Prime Time housing debate: Eoin O Broin vs Darragh O'Brien

iColdFusion · 05-02-2022 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585895#Comment_118585895

He has obviously no experience in building but also completely oblivious to the well publicised facts that councils are failing miserably to refurb their own existing stock when it comes free never mind being able to purchase and rebuild another 5000 per year, hes delusional!

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40739988.html

Honestly the government should take their billions and just buy out Cairn homes or Glenveagh, give them access to public funding, public land banks, part 8 planning via each local council and set them to work on doing what they actually know how to do, building homes!

I mean f#ck me they are the easiest things in the world to build but we keep hearing how our various council and government depts full of highly qualified, well paid architects, engineers and quantity surveys are somehow not up to that task 🤪

Just don't bring back Mick Wallace to run the thing 😄

Finty Lemon · 05-02-2022 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585774#Comment_118585774

Apologies if I have misunderstood, but are you saying you vote SF in the hope they will "punish" certain sectors of society?

How will they decide who deserves punishment, and what form will it take?

The experience in many other countries has been that electing parties who wish to negatively target a particular sector of the population, ends in catastrophe for everyone.

Dyr · 05-02-2022 3:43pm

The only people Eoins rainbow army will punish are joe taxpayer and the native Irish

Finty Lemon · 05-02-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586535#Comment_118586535

We will all take a beating

jrosen · 05-02-2022 4:00pm

It made for pretty poor watching. I dont think Daragh is strong when it comes to debate and I expected Eoin to be prepared. He simply wasnt.

Saying we need more houses is as obvious as it gets.

Im no expert but houses are being snapped up all over the country which tells me that plenty of people can afford to buy. There is no shortage of people being mortgage approved and having the finances ready to go.

I just dont think the housing issue will be solved anytime soon and I dont think any party is really up for the task.

astrofool · 05-02-2022 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586332#Comment_118586332

What's the cost of buying 200 houses vs. paying the rent on 200 houses? What budget do the councils have to spend?

astrofool · 05-02-2022 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586369#Comment_118586369

I'd imagine as soon as they were bought out those at the top would leave, form a separate company and then charge the council for those services (it's what I would do).

There is a reason private enterprise doesn't get bought out by public institutions.

maccored · 05-02-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586535#Comment_118586535

the 'native' Irish? is this a new kind of irish person?

05-02-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586631#Comment_118586631

I don't know, but I would imagine buying 200 properties (probably at a discount) and owning those properties, is still better value then renting them forever.

05-02-2022 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586662#Comment_118586662

A new kind of dog whistle!

astrofool · 05-02-2022 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586709#Comment_118586709

Why does anyone rent anything then? Budgets are finite, buying 200 properties would cost roughly €80m, that houses 200 families, if I rent instead then I can house 4000 families instead, now it's not just one or the other, but there has to be a mix if the budgets are to be sustainable (with renting, the owner also has to pay for refurbishing, as pointed out above, the council is much slower and more expensive doing it themselves).

Timing belt · 05-02-2022 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586234#Comment_118586234

The USA is the only country I can think of that can run a huge unsustainable public debt and can only get away with it because they the dollar is the reserve currency of the world.

If the dollar ever got replaced with a electronic currency that became the reserve currency of the world you would see hyper inflation in USA over night.

Furze99 · 05-02-2022 8:08pm

I've been keeping an eye on O'Broin since he was a regular and favoured 'guest' on O'Eadhra's Late Debate. Always struck me as a nasty piece of work. Maybe he has the wits to make a difference but I kinda doubt it. He knows the brief, is great at swinging between sniping and promising - but will that lay any blocks? Could he lay a block himself?

Murph85 · 05-02-2022 8:20pm

in the uk, when a council house becomes available, it is simply offered to the next person on the list, as it is... Maybe should be adopted here. If you are getting as good as free housing, beggars cant be choosers.

Melanchthon · 05-02-2022 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586521#Comment_118586521

I more mean that they will have their influence vastly reduced, the legal sector badly needs reform as an example it's something the EU wanted so not exactly a radical thing.

