Tenants refusing to leave even though we are homeless..HELP

mrsinfo

Any advice or help would really help. ****NOT REGISTERED WITH RTB****

Myself and my family(2 kids) moved abroad for 1 year due to work, we rented our home to a friend and his family( not friends anymore), they knew it was not forever as the house was not finished to standards that would be allowable for renting( as it was still being build but was liveable, he knew this so we didnt register with the RTB) Anyway long story short ..... they got there notice and are refusing to leave and have not paid us any rent in 2 months and also are refusing to allow us into the property to view the place and out side is covered in dog **** that he doesn't pick up!!

Me and my family have no home and no money to rent anywhere i am sleeping on my mums sofa with my 2 kids and my husband is in homeless shelter.... how can i get them out of our home..... Not all landlords are rich!!!

whippet

Unfortunately it seems like you have landed in a bit of a mess.

First of all regardless of RTB registration if a tenant decides not to leave you are powerless to get them out without the costs and stress of going a full legal route which could take a couple of years.

My advice would be to register the tenancy immediately and then follow the correct and legal route to terminate the tenancy (RTB’s website will have details). You will need to prepare yourself for a long battle to get them out as there are little or no protections in Ireland for landlords.

Also - I am going to assume that you haven’t paid any tax on the rental income over the last 12 months - I’d look at making a declaration (you are probably not late as you usually file this return in arrears).

Best of luck with it

scarke1

We had a tenancy registered and all was done properly...out daughter and boyfriend came back from the UK in January last year.....we were supposed to tell the tenants about this in December but did it two months earlier to be nice....it all worked out fine but in the end cost me nearly 600 euro in legal fees..I had to give the tenants registered documents to advise them, then I had to submit more documents with flight details of oru daughters, her new job offer, the list was endless, and had to sign it all in front of a notary...so not sure how you are going to do all of that to be honest....there does not seem to be a way around it at all....we were lucky because the tenants needed somewhere larger but it still cost us a fortune

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252042/tenants-refusing-to-leave-even-though-we-are-homeless-help

Thats a really **** situation. If I was in your position I would just arrive at the house and move in anyway. Move all their stuff into the smallest bedroom. Live with them - after a few days of this they will soon be gone. I think you have to play dirty with scum like this.

tvjunki

Why is your husband in a homeless shelter you own a home?

2ways of dealing with this. Register rtb and pay fine. Fill in online forms and get signed in front of notory. Send copies of notice to leave to rtb and your tenants. Go through the processand make a claim to get your house back. Don't wait!

Or you could move back in but that could go pear shaped.

Contact your bank for a payment holiday as no money coming into pay the mortgage. Credit rating would be messed up.

Get legal advice now and not just from here .

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258093#Comment_119258093

I'd do the same.

OP you will be years waiting to go the legal route. If they play dirty, you jump in the muc with them. Arrive at the house with your family and create a disturbance, make a big scene, and when the Garda arrive tell them you are homeless and have nowhere else to go. I would not back down on this.

tvjunki

Could do that, move back in and your supposed tenants would have to bring you to rtb to get you out. but if you have not registered rtb they will not get involved. They were minding your house.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258229#Comment_119258229

Couldn't do that. RTB will deal with a complaint, even if LL is not registered. If they deem (and I reckon they would) that there was a tenancy in place (rent being paid over a period of time etc.), you could face a fine for illegal eviction as well as non-registration of a tenancy, and have the tenancy re-instated.

Go to a solicitor - do it right - no short cuts or DIY "justice".

This is a dreadful situation for OP, but this is where tenancy legislation in Ireland (all in favor of the tenant).

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258632#Comment_119258632

I've read on boards many times that the rtb process can take years and in the meantime the tenants are not paying rent. Just curious but always wonder what happens if an owner took their property back from tenants without going through the rtb rules. Has there been any cases or does it involve a fine/prosecution of the owner? What legislation covers it?

These types of threads seem to be popping up with more regularity. Does anyone contact their TDs?

This type of stuff needs to be getting raised in the Dail. Things wont change otherwise

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258093#Comment_119258093

You'd be put out on the street for trespassing.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258229#Comment_119258229

Incorrect they will get involved on the tenants behalf regardless of registration.

tvjunki

Just re read op post. You gave the family notice. Was it a text, letter or notice from Rtb website? By doing this you have made them your tenants.

Register tenancy and pay the late payment fee. Fill in the forms on the Rtb website with declaration that you are moving back in with your family. Start notice from the day after you posted rtb registration. Also fill in the form for 14days notice for late payment of rent. Do it by the book.

