Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Seth Brundle

Can we please move on from the discussion about how much of the Luas is on the Nortsoide?

Seth Brundle

Just saw this 360° video of the trip from Fairview to Connolly by bike for those unfamiliar with the route...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z31pU2N1I4&list=PLZeu6U1bMaVgdMr3lW13jTe12MyIJJSSU&index=3

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888108#Comment_118888108

There's a total of 23 cars illegally parked along the Fairview stretch - and that's only on one side! Will be great to see that issue hopefully resolved with the new layout

Effects

Someone posted pics of some of the same cars seem there on a facebook group, mentioning the illegal parking, and it descended into "cyclists break red lights/have no insurance/dont pay road tax" within minutes.

LXFlyer

I think that the real issue that I am reading is that unfortunately many people have preconceived negative ideas about the bus service in the city, probably based on some bad experience that they had years ago, and therefore conclude that public transport is dire.

That is going to take time to change, and frankly snide comments on either side don’t help. It is going to need a culture change and that doesn’t happen overnight. But this project is about delivering real improvements in the road infrastructure for buses as well as cyclists - that cannot happen without the major works that are starting.

It is also simply not true to say that there have not been improvements in public transport in the area northeast of Fairview and along the works area. The NTA intervened to make sure that buses would stay on the existing route at all times during the works which is important.

There have already been public transport service improvements in Northeast Dublin and there are more coming shortly this year:

The H-Spine was launched last year along the Howth Road which means buses on that corridor are now operating to an integrated schedule and are operating with extended hours and higher frequency.

Two high frequency (every 10 minutes) east/ west orbital routes are due to launch in the coming months as below, which will see a vast increase in journeys offered.

Route N4 will link Blanchardstown SC with the North Docklands via Ballycoolin, Finglas, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road, Alfie Byrne Road and East Road, terminating beside the 3 Arena every 10 minutes.

Route N6 will link Finglas with Howth Junction via Poppintree and Ballymun and then via the existing 17a route also every 10 minutes.

DART frequency along the core section between Howth Junction and Bray is every 10 minutes

Other bus routes have seen service frequency increases - the Malahide Road has three high frequency cross-city routes in the form of the 14, 15 and 27 along it each of which increased in frequency during the past two years.

The 15 now operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The TFI 90 minute fare launched in December allows people to switch from one bus to another, or to the train or LUAS as much as people like within 90 minutes of starting out for €2.30, and this fare will drop by 20% shortly (as will all other public transport fares).

Further changes will happen as the new BusConnects network is rolled out with more local and orbital routes to come in this area next year.

Some people choose to ignore all of this, because they wouldn’t be seen dead on a bus or train, but if the infrastructure can be delivered, then a far more reliable bus service will follow. High frequency orbital routes mean that changing buses should become a more palatable option.

The bus service certainly needs the infrastructure to be improved to deliver a reliable and dependable product, and DART will get new rolling stock over the next few years too.

In summary there are definitely public transport improvements that have been delivered and more is happening soon.

noelfirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888108#Comment_118888108

Anyone viewing that as "a grand aul cycle track" is a bit touched in the head, to be frank.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888195#Comment_118888195

The joys of Facebook groups 😂

p_haugh

"Some people choose to ignore all of this, because they wouldn’t be seen dead on a bus or train"

And ironically, these same people would more often than not gladly use the bus/metro of whatever city they're in while on holidays abroad

howiya

I won't quote LXFlyer's excellent post due to its length but it sums up my experience of using public transport in Dublin Bay North or Dublin North East whatever people want to call it.

I'd like to think I'm not one of the people referred to in the first paragraph as my preconception of public transport was based on good experiences. Before I moved to the area I had the option of bus/luas into the city centre and my preconception of what to expect from public transport was based on this. You essentially knew that if you left at X time you'd be at your destination for Y time. You'd swap between bus and luas at different times of day for reliability/speed. Then I moved to DBN, specifically Beaumont, and lost out on the reliability part. Poor reliability often meant losing out on speed too and despite it being a much shorter (almost half) distance to the office the journey time was often the same or in worst cases longer.

As I didn't have the option to drive in, I continued to take the bus. I used to complain on here a lot (maybe too much) about the bus service. I have seen first hand the improvements referred in LXFlyer's post over the years I am in the area and they have made a huge positive difference to my commute and use of public transport in general for non work journeys.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888261#Comment_118888261

One lad even said this cycle path was going to delay traffic to such an extent that people would miss hospital appointments, and it would put too much stress on an already burdened hospital system. 🤣

LXFlyer

Thanks “howiya”.

It is important to state that while the cycling elements of this scheme are being treated as the main headline, actually the single largest number of people to benefit from this scheme will be bus users. Reliability will improve and numbers using the bus will hopefully grow.

