EVs are worse for the environment (and other EV related myths)

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009400#Comment_120009400

For sure. No cars in the world would be better for the environment. Walking would be better for the environment. Extracting the minerals to construct a bicycle used rare earth materials so we can scrap bikes too.

But if you choose to drive then sure an EV is better than an ICE, no?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009014#Comment_120009014

I'm not going to second guess your motivations but I'd be extremely surprised if many bought EVs solely on environmental grounds. Instead they likely perceive EVs as superior cars and having crunched the numbers to find EVs are more financially attractive went ahead and purchased.

The idea that the majority of EV drivers somehow disadvantaged themselves so they could in some way contribute to environmental protection is off the mark imo.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009470#Comment_120009470

Of course, financials comes into it.

Where else can I drive a 762bhp 5 seater saloon paying €120 Motor Tax and €236 Insurance with very little routine maintenance?

But one does consider the environment or at least emission at the point of output. In and around cities and urban neighborhoods etc

Will an EV driver save the world, no. But to rob a line from a large British retailer, Every Little Helps.

Are you being forced into an EV, no. Plenty of choices out there. I’ll buy a Snickers, you can still enjoy your Bounty and nobody will think any different if you.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009469#Comment_120009469

No if you cared about the planet you would choose not to drive at all.

Whether ev's powered by moneypoints coal are better than ice powered by petrol remains to be seen, as we don't really know yet if ev's will have the same longevity as a 20 or 30 year old petrol or diesel.

There are many unknowns with ev's.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009108#Comment_120009108

All over the country we have these handy places called scrap yards where EOL vehicles are stripped of their reusable parts for use in other cars. The raw materials are broken down or melted and reused. I have personally on many occasions frequented these places to find parts to keep some of my previous cars in road worthy condition.

If an EV ends up in a scrap yard, the battery and motor is usually sold before the car even reaches the yard. Same for the alloys and many other components.

We should stop kidding ourselves and realise that cars will be needed for a long time. A bicycle or a bus is often not practical or feasible.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009492#Comment_120009492

Yes no problem. I’ll walk from my base to my patients house. If I leave now I’ll be there by 8pm.

Great use of time. Back to the horse and cart I suppose.

But some people need to transport themselves around the place.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009470#Comment_120009470

If they really cared they'd be demanding smaller batteries, shorter ranges and more public charging points.

Instead they want as much battery as possible. They want to hog as much of this scarce resource for themselves as they can get their hands on.

How many more ev's could we have for the same amount of battery material mined if ev owners chose to get smaller batteries and make the sacrifice of having to charge at a public location more often?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009513#Comment_120009513

That’s exactly what Tesla are doing right now.

Reducing battery sizes. Increasing efficiency.

Model Y for example, they introduced a 60 kWh battery with a soon to be 55 kWh battery once the BYD Battery becomes available.

Look at the Byron 1000km challenges on YT. The smaller 60 kWh battery cars are quicker to complete the 1000km than the bigger 80 kWh cars due to efficiency and quicker charging.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009509#Comment_120009509

Yes that's the kind of sacrifice people who really care about the environment would need to make.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for EV but Im not deluded into thinking it's proven to be any better for the environment.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009522#Comment_120009522

The sacrifice would be that I see one patient a day instead of 4?

Nor good for people in need unfortunately.

We cannot go back to the stone ages so we must make what we have cleaner.

The Real President Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009009#Comment_120009009

Ah ffs, you're counting something that didn't happen

This is why the greenies are perceived as more out of touch with reality all the time

Also it's power is never carbon neutral because it needs 70% - 85% backup coverage from a gas or coal plant

Just be honest and call it less carbon intensive power rather than repeat a lie

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009529#Comment_120009529

These ev's are drops in the ocean kind of stuff. 8 billion tonnes of coal will be consumed this year, helping produce our food, phones, cars, clothes, TV's etc.

This notion that buying an EV is going to make a blind bit of difference is truly pissing up the downpipe stuff.

All the cycle lanes, extra buses, new train services around Ireland is delusion if people think it's going to put even a dent in our consumption of 8 billion tonnes of coal a year.

The Real President Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009340#Comment_120009340

3k of work in one bill would be a catastrophic engine failure far from a real life scenario

What happens is a car worth 1k needs €800 of work and people opt for a newer car instead

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009522#Comment_120009522

While we are at it, we may as well have 4 families living in every 3 bed semi. That way, we would need less houses which would reduce carbon emissions and energy consumption. With 15-20 people per house, we wouldn't even need to turn the heat on.

