Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

El Tarangu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875833#Comment_118875833

I'm from the northeast of Dublin, and the area is served by the Dart, and no less than three bus routes, all three of which pass through Fairview, so am delighted at the reduction in bus journey times that these works will bring. Am struggling to imagine where it is you could be driving from that is seemingly so bereft of public transport options.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882637#Comment_118882637

Yeah it's hilarious on Twitter everyone with the usual tired trope - sort out public transport first and then make these changes!!!!1

I'm from and live in north east Dublin too, it must be one of the best catered areas in Ireland for public transport.

spurious

I drove in past the roadworks today during rush hour.

The usual yellow box blockers were having their effect, but that is nothing to do with the works.

Lots of private cars taking the bus lane.

The traffic moved along inwards, though at one stage what looked to me like two suicide cyclists shot out from the left at speed - I can only presume they went rogue and that they are not being guided from the footpath side of the park back out into the traffic?

The main delays seemed to be outbound and they were substantial. Fair amount of ducking up through Marino by the old post office to avoid the jam at the junction. Yesterday a food van stopped to unload at Marino College there - that caused great fun.

Podge_irl

The main delays seemed to be outbound and they were substantial. Fair amount of ducking up through Marino by the old post office to avoid the jam at the junction. Yesterday a food van stopped to unload at Marino College there - that caused great fun.

where is the old post office? I thought the route through the Marino estates had been more or less blocked by one way roads to stop that kind of thing.

The outbound is always a mess because Malahide road drops to 1 lane. Nothing in these works will change that, at worst they move the merging problem slightly further into town.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884479#Comment_118884479

The PO is the first left after the pedestrian footbridge. Great shortcut for cyclists as that corner by the bike shop is a death trap on a bike, especially with Numptys flying up the inside in the bus lane.

The thing is, vehicular traffic isn't technically allowed go that way, but I've never seen it enforced.

Seth Brundle

The thing is, vehicular traffic isn't technically allowed go that way, but I've never seen it enforced.

You can even see one car on Haverty Rd facing the wrong way on Google Streetview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874886#Comment_118874886

6 stops on the Northside outside of the city centre. Six. There are more LUAS stops in Tallaght alone than there are on the northside, so he's 100% correct in poo-pooing the assertion there is a "substantial" LUAS presence over this side of the city.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874128#Comment_118874128

Marino, Killester, Beaumont, Raheny, Donnycarney, Clontarf, Dollymount, Artane, Coolock, Raheny, Kilbarrack, Donaghmede, Belmayne, ClareHall, Kinsealy, Portmarnock, Malahide, Howth, Baldoyle, Sutton........That's a lot of areas with a huge population, and not everyone is within walking distance of the DART, at either end never mind both.

The catchment area is huge, with essentially two main roads into town serving all of them. They've no other way, so that's why they go that way.

Seth Brundle

Marino, Killester, Beaumont, Raheny, Donnycarney, Clontarf, Dollymount, Artane, Coolock, Raheny, Kilbarrack, Donaghmede, Belmayne, ClareHall, Kinsealy, Portmarnock, Malahide, Howth, Baldoyle, Sutton........That's a lot of areas with a huge population, and not everyone is within walking distance of the DART, at either end never mind both.

The catchment area is huge, with essentially two main roads into town serving all of them. They've no other way, so that's why they go that way.

Not being close to a train station is not a reason for "needing" to drive into the city centre. There are other options for people. People choose not to use them and then make claims that public transport is poor, etc and at the same time happy to keep the status quo rather than redesign road space which would make public transport quicker. The majority of people who drive into the city do not need to drive and could jump on a train/bus/luas/bike/walk/whatever - they choose not to - I used to do that myself when I drove into the city daily, justifing it to myself because simply I wanted to sit on my own in the car and be able to smoke. If more people used these alternatives then the roads would be less congested for those who actually need to drive in.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869401#Comment_118869401

Compared to their south side runs, it's nothing. Sure the red line is never more that 50m from the river.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884629#Comment_118884629

Ah yes, thanks. I have used that myself on the bike many times - for some reason in my head I thought that was a one way road rather than just a no-right turn.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884703#Comment_118884703

I grew up in Donnycarney. That area has probably the best bus connections of the entire country. Thankfully, due to much development and restriction of private cars it is also quite a quick bus service.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884703#Comment_118884703

Except he didn't poo-poo any assertion about substantial Luas presence on the northside.

He made a poo-poo assertion himself that there was 'no Luas' on the northside, which is nonsense.

johnnyrotten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871958#Comment_118871958

Metro has been delayed because of funding

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869401#Comment_118869401

This is the post they replied to. They responded by insinuating you were smoking crack if you really think that there is a substantial presence of the LUAS on the Northside because, subjectively and objectively, Both red and green lines having a "substantial" Northside run is clearly a load of bollocks.

You're the one who used the term substantial. He refuted it and you replied with a map which proves his point more than yours. Up until that stage / point, he never mentioned anything about there being 'no luas' on the Northside, unless I missed it?

