Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

johnnyrotten

So the balls-up has started since last night which makes Fairview from clontarf to Edges corner a single lane with bollards down the centre.

This will be a permanent feature and works will take 21 months.

9320

You might want to change the title of the Thread to - Transformative Sustainable Transport project finally starts work.

There will be issues in the first few weeks with people, like yourself, who didn't know it was happening but that will dissipate over the coming weeks as people look at alternative routes and alternative transport modes.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239649/balls-up-in-fairview

Unfortunately, roadworks don't magically get completed at the snap of a finger - things get temporarily worse for a short period of time before they get better (in this instance, a 1,000 times better!)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239649/balls-up-in-fairview

Pavlov's cycle lanes..........They're both permanent and have a life span of just under 2 years, apparently.

johnnyrotten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860572#Comment_118860572

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860572#Comment_118860572

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860572#Comment_118860572

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860572#Comment_118860572

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860777#Comment_118860777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860777#Comment_118860777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860777#Comment_118860777

Nah, balls-up is most suitable....

I already knew about this unsustainable project. For some people, there is no alternative

9320

For some yes - for most no. Should we focus everything on benefitting the few?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058239649/balls-up-in-fairview

It's a very small price to pay for keeping the lycra brigade happy.

And you wouldn't like them when they're unhappy - they ring their bicycle bells very loudly.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860572#Comment_118860572

By which you mean rat runs and congestion on those routes - cycling and overcrowded buses isn't for everyone, but this anti-motorist agenda (until they are expected to spend a fortune in tax, fuel and insurance that is!) is getting very tiresome.

Dublin is not Amsterdam or wherever you like to compare in Europe where metro systems, integrated public transport options, and the luxury of having had the opportunity of designing these things from the ground up because half the city was flattened in WWII, are the norm and it never will be - especially when we keep pricing people further and further out of the city through housing policies and yet then paradoxically want them to trek back into work every day anyway.

But I know I'm wasting my time here as any non-cycling/PT views are unwanted these days, not just here but in the offices of the "planners" and decision makers.

Macy0161

 the luxury of having had the opportunity of designing these things from the ground up because half the city was flattened in WWII, 

The likes of Amsterdam and Copenhagen were rebuilt as car focussed cities - they made a decision in the 60's to move away from the car.

Idleater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866262#Comment_118866262

I was going to post similar, one site i was reading states "the first metro lines were only laid in 1977”

https://www.iamsterdam.com/en/plan-your-trip/getting-around/public-transport/metro/expansion-of-metro-line#:~:text=The%20Amsterdam%20metro%20system&text=The%20first%20metro%20lines%20were,pass%20under%20the%20city%20centre.

From that link it sounds like Dublin with the swampy ground.

Podge_irl

By which you mean rat runs and congestion on those routes - cycling and overcrowded buses isn't for everyone,

Neither are cars. This is such a nonsense point trotted out every time as if bikes are being mandated as the only means of travel from now on. Far, far more is spent on infrastructure only available to private motorists and far, far more real estate is given over to them.

ARX

Amsterdam wasn't half-flattened in WW2.

https://toursinamsterdam.com/amsterdam-in-wwii/

Hamburg, on the other hand, took a pasting, and their cycle infrastructure is crap.

Warsaw also took a pasting, and they have very good cycle infrastructure.

I don't think that cycle infrastructure was at the top of the agenda when cities were being rebuilt after the war.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861606#Comment_118861606

No, we should focus everything on facilitating, not benefiting, facilitating wider society… what about elderly, people with illness who can’t get on a bike ? That the comfort and safety of a car is the most responsible and safe for of transport…

GLaDOS

I'm sure it's posted somewhere, but is there a link to the actual plan?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866496#Comment_118866496

Is there something in the plan about banning cars that I didn't see?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866518#Comment_118866518

No but plenty about ballsing up the road network to the extent that car, motorcycle, van and truck journeys take longer meaning more emissions…

dublin49

was bad today at 2pm on a dry bright day,heaven help us on a wet dark rush hour,was in the middle of it and berated myself for nor doing rat run through Marino,that allied to the massive new development on Griffith ave will make other forms of transport more attractive.Agree with the intention until I get stuck in the outcome,probably the day of jumping in the car without planning to go anywhere is coming to an end.

