Tenants refusing to leave even though we are homeless..HELP

sportsfan90

You have my best wishes OP, horrible situation to be in.

I'm sure someone will tell me that this suggestion is a terrible one and fair enough it probably is...

You mentioned there is no lease, wasn't registered with the RTB etc. So could you just report them to the gardai for trespassing, and just deny that there was any agreement in place. That these people are simply trespassing/squatting in your house and you'd like them to leave.

I guess one thing that might come against you there is if there's evidence of rent being paid for the first few months if it was paid electronically.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268037#Comment_119268037

Flinty the law in relation to rentals is now gone beyond ridiculous. Surely you can see that yourself. For f sake this scum in living in the OPs home rent free while the OP is homeless. The crazy thing is the law supports this scummy behaviour. How can you support this?

Landlords are selling up or leaving houses vacant because of this. Something needs to be done to give landlords common sense rights aswell. If this continues the rental market in Ireland will decrease and decrease and housing problems will only worsen.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268356#Comment_119268356

What legally is a "temporary home" ? and You can't give away your rights as a tenant.

The OP rented out the property. That makes them a LL. From that point its a business, and you have to do things by the book. A tenant who misses rent, isn't a "squatter". We've no idea of the OP gave legal notice or not. You've no idea if the OP did things legally. Which is why people are telling them to go get legal advice. Because they don't know what they are doing.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268333#Comment_119268333

Assume its true. You can't give away your tenant rights under "friendship". What the OP needs to do, is get advice and do it properly. You can't instantly evict a tenant, you have to follow the process.

This is why places stay empty. Its too much hassle to rent them. The easy money from renting, isn't so easy when it goes wrong.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268125#Comment_119268125

Exactly this.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268379#Comment_119268379

The OP moved away for a year.

You don't think the Garda might have problem with someone trying to trick them into thinking their tenants are trespasser's? Really?

LJ12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268864#Comment_119268864

We know they haven’t paid rent for atleast 2 months, that’s a decision that has been consciously made and one which will put the owners in an even worse situation. Remember those without any assets I.e. these tenants are able to seek housing assistance from the state. The owners will be granted very little if any assistance towards housing as they have a home, yet they are prevented from accessing it. I’m certain had they been renting the property to anyone who wasn’t trusted they would have had their i’s dotted and t’s crossed and a deposit taken. This was never a normal tenancy and if they’ve retained any rooms for their own belongings which I sincerely hope they have that they contact threshold and ask advise.

thinkabouit

Some dose OP

landlord asked me if he knew anybody looking for a place he had available.

Local auctioneers has a list of people that are waiting to be housed and basically most of them are like the people you've let in.

They Had houses, HAP, Council houses etc down through the years and never bothered there ass to pay rent and now it's everybody else's problem. Auctioneer couldn't recommend any of them to him.

Going the legal route sounds like a nightmare in this country, I'd start getting creative.

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268878#Comment_119268878

You can't give away your tenant rights under "friendship".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268956#Comment_119268956

This was never a normal tenancy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268125#Comment_119268125

Since this is such an unusual situation the OP has no option but go the legal route. Would love to hear the outcome of this. Best of luck OP

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269075#Comment_119269075

You're not getting it. You meant to do things the legal way, EVERY time. This is why they made a tenancy the default, regardless if registered. Because too many LL do what the OP did and try circumvent the law and the RTB. Which is why there is no such thing as abnormal tenancy. The other side to this if you are a LL who follows the rules, you are getting screwed by LLs who don't follow the rules. I would say its not that uncommon either. I've read a few threads on boards with a similar story.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268956#Comment_119268956

AFAIK all tenancies are "normal" tenancies unless its rent a room. The reason is to stop instant evictions, security of tenure. How many months did they pay rent before they stopped. Because thats the critical issue. No-one on this thread has brought that up. Tenants not paying their last month or two rent is very common. Using the deposit (if there is one), or leaving repairs and cleaning, or unpaid rent far in excessive of the tiny deposit.

This is why LL are leaving the market, and why people leave properties vacant rather then renting. Its why people won't rent holiday homes. Its why AirBNB is has new rules around short and long term rental. Its why they want to bring in endless tenancies and such. Its why fair deal homes sit empty.

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269197#Comment_119269197

I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm going on the basis of what the OP done at the time. I can only assume they went for a more "simplistic" approach and got burned

LJ12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269283#Comment_119269283

I understand well the complexities of the market and the reasons why landlords are leaving and if the state wants to improve the market they need to act in a fair and balanced way. The OP’s situation is certainly not fair and balanced and the state is to blame entirely for this situation from all angles.

It also doesn’t matter how many months a tenant has paid rent, once they have the keys and god forbid a 1 year fixed term contract, the payment can end right there and then with legal proceedings required and all that it entails. If it’s a 6 month initial phase contract there is slightly more hope for the LL if they act quickly.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269289#Comment_119269289

I know what you meant.

The OP actions might have been in good faith. But its exactly what a bad LL does. They are caught in the rules intended for catch bad LLs who avoid tax and tenant rights. They either didn't know the rules or deliberately avoided them. It doesn't really matter which. The end result is the same.

