Tenants refusing to leave even though we are homeless..HELP

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264938#Comment_119264938

Same as if they go to court and the tenants don't follow through, but it will happen in a few weeks/a couple of months rather than a couple of years down the line. It will cost far less in the meantime, and when/if it does go to court it will allow the LL's solicitor to argue that mediation was offered and refused, or was undertaken but the tenants refused to honour the agreement, which will be bonus points in the LL's favour.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259022#Comment_119259022

Serious P.Flynn vibes off this post

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266061#Comment_119266061

First of all I am not giving advice. I am discussing a hypothetical situation similar to the OP's.

People are quoting what the RTB will do as fact. We all know that going down the RTB route is a minimum of a 6 month process. The OP and there family are homeless in the mean time. This is the second or third such thread on Boards of situations.

Going the RTB route is not costless either. Even if the RTB rule in favour of a situation like this the tenants can appeal to the circuit, high or even Suprema court.

In the meantime the OP cannot rent another property. Any LL will look for a 12 month lease, deposit and a months rent in advance.

I imagine as OP is paying a mortgage on present property and tenants are squatting at this stage and not paying rent. Going the RTB route will cost the OP 10-20 k in real terms anyway. So the RTB is not costless.

We have people saying the RTB will definitely 100% look for and get an injunction. They forget the squatters if hypothetically removed would have to contact the RTB. That is a 50/50 chance. If they did are people 100% sure the RTB would definitely follow through on this case. Would a judge definitely grant an injunction and for e a family out of there own home to rehouse squatters.

In a hypothetical situation like this if this case went to court it not about a moral victory, it about victory full stop it may well be cheapest way in reality for someone in a similar position to the OP.

Remember as well in a similar situation to this the owner of in similar situation to the OP would be entitled to free legal aid probably.

Even if not there are many barristers and solicitors would take this case on a no foal no fee basis. If they win they get the costs off the RTB. If the owner loses they do not have the means to pay the RTB.

It's all hassle but the present process is not hassle free either. If this hypothetical case went to court you would have the option of crowd funding as well. I would definitely contribute to such a funding and so would ten of thousands of other I imagine. A thousand small and big LL contributing 500 on average each would mean a half million war fund.

Of course it's all hypothetical

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266169#Comment_119266169

Shoot the messenger why don't you.

The OPs need to educate themselves on the legal process they need to follow as a LL, then actually follow it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266237#Comment_119266237

The OP rented out their property. There are laws around this to protect the tenant.

The OP becoming homeless does not entitle them to ignore the legal process for evicting a tenant.

Girl Geraldine

-Do you need three houses?

-Well, I gotta live somewhere

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266169#Comment_119266169

-Do you need three houses?

-Well, I gotta live somewhere

what?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266282#Comment_119266282

only a tenant while paying rent, that's the premise of renting

What you gonna do when all small time LL sell up and left in the clutches of offshore REITS dictating housing policy?

Govt really pulled a master stroke here, opening the way for vulture funds and laughing while the outraged gets dumped on small time LL

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266237#Comment_119266237

Hypothetical or not, its illegal actions being discussed and not for this thread

Crowdfunding of legal cases in Ireland is an exceptionally grey area and you'd burn your half a million trying to prove that those providing it had a legitimate interest to do so.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266366#Comment_119266366

You're wrong. They still have rights even if they have missed rent.

If you don't know how the system works why comment and mislead people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266465#Comment_119266465

You lost me at the glib, brash and nonsensical assertion that "the system works" - it doesn't.

Masala

wow.... interesting thread.

We in process of selling our late Mums house rather than rent it out. It empty now with one of us calling around daily and lighting a fire to keep so,me warmth in the walls!! All siblings agree that we dont want to be landlords!! Shocking how someone can just 'steal' your house in a civilised society

SHOCKING......

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266790#Comment_119266790

You lost me at the strawman.

The system works just well enough to penalize the LL if they don't follow it. As a LL makes no sense to throw good money after bad. Ranting gets you nowhere.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119266790#Comment_119266790

I don't think that's as bad as your glib and brash deliberate misinterpretation of the phrase '...how the system works...' as the phrase 'the system works'.

Flinty997

Regardless of peoples opinion of the system. You're obligated to use it.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263194#Comment_119263194

Damage to the property and substantial legal expenses on top can indeed be ruinous.

Claw Hammer

This lanlords "self help" went well.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/cork-mum-returned-home-school-12464458

Thinkingaboutit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260441#Comment_119260441

The landlord de-facto doesn't own it under current legislation. Your should also try not to mis-use a term like 'rent-seeking,' which refers to economic and economic manipulation in order to gain a share of wealth without creating more of it. That's something a politician and his / her pals do. A landlord maintaining his house creates wealth by employment of tradesmen, at minimum. Now more and more just just see that just one scummer overholding and wrecking the place means ruin, and either leave it empty, rent out as a holiday home (it's own trouble and squatters can happen there too, but not so much) or sell up. You should also learn the different between gross and net profit too.