These groups have always been a priority and apart from maybe developers/builders they aren't actually wealth creators people that grow the economy.

I also think weirdly SF might be stronger on crime and reign in the judges which is a concern for a lot of their base.

Basically my point isn't that SF are very effective and can't be corrupted. It's that they don't have the generational loyalty to "official Ireland" and the same back and forth between them, republicans to some extent having been traditionally sort of shut out from them.

It's my hope anyway but as I said I don't actually expect SF to be very effective

Fred Cryton · 05-02-2022 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118579423#Comment_118579423

Yep. Great at shouting that there's a problem, but no real details on the fix. Bottom line is no-one is going to magic up new homes unless we make all land free of charge, pay the workers building them third world wages, somehow get hold of materials at a fraction of their market price, remove all fire hazard requirements and other regulations, and magic up new land in the city where we can actually build these new magic houses.

Unless we do all of that, then the prices ain't coming down.

iffandonlyif · 05-02-2022 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118588300#Comment_118588300

Very few people consider the practicalities of building houses. O’Brien referred in the debate to unlocking ‘capacity’, but that’s self-defeating jargon if he doesn’t spell out what it means.

Timing belt · 05-02-2022 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118588244#Comment_118588244

SF can be corrupted and are no better than any political party when it comes to ethics....

just look at the Jonathan Dowdal case.. water boarding and now up in front of the special criminal court for the biggest gangland event in the history of the state.

Do you think he was incorruptible because he was a SF councilor?

My point is that there will always be bad eggs in every political party and saying that one political party has better ethics and is less corruptible than another is bull.

Another example is covid restrictions SF ignored them with their big funeral up the north and gave two fingers up to everyone that had to watch a funeral of a family member online. FF/FG were no better with their golf gate and other incidents.

Melanchthon · 05-02-2022 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118588359#Comment_118588359

I am literally saying it's not that SF aren't incorruptible, it's that they aren't part of the "official Ireland" style nepotism networks

Finty Lemon · 05-02-2022 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118588244#Comment_118588244

Reign in judges? Are SF planning to abolish the separation of powers in the state? Thats veering toward totalitarianism.

I am curious about the idea that SF are not corruptible.

HerrKuehn · 06-02-2022 11:49am

I was surprised by the debate to be honest. I felt Eoin was a bit of a spoofer but I thought this debate should have been easy enough for him. Darragh came off as being more informed about what is possible. Eoin was unable to explain how we can get to 40k houses. I was trying to understand what Eoin meant by councils building or buying homes and selling them as affordable homes. Are they really going to buy on the market and sell cheaply?

I suppose it depends on your circumstances as to which party will be better. If you don't work and are waiting for the state to house you, SF are the best option. If you are working and are looking to buy, unfortunately the incumbents are probably the best option.

Eoin is the SF prodigy, the rest of the party are completely clueless. I would love to hear Mary Lou tell us that David "up the r@" Cullinane has great ideas for the health service.

vriesmays · 06-02-2022 3:03pm

When elected SF will build 1000s of new homes for non-nationals.

markodaly · 07-02-2022 6:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585423#Comment_118585423

That is a very good point.

We have had the usual SF types on here and elsewhere on social media parroting the line that we need the state to take a much more direct approach to building houses, as if that was a magic bullet.

Yet we know the waste that comes with that process. The same people giving out about the state not being more involved in housing are the same ones giving out about all the qangos and the HSE.....

Clearly people don't think too hard about their arguments.

blanch152 · 07-02-2022 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118588515#Comment_118588515

I would expect the opposite.

The poster makes the claim that Sinn Fein don't "don't have the generational loyalty to "official Ireland"", and that this is a good thing.

It is more likely to be the opposite. Sinn Fein don't have any loyalty to the democratic pillars of the state in the police, the army, the judiciary and the prison service. They spent many decades supporting efforts to kill members of those democratic pillars. Giving them the reigns of power would be very dangerous. A SF Minister for Justice is likely to curb the powers of the Special Criminal Court, giving terrorists and criminal gangs free reign. Plenty of good republicans will rejoice when that happens. It wouldn't surprise me to see Sinn Fein introduce a compensation scheme for those convicted by the SCC as a way to give handouts to their mates.

