_119669097

why would it be a bad thing if tourism suffered? Isn’t it essentially staffed by low paid non Irish who are in themselves adding to the housing pressures?

I can’t speak for all of the country but I live a few kms outside a popular seaside resort. The housekeeping staff, restaurant staff, bar staff, attraction staff, etc are still mostly Irish natives of all ages living in the locality.

It’s a complete myth that Irish natives won’t do the menial low paid jobs.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119661841#Comment_119661841

see below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666661#Comment_119666661

lalababa

I was looking at houses not apartments. Look up leboncoin.fr ..its like daft/donedeal. One example is 30km south of Tours called St. Flovier.

80m2 with a 1/2 acre garden for 110k.

lalababa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669046#Comment_119669046

As above

lalababa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669195#Comment_119669195

Cost o

lalababa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672125#Comment_119672125

Typo above. Cost of build in ireland ( doesn't include site cost) is roughly twice that of france. So there's something wrong there.

Geuze

Here is an 81 sqm new 3-bedroom house in a town in France for 123,400:

https://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/2228221539.htm

How is that possible?

knipex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119658638#Comment_119658638

I would be very very surprised is any property investment funds are buying up housing estates.

Shocked even particualry if it was more than a one off

knipex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119659043#Comment_119659043

As long as people want to live in a specific area.

The reality is there is only so much space so you either move to a different area or densify,. If you want a sprawl of housing estates from dublin to portlaois then fine.. But then don't complain about lack of public transport, traffic congestion, cost of servies. lack of cycle lanes etc etc,

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672852#Comment_119672852

They have been buying up significant proportions of new build developments.

Funds bought 57% of new homes in 2019

Investment funds bought over 5,800 homes in Dublin in 2019 at a cost of €2.4bn, with 57% of all new builds in the capital snapped up.

While focus has been drawn to the purchase of 135 homes at an estate in Maynooth, the scale of that spending is seen in a report on the Dublin property market, which was published by estate agents Hooke & MacDonald in February." https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40296650.html

Global property investment firm buys most of 170-home estate in KildareRound Hill Capital to put 135 houses at Mullen Park in Maynooth on rental market after deal believed to be worth €54 million

Michael Brennan

May 2, 2021

And more: https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0504/1213801-mullen-park-investors-first-time-buyers-property-housing-estate/

..and https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-could-be-here-for-50-years-we-are-not-selling-says-the-fund-that-bought-300-homes-41361754.html

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669721#Comment_119669721

This is true. The further you get from Dublin the more likely you are to see Irish people doing "undesireable" low-paid work.

Dublin being Dublin, generally it's mostly people willing to take these jobs and try to make a fist at making it work financially are non-EEA workers. Because it's that or retreat back to where they're from.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119672865#Comment_119672865

Your point that we need density as there is only so much space if people want to live in a specific area would only make sense if people all wanted to live in the one specific area. If people want to pay through the nose to live in one high density area then good luck to them but this is not a solution to the housing problem. I have lived in Dublin and I would not want to live there again and have a job elsewhere that rarely requires me to travel to Dublin. Where I now work is in another city centre and I would not want to live there either and many people I have talked to are not interested in high density living with a preference with some to even live in another country rather than have to pay the current costs of urban housing here. I already posted a link explaining how hi-rise apartments in Dublin have been calculated recently to cost 619,000euro so saying the only way to solve the housing problem is with more density does not make sense to me.

To say it is high density living or a sea of housing estates stretching from Dublin to Portlaoise also seems like nonsense to me in light of developments in remote working and the fact that planning authorities would no longer allow this type of residential only type development. There are metropolitan areas in the world much bigger than Dublin that facilitate public transport, provide for cycle lanes where they are appropriate, don't need to have huge costs attributed to services and are not known for traffic congestion being a major problem so why would this need to be the case if developments that were not high density were properly planned and developed in Ireland? Just saying that development that does not suit your view on the way people should live will automatically have these problems is not offering a solution and just pointing out the well known issues that need to be addressed when sensible residential development takes place.

lawrencesummers

Il tell you what doesnt help the housing crisis.

