Excellent article on how important small landlords are and how screwing them over hasn't worked

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351783#Comment_119351783

Well then there's one of the problems I'm getting at

There's no real jeopardy for the non paying residential tenant.....there should be.....there is jeopardy for a farmer not paying.....a lot in fact.

It's a bad system that leaves all the risk on one side of the transaction ....the transactions will stop happening and the market will dry up

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351782#Comment_119351782

Look. There is no point comparing two different things. If I decide to buy a US Treasury in the morning with a yield of 1%, and you decide to buy Bitcoin.....and it doesn't go well for you.... well you can't turn around later and compare my decision to yours and say "I should be bailed out..... it's not fair. How would you like it if your Treasury went to zero - you wouldn't so I should be compensated"

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351795#Comment_119351795

Again another absolutely terrible analogy....one person buying bitcoin and the other Treasury bills🤣......oh please, I know you can do better because if you can't its a sign of how badly flawed your argument is.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351793#Comment_119351793

You can't get blood out of a stone. If you think that you might need to go looking for blood, then don't rent to a stone in the first place.

Plenty of lads rent out land at below "market" rates because they know that the person has a reputation of paying on time and looking after the place. Others do get stung though too. It's not the case that everyone gets paid all the time. And, unlike your residential rent, they might have your land for a year before you learn that they aren't gonna pay!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351797#Comment_119351797

It's as ridiculous as your comparison. You want to compare someone buying land and not renting it out, to someone who buys a house to rent it to tenants.

If you want the risk profile and return of the land, then buy the land. If you want the risk profile and return of the house, then buy the house. You can't expect the risk profile of the land in return for the return from the house.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351781#Comment_119351781

The point is not the that the LL in farming has more avenues of recourse.

But that the sector itself is exactly what he claims to despise in the Private Rental market. In fact its mostly not true of the Private Rental market but is in agriculture.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351807#Comment_119351807

As I said, you have a great imagination. I have to admire the confidence with which you proudly display your own ignorance. You appear to think I was advising you to buy agricultural land and rent it. I was explaining to you why you shouldn't - you wouldn't be able to afford it if you would be depending on cash flow from it to pay back its loan. Even the expert above with the 15-year negative equity property on the interest-only loan wouldn't be able to keep their head above water. It was to contrast the entitlement that is commonly displayed among "small landlords" that they think they should be entitled to sign a loan agreement, have no risk, and their tenant should be necessarily required pay enough to cover all their interest, capital repayments, maintenance and income tax. That's an absolutely ridiculous, toddler-level, sense of entitlement.

If you are unable to manage the rental of your property, I had indicated earlier that one option is to sell. There is of course another option - the State may be able to swoop in an take care of it for you. There are long term rental schemes and shorter term options too. Guaranteed rental for both and they take care of all the internal maintenance for the former.

Ray Palmer

Does anybody really believe a person who has said they have extra time because it is summer holidays has money to buy a land portfolio?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352132#Comment_119352132

I have bought land and I know a bit about it. Again you are waffling. Less than 2% of land changes hands every year. A buyer's of land is at a distinct disadvantage if he goes renting

Most renting and buying of land is driven by tax at present. If you inherit land or a business you can inherit ten times normally tax free if you fulfill certain conditions.

It's an online efficient way to transfer wealth. In the case of land doubly so in that if you inherit you are allowed to longer term lease it tax free. The return is in the 2.5-3% and you only pay PRSI and USC if under sixty five.

If you farm it you can sell up to 750k of it of you fulfill certain conditions when over is it 50, 55 or 60 years of age without paying CAT

So guess what DT your waffling again

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352166#Comment_119352166

Too true. I hope they aren't involved in anything to do with reading comprehension. 😁

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352247#Comment_119352247

WB = Warren Buffet = Waffler Bass.

Learn to read Bass. And tell me what in my post is incorrect. I said I intend to buy land. You respond that I'm lying because less than 2% of land changes hands annually......logic isn't your strong point it appears.

BTW, There is an analogy to Agricultural relief known as Business relief. The difference is that there is no asset test for Business relief. And to further correct your waffle, there are also ceilings on the tax relief for leasing depending on the length of the lease.

You might live an a part of the country with poor land and low prices. But you won't get 3% rent in this part of the country. Maybe if a lad has boggy sh1tty land that is useful to someone for the maps then they might get it. Not in this part of the country though. If you land is worth 5k an acre and some fella needs the maps, you possibly could get 150 rent off him. You also think that a fella with land trying to laese it out is "at a distinct disadvantage" .... again not in this area as available land is like gold dust.....you still won't get 3% for it.

Thread is about "small landlords" and their inability to cope and constant whinging. Maybe for the sake of your mental health you should consider leaving the market if you can't cope to this extent.

