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New referendum on dispora voting due

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    None of this is true of the non-resident, and I really can't see any reason why we would think that the non-resident should have a voice in determining what the Irish police can or can't do, what schools or hospitals Irish residents should provide for themselves, etc, etc.

    A simple question thus. Why is Ireland one of the few outliers in the EU regards this? As I posted above, the French in Ireland got to have a say about who their next president is. Australians in Ireland will get to have a say in the Australian election next month. Etc.. etc...

    You honestly think that we are more civic-minded and more enlightened about our participation in government and democracy than the French and Australians (or the Germans, Swedes, Danes, Poles, Dutch, Kiwi's...etc..)

    I think not.

    The simple reason is, that we have not done this before, so it is alien to people, so their gut reaction is to reject it and come out with nonsense soundbites and the like.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Which is all fine, if the Irish have left the country for ever or even a 'long time' anyone leaving in a temporary basis, should still be afforded their right to vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    That is a poor argument. I didn't see the introduction of the USC either before it was introduced.

    You do realise that no party has an overall majority thus it's a compromise anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    That was brought in as an "emergency" tax during a financial crisis. Voting for the president isn't a crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I think a 10-year timeframe is very fair IMO. After 10 years, if you are still living abroad, chances are you are not coming back and/or you are a citizen in your new country and can vote in those elections.

    Most EU countries give you a time limit, but some have none at all, like the French for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yet, it still wasnt in any Manifesto. Lots of things get legislated on and are not in Manifestos. So your argument on that point is Null.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    It may be null, but they are currently talking about a referendum, so someone agrees with me.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I rarely contribute here. But


    1) It's not tax, it is consequences.

    2) We give passports out like sweets. There are millions of passports out there.

    3) The president would be ok. Senate less so. Parliament, not at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The point made was that there was no need for a referendum on this, on a point of law.

    However, it seems having a Citizens Assembly for any tricky political problem is now how we run the country. From housing to voting rights to planning, everything tricky is getting shoved off the Citizens Assembly to discuss, which is kind of ironic as we already have a Citizens Assembly, it's called Dail Eireann. That is besides the point though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭sdanseo



    Thanks for the informative post.

    I like the idea of the vote for President for the Diaspora, because Presidents are more an international representative for Ireland, typically treat the interests of the diaspora well, and, frankly, aren't involved in the making of local or national policy.

    If you want to be involved in that: you should live here and pay taxes here. The rest of use either choose to, or have to.

    Of course there will be the argument that many who have left Ireland because they feel the country is run poorly and should have a say in reform which might allow them move back. So a balance might be the proper solution: voting allowed for the remainder of the current government and for the next two general elections; effectively leaving no form of Dáil franchise for those absent more than 5-10 years at which point at which you are probably settled wherever you are and aren't for returning. Referenda for the same period. President for life. Local/European entitlement ceases when you leave.

    The ECJ can determine what it wishes, but ultimately nothing supersedes the Constitution of a member state and ours does not allow emigrant voting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    On your last point: Incorrect, the constitution does not bar overseas voting. It is entirely silent on the matter.

    And further: the Constitution recognises the primacy of EU law. If freedom of movement rights are unjustly or disproportionately restrained by either Irish legislation or administrative laws and are found to be as such by the ECJ, they fall, simple as.

    Post edited by Yurt2 on


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If a certain cohort could be arsed getting organised it'd be a great laugh if we ended up Nigel Dodds in the Aras.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,677 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Don't think he qualifies (don't you have to speak Irish)?

    Gerry Adams, in the other hand, I think world get support.


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭combat14


    exactly its pathetic the elected citizen assembly (dail) handing over the important matters to be decided by the unelected "citizens assembly" - its a disgrace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    They are just proposals from a public forum and they can all be rejected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,913 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s a bizarre referendum really.

    i think the 3 year rule is appropriate.

    people who have left the country 3 plus years won’t have a cognisant first hand experience of the challenges, positives, benefits, unfair elements of Irish society that impact people here…. so I don’t think after 3 years it’s appropriate that they can have a say….

    the cost of running a referendum is approximately 15 million. I can think of a lot better ways for the state to spend 15 million euros.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    The last Presidential election had the lowest turnout numbers ever, less than a million and a half people voted, so it's not surprising that they're pushing this nonsense. I would be happy if they would stop wasting taxpayer money on pointless referendums. I'd like to see the public given a referendum on things that actually matter to us. The geriatric in the mansion in the park is not value for money in my opinion. He's irrelevant, the office of President is irrelevant. Nobody who lives outside of Ireland should be allowed to vote in elections or referendums here.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/low-turnout-presidential-election-4309871-Oct2018/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,968 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    This strikes me as another one of those soft "feel good" items that distract the population from the rather more serious and immediate issues facing them for a few weeks so beloved of FG over the last few years.

    Of course, as happened with the SSM referendum, anyone against the idea or even raising questions is labelled as a dinosaur and worse than Hitler. That's not to say that SSM passing wasn't a very good thing (it was!), but the campaign around it on social media was a rather ugly one sided thing - as these things have become generally once the Twitter crowd get involved, where anyone not vocally in support of whatever the agreed position is shouted down or rounded on.

    Everyone should be free to express their views on an issue, regardless of whether it's popular or fits in with the approved consensus on an issue. Ultimately it'll be decided in the ballot box.

    On this particular question though - no, I don't believe that people who've left this country to start a new life elsewhere should continue to have a say in elections or referenda here. They no longer live here and are not directly connected to or affected by the issue regardless, and as I've said, the damaging power of social media is one to be concerned about - we've already seen how it's affected elections in the US for example and the social division and unrest that the propaganda and manipulation results in. Do we REALLY need or want that here too? Our electorate is already too influenced by social media and polarised on certain issues as it is.

    Additionally, why should people not living, working and part of society here have a say in policy decisions or elections that will affect only those who are? It doesn't make sense and given the potential numbers of external voters coupled with the online element, it would have the very real possibility of their votes overwhelming the votes of those actually here.

    Not a good idea. This country has already given away too much control to others (the EU) without further diluting what little influence we have left over our own lives.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    I am not comfortable with the idea of allowing people who are not actually living in Ireland to vote in Irish elections, aside from a postal vote for people who are working or studying abroad for short periods of time. Anyone who has moved abroad permanently should be involving themselves in the social and political life of their new homeland (subject to local rules). Accordingly, I would much prefer to afford the right to vote to immigrants who have been living in Ireland for a number of years (say 5 years) - even if they have not applied for citizenship - before giving it to an emigrant. National politics should be driven by and for the benefit of the people actually living within the boundaries of the nation state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,561 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Nothing gets decided by the Citizen’s Assembly. The make proposals to Government which all go through the normal democratic processes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    That looks like maybe 20 or 30 people. I've seen bigger queues outside Dunnes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    We already have a citizens assembly, it's called a general election. People vote for parties based on the policies they want to introduce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,561 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It doesn’t work, particularly for social issues, when people are mostly voting on economic issues.

    it was the Citizens Assembly that gave a clear indication that a majority would vote to legalise abortion. No general election would have given that indication.



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