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866496#Comment_118866496

Cars aren't for everyone. Car ownership is much higher among the rich and also among men. 33% of households in Dublin don't own a car.

Public transport is relied upon disproportionately by women, the less well off, older people and younger people. These groups have often been left behind in transport planning, because much of society thinks the 9-5 office worker is the most important. Public transport is far more inclusive than private cars, so if we want to facilitate wider society, then this is far more important.

end of the road

great to hear another sustainable project is happening that will benefit the people and reduce traffic.

it will be a fantastic success.

we can no longer afford the amount of car use and space wasted because of it that exists in our cities.

it is gone past being any way affordable and we have to get those disproportionate costs, direct and indirect down.

that means cycle and public transport infrastructure, high congestion charges with a view to ultimately remove all cars from the cities to out of town multi-stories to then take PT in, large scale pedestrianisation, green spaces etc.

time to take back our cities and make them livible spaces, improving the health and sustainability of the them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866496#Comment_118866496

What about those that are too young or too old or too disabled or too poor to have a car. Cars are far from universally available. Not everyone can drive.

Those who want to continue to drive can drive. They’re not getting banned. Yet.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866569#Comment_118866569

Great to see the new found concerns for emission levels from the car promoters.

If you really are concerned about emissions, you know what to do.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866608#Comment_118866608

Yes, let’s hope that the days of unnecessary car journeys are coming to an end.

magicbastarder

about this 'old people can't cycle' - how much traffic on say amiens street is made up of people too old and infirm to cycle, who are driving instead?

and maybe there are old people who would like to cycle. i know a couple of people in their 80s who still cycle; cycling is easier than walking when viewed purely in terms of efficiency of locomotion and impact on joints. it's not easier in terms of security of the bike, or sense of safety when using public infrastructure, but the latter point is one which is being hopefully addressed with this development.

johnnyrotten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866689#Comment_118866689

There is no doubt that public transport is great, if it's available. Unfortunately the Northside of the city has been left behind in this regard, no Luas, metro shelved again etc.

This mess will just mean lots of vehicles stuck in jams spewing out fumes.

There is always a queue of cars to get into the gym ffs.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869354#Comment_118869354

Just in case you missed it, both red and green Luas lines have substantial north side runs.

magicbastarder

ah here, the luas red line never goes more than about 200m north of the liffey. this development is about providing means to get into the city centre from the northeast of dublin, which neither luas line facilitates.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118868887#Comment_118868887

Ah, yes, "unnecessary" car journeys. How dare you be so judgemental about my car journeys, or anyone else's.

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869354#Comment_118869354

Hence this project. It probably would not have gone ahead without it's large public transport component, as part of BusConnects. It's one of the busiest bus corridors in the country, so improving the bus infrastructure here is very important.

You can't bemoan the Northside being left behind on public transport and then give out about a massive public transport investment project for the Northside. Buses are an extremely important component of any transport system. More than twice as many people in London use the bus as the Underground for example.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869415#Comment_118869415

your reaction would suggest that you think that no car journeys being made currently, are unnecessary?

and if your car journeys are all necessary, he clearly wasn't talking about you anyway.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869604#Comment_118869604

No, I don't: but how are you to judge if my car journey is "necessary" or not? This is authoritarian, self righteous Bullsh*t.

I suppose I could play this childish game and ask if your bus or bike journeys are really "necessary". But I won't.

Thelonious Monk

I'm actually really enjoying the moaning out of my friends over this, and the complaining and moaning on this thread. Been cycling through Fairview for 30 years to get to school/work at this stage and it's an absolute mess. Finally they're sorting it out, on the busiest cycle route in the country, and motorists bitching about being held up for a few minutes. I'm just drinking it in, enjoy the traffic jams folks, and remember it's all Eamon Ryan's doing just to satisfy the lycra Green elites like myself who are rich enough to live within cycling distance of their cushy jobs.

magicbastarder

No, I don't: but how are you to judge if my car journey is "necessary" or not? This is authoritarian, self righteous Bullsh*t.