OP should get legal advice. Some suggested solutions are crackers. And while some big commercial political donation paying commercial landlord can get in the heavies, that's not available to ordinary people.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267445#Comment_119267445

This has absolutely nothing in common with OP's case. It's a big bad LL repossessing a house. Totally different circumstances.

Court would look at it totally different to this case IMO if such a hypothetical situation happened.

Find me a case where the owner of a PPR was jailed for repossessing it it's highly unlikely any case similar to OP's would go to court.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267066#Comment_119267066

Point taken.

In other words the system "works" in much the same way that GDPR "worked" in enabling convicted murderer Graham Dwyer to win his appeal to the ECJ.

No further comment required.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267619#Comment_119267619

You were told to stop. Don't post in this thread again.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267623#Comment_119267623

That's a ludicrous comparison.

There is a legal process, the OP didn't follow it.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267576#Comment_119267576

What more economic growth/wealth is being created by renting a property? And don't give me the tradsemans effort again. You could rent-seek on a Toilet and by your definition, because someone needs to service it, it isn't rent-seeking.

Go on, tell me where I've misunderstood the difference between gross and net profit? 18k revenue, pay yer taxes and yer tradesmen, assuming no loans and that is your only income, 10k NET profit is about right, right?

Supercell

Op the tabloids love this kind of story. Go to the red tops, go to Joe.ie and share your story.

You dont have to name the people living there or the exact address , but you could give them pics of the property.

People love a bit of gossip and everyone who knows this family will know what they are doing and maybe they will decide to move...

Dont see anything illegal in this, maybe another way around the issue. I do think people would be interested in your story to be honest, it seems grossly unfair that you cannot move back into your own house when others are now squatting there rent free.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119267848#Comment_119267848

 it seems grossly unfair that you cannot move back into your own house when others are now squatting there rent free

If its unfair maybe you'd answer. According to the legislation, not you're "opinion"

#1 - How much notice should these people get. (how long do they have to move out)

#2 - How long after rent is overdue should (according to the legislation) they legally move out.

#3 - How much notice did the OP give them.

raclle

I'm just wondering if half of you have read the OP properly? Their former friend knew it was temporary. The house is not to a finished standard for renting. Since getting notice they have stopped payments. Essentially they are squatting rent free in an unfinished build that could be a hazard. The question should be what legal ramifications could there be? The idea that someone could hold your home to ransom is absolutely ludicrous and laws need to be changed

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268003#Comment_119268003

What meaning do you think "temporary" has legally?

What difference do you think the standard of property makes to the legality of the rental?

How long after stopping payments are they legally (according to the legislation) obliged to move out?

I suspect you don't know the legislation at all. The laws were changed. The tenants got more rights. One of those is you can't be turfed out if you miss a payment. Its in the legislation. You can't be instantly evicted.

The idea that someone could hold your home to ransom

Its not the LL home if they rented it out. Its the tenants home. Its the LL property. Different thing entirely. Security of tenure. That said its all based on the time frame of events. Which the OP never gave us. Which suggests none of this is true, or they didn't look up the rules of being a LL before they became one.

Caranica

OP, you have a solicitor. Talk to them, professionals who you are paying to advise you within the law. Some crazy stuff and soapboxing on this thread that could work out very expensive for you.

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268037#Comment_119268037

What meaning do you think "temporary" has legally?

What difference do you think the standard of property makes to the legality of the rental?

How long after stopping payments are they legally (according to the legislation) obliged to move out?

Since this wasn't done legally the OP can either face a fine or imprisonment which I'm guessing the tenant is well aware of hence holding them to ransom.

I suspect you don't know the legislation at all. 

I'm well aware of the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act

Its not the LL home if they rented it out. Its the tenants home. Its the LL property. Different thing entirely. Security of tenure. That said its all based on the time frame of events. Which the OP never gave us. Which suggests none of this is true, or they didn't look up the rules of being a LL before they became one.

Lets say hypothetically that it is true, I'm guessing the OP came to an agreement with the tenant under friendship at the time but as you mentioned we don't know the time frame or conditions of said events.

LJ12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268037#Comment_119268037

It’s a temporary home for the tenants which they knew and agreed to. The owners have no other home so it’s also their home and property and morally the owners should be entitled to have their home back. The wool was never pulled over the eyes of the now squatters, they were bailed out of their homeless situation by the owner in good faith and instead of getting themselves ready to find something else when the arrangement ended they’ve just taken full advantage of the flawed laws in this state.