Effects

How are busses going to get past the daily blockages from Westwood users that stop in the bus lane, rather than parking in the overflow carpark and walking 150m. 😂

The fact this is a daily occurrence shows the Gardaí don't really care about dealing with motorists.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888219#Comment_118888219

It is not necessarily years ago. Did you ever wait for a bus and the timer on the stop is counting down and the bus then just disappears off the list and never arrives? Happened with me 2or 3 times in the last year and the most I would get the bus is 5 or 6 times in a year. DART is fine though

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888959#Comment_118888959

I'm a member there. Every day I see the absolute morons queueing and making a huge jam on the road. There's another car park literally 20 meters away! But they'd rather sit in massive queue for 10 minutes so they're 30 seconds walk closer to the door of the gym.

This is how stupid and lazy motorists/people are and this is why physically restricting access is the only thing that works, give me an inch and they take a mile.

Effects

I'd have thought Dublin Bus would at least get Gardaí to deal with it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890069#Comment_118890069

Presumably given the precedence of the College Green Bus Gate, they would look at being paid to enforce the law ...

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2020/07/15/as-agencies-pay-gardai-to-police-transport-matters-some-councillors-call-for-more-transparency

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118889891#Comment_118889891

Well that can happen if the controller doesn’t cancel them when they’re not operating.

It shouldn’t but it does on occasion.

I don’t think you can draw a conclusion from that small a sample other than you were VERY unlucky.

However I would suggest using the TFI real time app. It marks cancelled departures, and you can see the live position of any bus on the map and as a general rule if a bus doesn’t have a flashing dot beside it in the list, then it’s reading from the schedule rather than applying the schedule to the live position, which means there’s a good chance it isn’t running.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890069#Comment_118890069

There are moves to bring in ANPR penalties for exactly this kind of problem. But it’s very slowly going through the governmental system at present.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890105#Comment_118890105

That makes perfect sense now. On the quays a few years back, loads of people driving up the bus lane. Rolled my window down to ask the the Gardaí in a car to my right about it, they responded that there was nothing they could do about it.

And I constantly see cars going both ways through bus gate, often with Gardai cars behind them, and nothing's done about it.

cgcsb

This thread must surely be satire? There will be full access for all vehicles maintained at all times. Itz a project that will finally attempt to create a reasonable quality bus and cycling corridor in a city with shockingly bad public transport and cycling infrastructure. You're going to be very upset indeed when bus connects comes round and far reaching reductions in road space for cars come about.

This is one instance where DCC has not ballsed anything up.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874128#Comment_118874128

Very few commutes in Dublin, we're talking single digit percentages, are longer than 10km.

And yes the geography of fairview is such that unless you're commuting from spongebob's house under the sea to the city centre, there's basically nobody using Fairview on a long distance commute. People saying that they need to drive because of the distance are either a tiny minority of commuters or in the case of fairview, simply lying.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870285#Comment_118870285

Yes, I counted myself and can reveal that 99.9% of rush hour congestion is composed of either people with their granny in the passenger seat heading to a medical appointment or people heading to do an 8.30am trip to Aldi to bulk buy.

People who write these things must surely be tongue in cheek?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890712#Comment_118890712

i know road widening etc. will cause much disruption (if they get the CPO and planning permission) on the Malahide Road, but will these new bus lanes be enforced at all? are they going to be segregated? I don't really see the point in bus connects if it will be the usual free for all.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890935#Comment_118890935

That's the million dollar question. I've heard that we could have enforcement as early as next year with cameras. If that's true it would be huge. I think it would slash bus journey times, most delay on rush hour bus trips in my experience is spent queing with cars in bus lanes. If that went the service would become dependable around the clock with the existing bus lanes. Joe Duffy would be snowed under with calls from folks who think it's a disgrace that they have to follow long established laws.

I myself can't see it happening, the culture isn't there, nor is the political will. If the cameras were brought in and it was managed by software, there'd be little or no way the TDs, gardaí or well connected folks could get their fines cancelled.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890036#Comment_118890036

Back when I wasn't a member there, and was just bringing the kids to the swimming lessons there, I'd drive into the carpark occasionally. The overflow carpark was limited to members only. There's definitely been no advertisement to me that the policy changed either, so a lot of parents might not realise.

Of course, there's still people who drive in even though they're members. They're weird.

Qrt

Forgive me for ignorance, but how will bus users be helped? Are there not bus lanes in both directions as is?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118901354#Comment_118901354

Segregated cycle lanes means that cyclists and buses won’t be sharing the same space - that can cause issues, as buses have to try and move out to overtake cyclists.

The bus lanes themselves are being extended closer to junctions, and added to around Connolly and Clontarf Road.

You might say these are only small things, but when you add them all up, cumulatively they can make quite a difference.

Spook_ie

Hope whoever is in charge makes sure the lights work correctly. Was coming from Alfie Byrne to turn right onto Malahide Rd. last night

Four sequences of lights I sat through with no right filter arrow before I risked an "illegal" right turn on the " presumed" stuck filter.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118902662#Comment_118902662

I though it was supposed to be just cyclists that break red lights!

Out of curiosity, why did you write illegal in quotes. You broke a red which would have been illegal and not "illegal" as if it is more minor

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118902662#Comment_118902662

Have you reported them to DCC?

They’ve a 24 phone line

https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/transportation/faulty-traffic-signals-lights