I suppose I could play this childish game and ask if your bus or bike journeys are really "necessary". But I won't

no one suggested your car journey was unnecessary. AJR just mentioned 'unnecessary car journeys' in general. it's you who's making this about you.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869410#Comment_118869410

Have you met the Dart? It’s a rail line exactly like the Luas, serves exactly the area you’re talking about and carries lots of people.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869667#Comment_118869667

i was specifically addressing the comments about the luas.

Phil.x

Email your frustrations to.

sean.haughey@oireachtas.ie

chiefexecutive@dublincity.ie

eamon.ryan@oireachtas.ie

micheal.martin@oireachtas.ie

magicbastarder

isn't a significant part of the disruption due to water mains works anyway? i'd say if it was just rearranging the top few inches of the road surface to put in cycle infrastructure, it wouldn't be taking nearly as long.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869727#Comment_118869727

Absolutely delighted for you Phil. And there's no turning back now, the cycle lanes are happening. You lose!

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869762#Comment_118869762

Yes but the angry hard pressed working man motorist brain will not be able to take the full picture on board. This is all Greens and salad box Ryan's fault.

growleaves

..

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869648#Comment_118869648

My previous post was in reaction to the following: "your reaction would suggest that you think that no car journeys being made currently, are unnecessary?" Note NO car journeys. I did not state that, hence my reply.

I was not talking about my car journeys, so to say its me making it all about me is a complete misrepresentation. When i referred to "my" car journeys, maybe I should have said anyone's car journeys, for the benefit of people who are looking for offence. It's typical of the ad hominem nonsense coming from people who don't know how to have a rational argument. I must say it reveals the self-righteous nature of so many people on threads like this.

spurious

Ah now we know well someone will be digging it all up again in a few years.

I haven't driven towards town during the height of rush hour yet, but just in middle of the day driving what seems to be an unnecessary delay happens going into town with the wait to split for Annesley Bridge Road and Fairview Strand. The arrow allowing cars to go left seems very late, if people actually obey it.

It's a bit woolly as to what the traffic changes will be for the bits happening next year. Maybe they don't know yet.

magicbastarder

I was not talking about my car journeys, so to say its me making it all about me is a complete misrepresentation. When i referred to "my" car journeys, maybe I should have said anyone's car journeys

Indeed, maybe you should have.

Thelonious Monk

Just cycled through Fairview and it seemed ok to me, just a bit of a jam coming out of town

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869624#Comment_118869624

The Census tells us that large numbers of car journeys are <4km, distances that could easily be walked or cycled. But instead, most of them choose to sit in their multi-tonne tank, usually surrounded by four empty seats, and complain about cyclists taking up all the space on the road.

See the irony?

magicbastarder

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

those figures date from 2014.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870107#Comment_118870107

Car journeys of <4km can be quite necessary, like my drive to stock up in the local supermarket, or perhaps take an elderly relative to visit the doctor.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870285#Comment_118870285

The tired oul trope of bringing me granny to the doctor to justify driving to shops for milk or worse, driving to the gym for exercise.

How many of the 4km journeys do you think involved bringing the granny to the doctor?

There are other ways to do your shopping too.

https://twitter.com/DaymoBrew/status/1509827374996766763

Economics101

ANdrew J Renko: you said in reply to me: "The tired oul trope of bringing me granny to the doctor to justify driving to shops for milk or worse, driving to the gym for exercise."

That twists and misrepresents what I said.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870285#Comment_118870285

Well looks like your elderly relative is screwed then with this bike lane going in lol

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869678#Comment_118869678

I know what you were doing but it seems like a vacuous post to bother clarifying. Johnnyrotten was basically saying: “Oh no, my part of dublin which is probably well served by buses and has a heavy rail line doesn’t also have a light rail line so it’s unacceptable to build a cycle lane because everyone is forced to drive.”