NI Census 2021

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740308#Comment_119740308

Your beloved and revered EU has declared ulster-Scot’s a language. Personally I think it’s nonsense but who are we to claim we know more than the EU masters

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740357#Comment_119740357

Agreed. Well it would have to be or that would be another battle we’d have to take on. Both are declared minority languages by eu. I reckon the eu might even take our side as we insist the road signs are all changed.

some here think ni is a mess and ungovernable. Try it as a part of a roi and it would really be a challenge

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740432#Comment_119740432

And less than a quarter of one percent in ni filled in their census in Irish. try holding a mirror up.

I don’t know a single unionist who wants money spen on Ulster Scots language. You are just being a daftie

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740602#Comment_119740602

I’m afraid not. Your masters wrote the gfa in a way that gives us nordies all the power. You can’t call a poll

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740771#Comment_119740771

Oh look, Downcow has wilfully misread a post. Imagine that. Surely he wouldn't be so disingenuous?

Can't wait for this to be misquoted and to distract and send threads repeatedly down rabbit-holes of nonsense.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740803#Comment_119740803

Why would you want road signs changed if you have no interest in languages?

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740848#Comment_119740848

Masters? Precious EU?

Are you enjoying whatever Brexiter slop you've been consuming of late? I'd put down the spoon dear boy, it can't be healthy.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740848#Comment_119740848

No. the north could vote for unity and it would not happen if the south voted against unity. North and south are in a reciprocal relationship that both need to vote for unity for it to happen

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741040#Comment_119741040

You clearly stated that no one wants NI. I am glad to hear that.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741073#Comment_119741073

You are taking us all over the place. Your last number of posts refer the my response to the post that Ulster-Scot’s is not a language. I simply pointed out that this honour was bestowed upon it by EU. Something I think is silly.

noe I am not being dragged further down that road for you to accuse me again of going off topic.

back to the census. It confirms that no language other than English has any significant usage in ni. I guess that’s the same in roi

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741104#Comment_119741104

Agreed

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741104#Comment_119741104

Agreed

downcow

Here’s a wee piece from a near neighbour of mine (paddy Keilty) done before the census but all he says is very much confirmed by the census results. I used to struggle with his position and some of the scrapes he got into but I truly respect and admire the journey he has been on in recent years.

we could all learn a lot from what he says about sharing this space.

https://twitter.com/victimstroubles/status/1580592061501562881?s=21

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741115#Comment_119741115

I clearly didn't. But alas.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741153#Comment_119741153

Downcow has never seen a tangent he didn't divert upon.

Funny how you're trying to get us back on topic now that you've been shown up talking bullplop as usual.

That said, getting back on topic rather than scurrying away as you normally do is rather laudable. Are we seeing some growth? Perhaps the use of "wee" was insensitive. I forgot you don't have any interest in Ullans.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741617#Comment_119741617

I have not the slightest idea who you are referring to as my wee belligerent friend?

your tone in recent posts is disappointing and depressing.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741153#Comment_119741153

Who claimed otherwise?

The purpose of the ILA is to help revive and promote the native language.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741366#Comment_119741366

Great glad you get this. Unfortunately one poster here doesn't and keeps misquoting the GFA believing just one of the jurisdictions of Ireland can bring about unity.

ittakestwo

Regarding languages in NI. This seems to be grown up non sectarian sequence of events.

1) push for a irish language act.

2) unionists parties in response push for ulster scots language act thinking this will annoy nationlists.... zero sum thinking.

3) nationlist parties dont care about ulster scots language act infact most language lovers pushing for Irish would welcome it too.

4) unionists parties see this back fired and back away from pushing for ulster scots because their hatred for anything irish outways anything else. They now rather have no language acts in a hope that the irish act does not succeed rather than have both.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742126#Comment_119742126

wrong.

firstly you need to separate genuine Irish language lovers from those who want to use it as a weapon.

the second group are the loudest and are the ones demanding it is pushed on everyone. They also hate the idea of any equivalence given to ulster/Scots, whether financial or otherwise.

the main unionist community have never pushed for big support for ulsterscots, rather we see Irish language, dance, music etc as cultural interests and we would like same support for ulster-British cultural interests of which language is tiny while music and parading is huge.

before you claim republicans are comfortable with Ulster Scots language, just read a few recent posts on this page. And to suggest both are treated equally or with equal respect is nonsense. Here is what a recent poster said, “it's merely a degraded version of Scots to the extent that it is now simply English with a few daftie stupidy words”. They are not even treat equally on this forum. If I made such statement about Irish my feet wouldn’t touch the ground - my goodness I was getting lambasted for accidentally misspelling words. Dare I have responded about daftie stupidy spelling.

in short your post is far removed from reality. I do not know a unionist who does not appreciate and support the honest development of the beautiful native Irish language. Most of us would see it as much more deserving of financial support than Ulster Scots language. You just need to get the militants to stop aligning with it

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742244#Comment_119742244

Can you show me evidence where either SF or the SDLP have tried to block Ulster Scots becoming an official language? We know DUP and TUV are blocking a irish language act.