Putting up the cost of bricks and mortar

twowheelsonly

The biggest problem IMO is councils no longer building by direct labour.

All Councils stopped this in the late 80s' /early 90s' and it was after this that prices started to sky rocket. I'm 100% in favour of going back to this model and forgetting about public/private partnerships or buying houses on the general market for council tenants. Some will say that it leads to slums developing but in my experience all of these areas, with a few notable exceptions, 'grow up' and become very settled. Build them in pockets of 20 /30/ 40 rather than the sprawling estates that became the norm and a lot of the problems associated with these estates will dwindle. Give priority to those working and to young families who can't afford to get a mortgage.

BTW, I'm also in favour of selling off old council stock, in particular to sitting tenants. I wouldn't sell them until they were 10/15/20 years old though. This has the benefit of giving the councils more money whilst reducing their maintenance costs on old buildings. It also helps areas to develop and become more settled.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674248#Comment_119674248

Absolutely. I thought this sort of stunt was left back in the last century. Levying people making serviceable blocks to pay for people making shite bocks is completely wrong. The problems were because of inadequate regulation and every voter, rich and poor, should pay towards fixing it because they allowed it happen.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654370#Comment_119654370

So build poor quality both in terms of building quality and design ?

there are some absolute monstrosities being built and enabled with planning as it is.

CPO peoples property ? In 100 years sure when there are about 12 million people living here just make it illegal to have gardens 😉

Bit cynical

Basic idea of these steps is to increase the number of housing units generally in the country.

1. Streamline planning permission. Speed up process of obtaining it and change the bias towards enabling new builds rather than preventing them.
2. Increase the amount of zoned land.
3. Encourage more medium rise developments in urban areas.
4. In the rental sector, channel investment into fund based schemes rather than private amateur landlords. Regulate for long-term secure rental such as has worked well in Germany.
5. Allow alternative temporary structures (tiny homes) on owned agricultural land subject to appropriate regulation.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674356#Comment_119674356

People are not saying build poor quality, just more basic homes to bare minimum requirements. We need thousands of new homes asap. The people currently looking for homes on daft are going through hell, they don't have the luxury of worrying about a stupid garden

DelaneyIn

We could build a million houses tomorrow. And still we would have a homeless problem down the road. We are a tiny island on the periphery of Europe. We invited the world to come here , and we promised to house them all. It's absolutely crazy that no-one will even discuss this.

Strumms

the counter argument to the above is only starting, when it’s too late.. the cap won’t be put back on the bottle until it’s too late and realistically the cap being put back on so to speak can only happen with Ireland following the British out of the EU…the EU won’t change… this will happen btw… just not yet.

Just need to get back controlling our borders.

topmanamillion

Flat pack timber frame housing. Germany have factories that are churning out 1,000s of them. Build a similar factory here. Forget about bespoke one off housing. The building industry here is a cottage industry when it needs to operate on an industrial level. If its simply not up to it employ a foreign firm(s) and give them a contract to build x amount of housing units inside 5 years.

Also enact legislation to counteract NIMBYISM and career objectors. Start compulsory purchasing swathes of land around Dublin and nationally and start building.

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674837#Comment_119674837

The bare minimum still has to ensure a home that is easy and efficient to heat and the best insulation, quality building materials. They do have to be a decent enough size with a good mix of number of bedrooms ( obviously not mansions but not matchboxes either). The bare minimum is still an expensive house in the cities in Ireland. Wood, blocks, windows, steels are not cheap. Land is another huge factor. Any developers that have paid a fortune for land will sit on if needed to maximise their profits.

The state owns a lot of land and instead of selling to the highest bidder could give some to County Councils to build on. Straight away cheaper then buying houses on open market. Some for council tenants and some for actual affordable housing keep the developments small and include housing for elderly that want to downsize from a three bed council house and also disabled people living in assisted living in the community. Careful planning would ensure we don’t repeat past mistakes (aka huge council estates where antisocial behaviour got out of hand)