When it comes down to it, he's spot on. Only 6 stops further North than, what, Dorset Street? Hardly what anyone would call substantial.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118885049#Comment_118885049

I'm not saying it's not well serviced. I'm just pointing out that the assertion being made (I.E. where are all these people coming from?) is staring them in the face. There must be close to a quarter of a million people living in the areas I mentioned, when totalled.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884629#Comment_118884629

You can still just continue up to Marino Park, go around it, and come out at the same spot, and you'll save time. I do it myself rather than drive through Fairview. I don't see a problem with it, but I drive slowly through built up areas. A lot of people don't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884818#Comment_118884818

Look, not sure if my first post was misinterpreted, but for the avoidance of doubt: I'm not trying to justify their actions, I'm all for PT and I cycle into town more often than I've ever driven in.

But making blanket statements of incredulity serves no purpose and makes posters look foolish. People saying stuff like "North East Dublin?.... Sure you have the DART over there, whaddya need to drive for?" is completely ignorant of the reality on the ground. Imagine telling someone in Kinsealy they should be happy they can spend an hour walking to Portmarnock train station. How long would it take to get to the Dart from Seafield Road in Clontarf or Tranquility Grove in Kilmore?

The Dart is great, but serves a miniscule portion of the city. Walking anything up to 15 mins to the station and having to wait 10+ mins for the train is pretty feckin masochistic when you'd be in the North Strand by that stage if driving. Haven't even mentioned the weather yet, even.

And that's why people drive. Not because they need to, but because the alternative is unacceptable (to them).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886369#Comment_118886369

You missed it.

And Northside doesn’t start at Dorset St.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886460#Comment_118886460

I cycle that way every time I use the bike to get home. I'd say the ratio is about 10:1 in terms of cars taking the right vs taking the left and going all around the big green and popping out opposite Carews new pub, whatever TF he called it.

In anything other than very heavy traffic, though, its quicker to stick to the main roads. I've seen tailbacks of maybe 10-12 cars before as the auld lad at the front isnt assertive enough to rejoin traffic on the Malahide Rd quick enough.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886463#Comment_118886463

I think you are forgetting about the hassle of driving. 15 minute walk to the Dart is good for you, and will make you feel better than sitting in a car.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886476#Comment_118886476

1. Where did I miss it, thanks?

2. I never said it starts at Dorset Street.

But let's give over the pedantic act and talk rationally here. Dorset St isn't even a mile from O'Connell Bridge and, of the 20-odd stops on the NS, Only 6 of them are further north than that mile. You could even move the line closer to the Liffey and use Parnell St as your marker, and still you've only 6 stops further away from town.

Fewer than a third of the green stops and just over a third of the red line stops are on the North of the city, and I could hit the river with a golf ball and a driver from pretty much any of the red stops.

How in the name of Christ can you call that "substantial"?

Telling the majority of Northsiders to whisht, they should be happy they have loads of red line stops is like telling people in Tallaght they should be grateful for the Dart stops along the coast. They're pretty meaningless, in the grand scheme of things.

AndrewJRenko

See screenshot above of the post you missed.

How about we stop moving the line at all? How about we keep the traditional northside/ southside border of the Liffey?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886524#Comment_118886524

You're preaching to the converted here. I'm well aware it's better for you, physically. But if it makes you late for work, then that means SFA.

How much better for you is it if you're soaked to the skin and catch a cold? Or get fired because there's leaves on the tracks and you were late to work, again? This is the sh1t we're up against. I've had these exact arguments with coworkers for 20 years.

I know people who rang in sick every time they had a flat tyre or the car wouldn't start. "car's banjaxed, sure how else can I get to work?"

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886592#Comment_118886592

How about you get fired the first time you get stuck in traffic?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886582#Comment_118886582

Didn't show up first time, no idea why its displaying properly now.

In reply to your second point, because of reasons I already posted. The red line is fcking meaningless to pretty much 99% of the Northside. The green line too, bar the catchment area close to the 6 stops towards the Cabra end.

Any reply to the rest of my post or is it just the pedantry that you're dishing out this evening?

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886463#Comment_118886463

I get the point you’re making and I agree to some extent but walking 10/15 minutes for a train is perfectly normal both in Dublin and other cities internationally. I live an 8 minute walk to the Luas and I meet people walking much further than that every morning.

Very few commuters will wait 10 minutes for a Dart. There’s a timetable and the Dart for all it’s problems is actually pretty reliable. Most commuters will time their walk/cycle so they arrive in time for a specific train.

The reason I’m saying this is that people look at all the downsides of public transport and tell themselves that driving is faster. Driving from the suburbs (specifically) to the city centre is almost never faster than public transport. Not when you factor in traffic delays, finding parking, de-icing your car, walking from parking to your work, etc. Those traffic delays (if you’re relying on the M50) are far more unpredictable than public transport.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886592#Comment_118886592

Similar stuff applies to cars though. Traffic times can vary greatly.

spurious

This morning's fun was at the Alfie Byrne where it joins Clontarf heading towards town. Previously a full lane and a yield, the city bound lane was closed off and city-bound traffic shared space with one of the two right hand turning lanes, resulting in long delays back to the Clasach building for those wishing to turn left.

Up by the actual roadworks moved freely enough. Lots of high spec (Tesla. Audi A6, usual suspects) whizzing up the 'bus lane'.

Effects

Those motorists sure know how to break the rules 🤣

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886606#Comment_118886606

My reply would be to point out how funny it is that you have to keep moving the border of the northside to support the claim that there is no Luas on the northside.

There is Luas on the northside.