As other have said OP you need to start doing things by the book.

Your a landlord now and its not your home, it's your tenants home and you can't just evict willy nilly.

Get some professional advice.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258779#Comment_119258779

Its their house?

PalLimerick

From threshold and supported view by the RTB.

"The landlord can only enter the property with the permission of the tenant, unless it is an emergency situation".

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258768#Comment_119258768

Its their house

1/10

cronos

Sell the house. Buy another and live in that.

wonski

" it was not forever as the house was not finished to standards that would be allowable for renting( as it was still being build but was liveable"

A lot of questions to be asked.

Tenancy not registered, house not up to the standard...

Liveable? What does it even mean.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258826#Comment_119258826

Their house not their home. It's the tenants home. That's how the legislation works.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258809#Comment_119258809

Doing things by the book will mean the OP will remain homeless for possibly years while the scum tenants continue to live in the house and not to pay their rent.

Overholding and not paying rent is happening more and more in this country. In this situation it seems the tenants have all the rights which is crazy. Its time for landlords to join together and reclaim their rights. When the correct notice is given a landlord should be able to evict their tenants on their leaving date without having to go through the legal route. If tenants are not paying their rent they should be able to be evicted within 3 months without having to jump through legal hoops. As far as Im concerned the people currently occupying the OPs home are squatters not tenants.

The OP sounds like she has done this family a favour for the last year and this is how she has been repaid.

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258826#Comment_119258826

Doesn't matter if it's their house.

Doesn't matter if the gang in there aren't paying rent.

Doesn't matter if the landlord has registered them, they will still be represented by rtb.

Nothing matters, squatters or otherwise, they have rights.

You need to go the legal route. It's long, and expensive. Been there, done that, (€15k of unpaid rent and legal fees. )

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258863#Comment_119258863

The legislation should be that its the tenants home while they are paying rent - if they are not paying rent their out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258880#Comment_119258880

The law may be stupid but it is still the law.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258826#Comment_119258826

Why do you think there is a mass exodus of landlords from the market?

It's because in this very situation the laws heavily favour the tenant

PalLimerick

Nobody is disputing that.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258934#Comment_119258934

Except when it comes to the highest rental costs in the history of the state. That's in favour of the landlord, right?

That and the money they can make from AirBnB, yes?

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258880#Comment_119258880

As far you're concerned has no basis in law in this matter.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258934#Comment_119258934

More like the process for dealing with complaints is absurdly long and expensive.

If the complaints process was quick there would be a lot fewer issues.

Mr Hindley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258951#Comment_119258951

But if we had more landlords (because we hadn't driven half of them out of the market), to the extent where there was a functioning market and tenants actually had a choice, rents wouldn't be so sky high. Landlords would drop their rents soon enough if there were other landlords out there trying to compete for tenants.

LJ12345

I’d be tempted to arrive with a bunch of workmen and the loudest tools you can find and start up work on the house again, with no payment received for the ‘bedroom’ they were ‘using’ you assumed your ‘friends’ had moved on.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258738#Comment_119258738

Yeah loads, landlord gets sued and has to pay. I've seen numbers as high as 10-15k.

If the tenant doesn't pay, landlord does everything by the book, gets a judgement against the tenant for the lost rent, the tenant just moves and never pays.

PalLimerick

Honestly don't follow most of the advice here urging you to do down right stupid things regarding your property. They will land you in great legal difficulty both civil and criminal.

macvin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258951#Comment_119258951

Try being a landlord - that'll soften your tongue quite considerably.

People think airbnb is a goldmine. I've an airbnb (official holiday home that cannot be rented long term). It's full all summer long. Yippee. Circa 18k gross rent. Yippee - until you see the net result.

airbnb fees, insurance, electricity, gas, weekly cleaning, annual replacement of many things, tv licence, redecoration and then tax. After all that, the NET income on the house is about 7k.

I'd love to rent it for about €1000 a month, my net would be similar but planning says I can't. Even if I could, tenants simply have too many rights so it is not worth the risk. The larger institution landlords don't have the same issues as they have a department that deals with these issues very quickly through the legal system

L1011

People can stop with the illegal "advice" and only give actually useful stuff, thanks.

PalLimerick

The problem landlords say they have is that the eviction takes so long and is a slow process whether it's a department for a big rental company or a single landlord dealing with it. It's the same process.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258951#Comment_119258951

Even with high rents droves still choose to leave. Why I wonder.

I even know an auctioneer who owns a property that is empty years. He has been asked many times to rent it and the reply is always the same. Not worth the trouble mate with over half the rent heading for Dublin and it only taking one bad tenant to ruin me financially so it can sit there for the kids.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259078#Comment_119259078

Exactly that.