I think if Ulster scots did become a official language signs would only be put up in areas it is indigenous to. Ie Ulster.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742244#Comment_119742244

the main unionist community have never pushed for big support for ulsterscots, 

This is just one of a few non-factual statements in that post.

The fact is, When the Anglo Irish Agreement was reaching it's conclusion much to the chagrin of Unionism (James Molyneaux called it 'the worst thing that ever happened to us') it was David Trimble who organised a conference that led to the setting up of The Ulster Society which claimed that Ulster Scots was an 'essential element' of the nation.

Up to that, Ulster Scots had been largely ignored by political Unionism.

@ittakestwo is correct in what they say. The real 'weaponising' was that of Ulster Scots, to counter the progress the Irish language was making. What stumped Unionists was that nobody objected to Ulster Scots recieving funding and support.

*You are also wrong @downcow when you claimed Irish and Ulster Scots are treated similarly in the EU. They aren't. Irish is a Class 111 language while Ulster Scots has a Class 11 rating. Irish is also an 'official language of the EU:

The EU has 24 official languages:

Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish and Swedish.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742285#Comment_119742285

It’s tiresome that you just make up things and claim I said them.

"Can you show me evidence where either SF or the SDLP have tried to block Ulster Scots becoming an official language"

I don’t recall saying the SDLP or SF blocked ulster-scots becoming an official language???

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742346#Comment_119742346

more tiresome mis quotes

"You are also wrong @downcow when you claimed Irish and Ulster Scots are treated similarly in the EU" Can you link us to when I said this

and this "Up to that, Ulster Scots had been largely ignored by political Unionism." is just such nonsense. You are trying to narrow Ulster-Scots (or as it is more readily referred to now as Ulster-British) culture down to language. I have already said a few post back that language is in little or no interest to most Ulster-Brits. It is the other aspects of our culture which are of much more value to us.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743417#Comment_119743417

Irish is an 'official' language of the EU, Ulster Scots is not, see the difference?

I am not trying to 'narrow' anything down, just stating the facts for the record. Ulster Scots culture and language (I don't deny it exists BTW, happy to see it supported) was largely ignored until David Trimble organised the conference from which sprouted the Ulster Society and a new found interest in all things Ulster Scots.

There is a political dimension to it and what harm? It should be promoted as part of our shared Irish and British culture and it is, nobody objects politically.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743522#Comment_119743522

You’re spinning your way out of it.

you said that I had claimed they were equally treated by your EU. I did not.

To suggest that david Trimble organised a conference that dreamt up ulster-Scot’s cultural is just simply laughable. He was about 400 years late to the party 😂. That would be like saying IrelandFuture conference came up with the idea of uniting Ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744412#Comment_119744412

The implication of what you said was they were seen equally by the EU. They most certainly are not, Irish is seen as a Class 111 Langauage and an official language of the Eu, Ulster Scots is a Class 11 language.

I didn't say 'he dreamt up Ulster Scots culture'

Here's what I said:

it was David Trimble who organised a conference that led to the setting up of The Ulster Society which claimed that Ulster Scots was an 'essential element' of the nation.

Up to that, Ulster Scots had been largely ignored by political Unionism.

I.E. Ulster Scots was there but was ignored by political Unionism. Why it suddenly came front and centre around the time of a pivotal agreement that angered and scared Unionism, people can judge for themselves.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740803#Comment_119740803

Not actually so, the EU doesn't recognise Irish as a minority language - in fact it is a full official language of the EU.

The "minority language" business is run by a different organisation - the Council of Europe, and which rights are given to which language depends on the State a given language is spoken in. For instance, German is, logically, a full official language in Germany, Austria, Switzerland; it is also official and receives varying amounts of protection in Italy, Denmark and various other countries.

In the UK, Irish is recognised as a minority language, along with a several others: Cornish, Manx Gaelic, Scots, Scottish-Gaelic, Ulster-Scots, Welsh. Cornish, and the two versions of Scots receive less protection than the various forms of Gaeilge and Welsh.

Here's a list of countries that have signed/ratified the Council of Europe’s Convention on minority languages - the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages. Enjoy browsing it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740829#Comment_119740829

I don’t know a single unionist who wants money spen on Ulster Scots language

So what is the idea behind "Tha Boord o Ulster Scotch" then? Isn't it meant to be a language promotion body? And if no unionists want that, why did they insist on having it? A bit thick, isn't it? You're friends in London might even use the insult "a bit Irish" when referring to you in relation to this.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741617#Comment_119741617

One of the many amusing things about "Ullans" is its makey-uppy name, based on "Lallans".

But Lallans is simply the word Low-lands written as pronounced in the Lowlands of Scotland. Ullans doesn't have any such meaning, as there is no such place as Ulland or Ullands. I suspect the person/people who invented the word didn't realise this.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745256#Comment_119745256

I’m misquoted again. I didn’t say that no unionist was interested in Ulster Scots language. I am saying I don’t know any, hence emphasising that it is a very minority niche in the community. Unlike parading etc which very large numbers follow

we all use it everyday, and I would suggest we use much more Ulster Scots in our daily speaking than Irish