One of their most famous slogans is based on taking revenge on others - our day will come.

Mike Murdock · 07-02-2022 11:09am

Sinn Fein's election mandate reminds me a lot of Homer Simpson's when he ran for Sanitation Commissioner. "Crazy" promises with nothing substantive to back it up.

Simple solutions and soundbites to very complex problems, will not solve the issues related to housing, homelessness, healthcare, or the cost of living in this country.

HerrKuehn · 07-02-2022 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593995#Comment_118593995

Glad someone else remembers that episode. I believe 100%, if Homer was running for garbage commissioner here people would vote for him.

Mike Murdock · 07-02-2022 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594021#Comment_118594021

Sure we had our own Diamond Joe Quimby here for years.

Sterling Bertie Ahern!

iColdFusion · 07-02-2022 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118593995#Comment_118593995

All I can see from SF in power is that they will increase taxes, increase borrowing and just throw big piles of cash at whatever issue is the hot topic of the day in the hopes they will buy the election after that, the fact that O'Broin couldn't go on national TV and slam dunk a housing debate with 4 or 5 innovative rock solid commitments to resolve the housing mess shows how out of their depth they are.

Seriously he could have speed read one of the housing threads on here 10mins before going on TV, regurgitated 10% of the ideas and come across as more competent but clearly he has no power to dictate party commitments which does not bode well for them in power.

SF are also making zero noises about getting public sector spending under control, increasing efficiency, dragging public sector bodies into the 21st century with new IT systems etc, you'd think that would be another slam dunk with the electorate but they don't have the courage for that road it seems.

technocrat · 07-02-2022 1:33pm

I read an article a few weeks back in the sbpost that quoted EOB complaining about the amount of SHD applications that went through planning at the end of December.

He was insistent this should have stopped earlier in the year as it allowed developers to build more units... Yes he was complaining about new supply of homes while at the same time pontificating the housing crisis was primarily due to lack of supply!!

This guy must be the greatest spoofer of a politician to exist in recent times and unfortunately is never off the TV or airwaves where he waffles on unchallenged.

There was another planning case in the docklands where a developer was refused an application to add extra floors to build more apartments, yet EOB was on twitter next day gloating saying the decision was correct and giving 2 fingers to the developer.

Unfortunately the younger generation are brainwashed by SF who have a strong social media presence and play populist politics on every issue.

HerrKuehn · 08-02-2022 9:02am

One thing SF could do to immediately increase the supply of council houses would be for SF TDs on €96k + expenses who are living in social housing to house themselves privately. I have no idea how TD John Brady in Bray can justify living in subsidised housing on his salary when it is such a precious resource. A lower income family would benefit hugely from moving in there.

blanch152 · 08-02-2022 12:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598433#Comment_118598433

It's the entitlement culture.

Jinglejangle69 · 08-02-2022 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594456#Comment_118594456

Don’t forget SF want to lower the voting age to 16.

Veey clever manipulating young people who have zero life experience.

Brucie Bonus · 08-02-2022 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118583417#Comment_118583417

No ta.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/defective-celtic-tiger-homes-to-be-focus-of-new-working-group-1.4354041

imagine if we were leasing/buying them, bailing out the developer, and then paying to bring them up to code?

Never mind NAMA buying them and NAMA selling them at a loss to hedge funds and the like.

08-02-2022 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598433#Comment_118598433

But, but, but…..They only take home the average industrial wage, plus their expenses, with the rest going to the party. He’ll need somewhere to like when he loses his seat at the next election. Didn’t Ruth Coppinger live in social housing, despite being a teacher and TD?

StupidLikeAFox · 08-02-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601706#Comment_118601706

They don't do the average wage thing anymore (not that they ever did)

Pussyhands · 08-02-2022 10:20pm

Why do we need these investment funds at all?

If it's financially viable for funds to buy land and sell/rent, how can it not be viable for the government to get billions in loans and then sell the houses for a small profit and pay back the loan?