As for the friends/tenants. The might not have intended to break the arrangement until they realised they were going to be made homeless. I assume if they used to be friends they used to get on. But I wouldn't get into business with friends and family or loan them money. Because this stuff always happens. I assume they only recently stopped paying rent based on the OPs comments.

The OP needs to follow the rules to get out of this. Because its not following the rules that got them into it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269340#Comment_119269340

I'm not sure you do. They've closed any loophole with fixed term leases.

https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/ending-a-fixed-term-tenancy/what-is-a-fixed-term-tenancy-what-is-a-part-4-tenancy

The OP was away for a year. That ship has sailed.

The Govt has effectively closed the door on any irregular rentals. You might call that unfair. But its not from a security of tenure point of view. You don't rent a place you might want back in a hurry. LLs wanting places back for their own family was completely abused. Hence why there's very specific rules about it and notice periods.

raclle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269197#Comment_119269197

I would say its not that uncommon either. I've read a few threads on boards with a similar story.

What were the outcomes of these, if you don't mind me asking?

LJ12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269429#Comment_119269429

I think we are both in the main saying the same things. It’s a complete sh*tsh*w!

The govt haven’t closed all loopholes though there are still reasons to terminate tenancies, it says such in the link you sent.

Note: I never referred to the OP being abroad and leasing for any specific length of time, I was referring to ‘a tenant’ not the OP’s tenant.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119269515#Comment_119269515

You can terminate tenancies with a valid reason. But it requires a "valid notice of termination, which is fully in compliance with the Residential Tenancies Act 2004."

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html 
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html#la1b6d

This is why the OP needs to get advice on how to do it properly. Do it wrong and it resets.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268379#Comment_119268379

This suggestion is a terrible one.

"Garda, there's a family squatting and trespassing in my house, they haven't paid any rent in two months!"

Garda: "And what do you want me to do about it?"

"But they're trespassing! That's illegal!"

Garda: "Did they break in? Are you alleging breaking and entering?"

"No, they were our tenants."

Garda: "Then that's a civil matter. Get yourself a solicitor. Get a court order."

mrslancaster

Whatever about renting out a second property, anyone who rents out their home while they work abroad or go travelling is crazy with the way the rental market is.

Maybe the OP never rented before or didn't realise how much renting has changed in the past few years, it's been difficult enough for people who are actively involved in the sector due to the constant changes.

The days of handing over an asset worth more than a quarter of a million based on a handshake or gentleman's agreement is a thing of the past.

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268125#Comment_119268125

It doesn't work out expensive if you just refuse to pay out on a judgement and give everyone the complete and utter run around, the same as the tenant is doing in the house right now.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119268379#Comment_119268379

The o/p could end up charged with wasting garda time if they go to the guards telling lies. In any event the guards only deal with criminal trespass and would most likely tell the o/p it is civil and they would not6 get involved.

As the o/p has not posted in several days, I must assume this thread is a wind-up.

Ginger83

Would I be correct saying that as the owner was living abroad the tenant had an obligation to withhold 20% of the rent for tax purposes? Therefore the owner has no tax liability if they register with Rtb however the tenant now has a tax bill due.

Could this be used as leverage to get their property back? I don't think it would be illegal to mention their tax obligations.

daithi7

Op,

This is a lousy situation to be in

Go the legal route, but also inform the neighbours & your mutual contacts the facts.... it may help expedite matters.

On a more generalised note, this just shows what a horlicks our politicians have made of letting & property owner rights in this country.

Surely it should be a 2 way agreement, so renters give theirs prsi numbers, and if they're found to not pay rent in arrears by the rtb, they are listed on a database for would be landlords to reference. This would cut out blatant abuse of the system by some renters imho. Also where there's a dispute, rents that aren't paid to the landlord should be paid in escrow to the rtb or whoever while the tenant is in situ, and if that's not done, tenants should be out in 90 days or less imho.

Even things like uneven notice periods, are patently one sided, and stupid imho. This populist legislative stupidity is reducing supply in the marketplace at a peak time, and making a crisis even acute by making things riskier & harder for small landlords, the rental market and the greater good, when they should actually be trying to get every property rented & lived in. Bad politics and lousy legislation & ethos imho.

The OP's case highlights just one aspect of this ridiculousness. Good luck OP.

dennis72

Sorry for your situation I thought I would have the same problem fortunately mine is almost resolved

People who are abroad and own a property that let are fair game here if they want or have to return

My worry is the next step of blanket ban on all terminations did it for covid could do to prevent LLs getting out as I am now.

The lack supply is the one sided regulations and extra risk it brings

Short 1 year letting should be allowed

bennyineire

If you don't have an emotional attachment to the house put it up for sale, its a sellers market out there so should be a quick sell

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271103#Comment_119271103

it's their house they want to move back in.

machiavellianme

Plus, how is the OP going to sell a house in an incomplete state that they have no access to? Who would buy it?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271103#Comment_119271103

The problems here would be tenants refusing viewings and many banks not willing to lend without vacant possession

Girl Geraldine

I have a house and i am due to move away shortly for a year working in another county on secondment. I will be leaving the house idle for the year, maybe do a few air bnb lets to holiday makers at a push.

Absolutely, not and never will be renting the house. Too dodgy.