Back in the real world, some people value their time and conveniences. We have jobs to get to and families to feed. We can balance this against our carbon footprint, but only hippies and green noses have the time to walk everywhere in their hemp socks.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009600#Comment_120009600

You make it sound so easy, "we can balance this against our carbon footprint"

We can't balance anything here, like I said already, we consume 8 billion tonnes of coal a year for the conveniences you speak of.

Not a snowballs of us maintaining our conveniences and reducing the tonnage.

There is no balance here at all, if we continue next year with an unbalance of 8 billion, rather than say 8.2 billion, we will be doing well.

I'm not one bit deluded into thinking me buying an EV will leave any coal in the ground.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009574#Comment_120009574

Doesn't need to be *one* thing with a car for a 3 k bill.

A car might have been driving along and the turbo fails.

However to be kept on the road long term it needs other bits and pieces done.

Like suspension work or a rusty sill.

Plus don't forget labour if like most owners you need to get a mechanic to do the work.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009600#Comment_120009600

A bit of an extreme comparison I would have thought

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009562#Comment_120009562

Again, that's not true. Its counting something that would have happened anyway. Similar to the example above with the car, if we need the lights on the power will be produced in some way.

Yup, wind does need back up. But when it's windy those plants are burning less fossil fuel. So the marginal electricity is improves.

Finally, I'll leave it here, do not appreciate being called a "greeny" (whatever that means). As a society, its the responsibility of everyone to think about these things and do their best, and not be dismissive of other views. And, everyone should be "green" in their thinking. Its not us versus them.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009648#Comment_120009648

What's the point in thinking green when we are churning through all that coal?

Not to mention the 100 million barrels of oil a day we consume.

Thinking green is just a delusion.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009673#Comment_120009673

Huh? Combined, oil and coal supply less than 10% of our electricity. Wind is about 35%.

But yeah, let's give up and watch the world burn/flood

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009492#Comment_120009492

...again, modern society is designed around the private car, without which, simply surviving on the planet without one would become impossible....

...you ll probably find most private vehicle owners care a great deal about the planet, but have accepted this reality.....

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009692#Comment_120009692

It's total consumption, not just our electricity.

Every one of us consumes a ton of coal each a year on average. So in a 4 person house that's 4 tonnes of coal per house per year.

Buying an EV won't put a dent in the 4 tons of coal we consumed, let's not deluded ourselves here.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009705#Comment_120009705

Deep down very few of us care, we are a consumer driven society we want new clothes, phones, couches, TV's etc. etc. We want food and wine from all over the world flown into us.

We want to go out in freshly washed clothes each day, we want our sun holidays. We want to live in a big house.

None of us really care, or we would stop.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009747#Comment_120009747

yes, but our electrical systems are slowly moving towards renewables and nuclear, and the decrease in ice cars, also helps to reduce carbon....

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009774#Comment_120009774

disagree there, most id know do greatly care, many go well beyond most, in order to help, well beyond myself, could be the type of people you mix with, most i know are greatly concerned, but have limitations on what they can do about it, most drive ice cars, for various different reasons, including myself....

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009779#Comment_120009779

Honestly do you think in 10 years our 8 billion tons of coal will be higher or lower than its at today?

With the population of the planet increasing existing infrastructure will still be needed, so all those renewables will be doing well to cover the extra demand.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008840#Comment_120008840

Yes they have done all that, what they have not done is ban car usage in the city. You can still drive through Dublin if you want and that won't change for the foreseeable future.

What the councils are trying to do is encourage people to use public transport or cycle and walk since these modes of transport are more sustainable and better for city planning

Unfortunately space is limited in cities so something has to give, as a result car travel is going to be made more difficult

Like I said, it isn't a conspiracy 😉

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009747#Comment_120009747

https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/key-publications/energy-in-ireland/

Coal is still less than 10% of our total energy mix (900ktoe out of about 13500 in 2021).

Total energy oil is 40 to 50%, but I think your making the point against yourself here, EVs will absolutely help this figure. At the moment an ICE is 100% fossil fuel driven, but an EV is about 65% fossil fuel driven and with potential to improve that number.

And this is only focusing on carbon intensity, it says nothing for the other emissions that aren't being spewed out around our towns and cities because EVs do genuinely have zero tailpipe emissions. This has a public health benefit.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009793#Comment_120009793

So what are these most people you know doing?

Giving up sun holidays?

Stopped consuming imported wine or food?

Wear the same clothes for 2 or 3 days?

Use the same towel for a week?

I don't know anybody who's doing this type of thing on a large scale.

Just look around a supermarket this week, it's absolute carnage as people are buying like it's the end of the world.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009795#Comment_120009795

lower, we re finally starting to deal with this problem, gonna be a rough decade to get there though

...yea, we re not accelerating the building of alternatives such as renewables and nuclear fast enough, so blackouts are very possible during this transition....