Better to have it sit idle and slowly appreciate that take the risk of renting it out to someone you don't know.

In fairness, I feel for the tenant too. Likely not a hope in hell of finding a better deal in all the country, so why not hold out for as long as possible. Again, it's the fault of the market for not finding alternatives.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258960#Comment_119258960

Look at the UK. A couple of months and a bad tenant is escorted out willingly or not

Move into the local gard station. You have no where else to go. Tell them, tell the news, name your friends

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252042/tenants-refusing-to-leave-even-though-we-are-homeless-help

You sound like a bit of a soft touch and a poor judge of Character. You've too many mistakes made at this stage. Your only option is the to go to the rtb and start the whole process. Bad news is it could take 6 months+ to remove them and worse case even after the rtb rule in your favour you may still have to go to the District court to get an enforcement.

On the positive side, the whole process is quicker now that the last stage is via the District court rather than the Circuit court which was more expensive and a lot slower. Also if you are in financial trouble or struggling make sure to let the rtb know and apply for legal aid from them if needed.

One other thing, do they pay the Utilities, are the Bills in there name or was it an agreement that they would just sort out the bill but your name remained on the it?

daithi7

I think your best bet to expedite them leaving might be by some 'soft' influence. You said these people were your friends, which means you possibly know mutual friends, colleagues and/or relations??

I think I'd warn them that you're going to tell all your mutual contacts the facts (ensure to keep it at just that), if they persist on trying to hang on to your house and not pay you rent.

This afaik is perfectly legal, and while they are freeloading scum, they may not be so stupid. Might be worth a go.

The threat of telling your mutual friends should be more effective than actually telling your mutual friends imho.

P.s. get legal advice before considering this

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252042/tenants-refusing-to-leave-even-though-we-are-homeless-help

Tenants need better protection in Ireland. You are forcing them out of their home in the middle of a housing crisis just to suit your situation, thats not fair, where are they going to go? basically you dont care and are just looking out for yourself, thinking of places like germany where people rent for years, or even a lifetime. Thats the rights tenants need, now you have backed them into a corner so they wont pay rent, wont leave because basically they dont have a choice in the current market. 40k - 50k people just entered Ireland over the last few months, so competition is stiff for new places

Mrs OBumble

If the threat of telling mutual friends doesn't work, then start telling them. No exaggerations, just the 100% truth.

Alternatively, the professional landlord approach is to offer to pay them "moving expenses". Likely will take a few grand, and it needs to be clear that they don't get the cash until the property is handed over, in similar condition to what they got it. And possibly you will need to provide a good reference for them, so they can find somewhere else to go. Both of these things will hurt your pride, a lot. But the reality a toss up between them, or taking months / years for the legal processes.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259632#Comment_119259632

Ffs...if the op is accurate they knew it was a temporary arrangement, she gave them notice, they aren't paying what they said they would, they arent taking care of the place etc......its her house........its warped that anyone could side with the "renters" here despite the many errors the OP made.......

It's the landlords need protection from total one sided bullshittery and the people of Ireland need protection from disastrous govt meddling in the property market and installation of quangos interfering with property rights/natural justice etc

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259089#Comment_119259089

Thats the way it should be.

If you play silly games then the sheriff comes around and kicks your family onto the street after a few weeks.

That's the way the system works anyways, only with years of delays.

But honestly, I feel for the guy occupying the house. I'm getting evicted in 6 weeks and there is NOTHING on the market. Not even overpriced stuff.

Thestart

I would remind them that they need to pay the rent and leave when the notice period is up. If not, you will bring a case to the RTB and will not give them a reference for a new rental.

I would tell them that they need to think about the position they will be in when this ends, no place to live, no reference and a visible overholding case that any future landlord can see. The market is very difficult for the best of tenants, impossible for a family with that baggage.

The decisions the tenant is making here are potentially going to really hurt them in the long run.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-case-outcomes

when I’m renting out a unit it’s the first port of call. Just put in the names and see what comes up!!!

it’s not all on the landlord!!!

cruizer101

Does anyone have any actual idea what the consequences for moving back in ideally with links/references, lots of mention of being taken to court and fines but honestly if I was looking at homelessness or possibility of a 5k fine for moving back in, I'd likely be moving back in.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260209#Comment_119260209

The decisions bad tenants make have a knock on effect for other tenants.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119259622#Comment_119259622

That's what we call blackmail in our legal system. OP, don't take this dreadful advice