Oh, and one final point. CAT is for Acquisitions. Gift or inheritances. CGT is what you pay on Gains.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352132#Comment_119352132

You'd have to deluded to think anyone would confuse that bigoted strawman ranting with investment advice.

Like that nuts Hummer analogy.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352348#Comment_119352348

Do you have any "facts" which you'd like to share with us? Would you care to translate the below to something resembling a coherent sentence?

But that the sector itself is exactly what he claims to despise in the Private Rental market. In fact its mostly not true of the Private Rental market but is in agriculture.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352288#Comment_119352288

Well in relation to reading comprehension, I would probably take the time to read a loan agreement at least. I don't think you'd find me, after 15 years, complaining that I was still in negative equity. I definitely wouldn't be whinging about it on the internet looking for sympathy!

Flinty997

"...A charity supporting tenants says people are being made homeless because landlords are selling.

Threshold Chief Executive John Marc McCafferty said that governments over a whole generation have "relied on the private sector for housing and the private rented sector for housing but there simply isn't the affordability".

Meanwhile, Mr Doyle says it is more attractive to sell properties at the moment than to rent...."

Nothing more complicated than that. More attractive to sell than rent.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352334#Comment_119352334

I did not say you were lying in my post I never mentioned anything about you buying or not buying land. I pointed out that comparing land and houses returns is disingenuous due to tax factors at present. I also pointed out that the farm rental market is driven by long-term leasing on which you only pay PRSI and USC if below 65 and less of above 65.

On rental prices they vary across the country from about 100/acre to price above 500/ acre. Like any rental product the price dose not track value exactly but on average it around 2.5-3%. average land prices over the whole country is around 8k average land rental is about 230-250/acre.

So again you are waffling.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352166#Comment_119352166

Lol. Strange thing to be worried about. What I have or don't have isn't affected by what some random anonymous person on the internet thinks.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352439#Comment_119352439

Bass, you are putting a lot of effort into contradicting "points" that I never made.

Ag relief is difficult if the people non-farmers are leaving it to already have assets and have no relation to farming. Business relief might work out easier for them even if they needed to put a structure in place.............I'd be buying it anyway but I am aware that if some randomer were to leave me land tomorrow, I could be in difficulty as regards ag relief as I'd have to get revenue to agree that the value of what I was inheriting was 4x what I have myself in non-ag assets.

I don't think average rents across the country are 230-250 an acre but that is beside the point. Plenty of anecdotes about lads getting 500 or 600 off a big dairy man, but those are told because they are outliers.

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352373#Comment_119352373

Wha? You write some weird stuff. What sympathy or whinging? You claimed that there was an easy way out for suppliers. There isn't. Is contradicting your gibberish with reality what you're calling whinging? Gas. Next you'll be claiming you only select stocks for your investments or pensions that only ever rise! Prophet of boards here. 🤣

You also made up some nonsense about upward only rent clauses (which nobody here proposed), when you're the same eejit sneering at anyone who didn't ram rent reviews down tenants necks to squeeze every penny out of them. You can't have it both ways boyo. It's an effect of the current legislation. No clause needed.

In the same breathe as giving out that suppliers are screwing people, you also complain that they are stupid not to screw people.

Are you going to tell us your magical business? :D

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351799#Comment_119351799

I think both sides of a transaction should get a fair shake.....simple as

As things stand I don't or wouldn't want to buy a house to rent it out as the rules/regs which actually encourage tenant delinquency mean its not an attractive option (not to mention some other highly fishy rules which seem to have a ratcheting effect on prices) .....as evidenced by the amount of landlords leaving the market while houseprices remain attractive.....that's dysfunction in a market brought about by populist regulation which doesn't help landlords or tenants imo.

So I think its the rules that lead to the problem. If the rules/regs weren't as one sided in favour of the tenant (even just when it comes to landlord recourse to remove non paying/delinquent tenants) .....I believe rents would be lower and there would be more rentals available in that instance as opposed to what's actually happened on the ground due to the increasing deluge of nonsense one sided regulation....I've seen this bullshit evolve since they moved to get rid of bedsits.

Fair play is good sport essentially.

I'm not whinging and moaning as you like to characterise anything that goes against your opinion. I'm not in the market as a landlord or a renter. That's my assessment as an outsider although I do have context as my parents used to rent out houses when I was a kid and even then with way less nonsense regulation they were more sinned against than sinning with a small cohort of tenants (in fact that's doing them a disservice, they always did their best, some of the stories I remember would make your blood turn cold)

And as for the Treasury bills bitcoin guff....I'm still smiling here😁

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119352504#Comment_119352504

There is an easy way out. You can cut your losses and sell if you don't want to do it anymore.

There are people called "estate agents" who will organise it for you. They'll advertise it for you and market it to buyers. Then you will need a solicitor for conveyancing. Perhaps, if you are elderly and not able to navigate these things yourself, a younger relative or trusted friend might assist you.

L1011

I don't think this thread can be salvaged.