Timing belt · 08-02-2022 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602817#Comment_118602817

The funds were needed because the government would have broken rules around the amount they could borrow. The EU only relaxed these rules to deal with covid but are more than likely going to reform them and allow debt to implement a green agenda. If Government can blag that housing is green then they possibly could do it but it would cause major issues with some EU states as it would more than likely lead to more inflation.

downtheroad · 08-02-2022 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601706#Comment_118601706

Don't forget how Liadh Ni Riada let slip in the Presidential debates that Sinn Fein were taking the average gross salary in Ireland as their net pay. Complete apples and oranges.

The economists that featured in the report before the debate should be brought into the Dail and asked to resolve this. I think it was Ronan Lyons who hit the nail on the head, that house prices in Leitrim now are the same price as they were 15 odd years ago. Supply exceeds demand and keeps costs down. Either companies need to be encouraged to move out of Dublin with even better tax breaks than they can currently avail of, or supply in Dublin needs to increased exponentially (however people have to realise this won't be cheap due to our cost of labour, the cost of materials and the building legislation and regulations that exist in Ireland).

08-02-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602933#Comment_118602933

Back in 1999 we were considered moving from a rural area into Clonmel town and had 3 local auctioneers view and value our house. Thankfully, we didn’t move. However, I had our house valued for LPT last year and it was still the exact same value! A 3 bed cottage on an acre of ground. I was gobsmacked!

Brucie Bonus · 08-02-2022 11:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602817#Comment_118602817

Why do we need these investment funds at all?

Because you can't bribe yourself.

Jinglejangle69 · 08-02-2022 11:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603193#Comment_118603193

Who bribed who?

Brucie Bonus · 08-02-2022 11:39pm

I don't think it's fair to leave the Greens out of this:

Dublin South West TDs John Lahart TD (FF) and Francis Noel Duffy TD (Green) have lodged submissions in support of residents’ objections.

Mr Duffy claims the apartment blocks, ranging in height from two to five storeys, are “out of keeping with the existing development in the area and is excessive” though he said he did not have a problem in principle with homes being built on zoned land.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/two-dublin-tds-back-local-objections-to-113m-housing-scheme-1.4666597

Mr Martin on Wednesday night said the controversy over cuckoo funds leasing social housing to local authorities masks the Government’s “wider progress on housing policy”.

He implied that a Sinn Féin motion condemning tax breaks for investment funds which lease social housing to councils had diverted attention from the wider picture.

Leasing off them and giving them tax breaks. Sweet deal.

MM seems to think building our own is the way to go and councils are the very men/women to organise it 🤔

He told his party’s parliamentary party that the “absolute focus of the Government is to drive on with direct builds of social and affordable housing”.

“The best value is to build our own stock. The Shangannagh plan (a publicly-owned site in South Dublin managed by the LDA) this week shows our intention to employ this model across the country with social, affordable and cost rental on scale,” he said.

Mr Martin said the Government had already progressed important legislation on housing, climate change and marine planning. He told the meeting that local authorities now need to get projects moving.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-defends-progress-on-housing-as-tds-told-not-to-expect-overnight-results-1.4614348

https://i.imgur.com/t2YSaXv.jpeg

jm08 · 08-02-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118601706#Comment_118601706

Council rents are based on house income, so council will do well out of Brady having a well paying job. All worked out for you on SF Thread. Based on his Dail Salary he is pay about 1500 per month. If he had been able to take out a mortgage 20 years ago, he would be mortgage free at this stage. County Council still has the asset of the house and a regular income from it.

I don't think you should have to move out of social housing when the rent is based on house income and particularly in the case of Brady who has lived in that house since 2000 and would have children settled in schools etc. in the area. And thats a good point you make about job security being an added reason why a politician should not move from the house that his family made their home for the last 20 years.

Ha Long Bay · 08-02-2022 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603359#Comment_118603359

DCC do not charge like that. €265 X 4 = €1060

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/top-earning-city-council-tenants-most-likely-to-default-on-rent-1.4106254

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s29548/3ii.Report%20from%20Rental%20Model%20Review%20Working%20Group.pdf

Jinglejangle69 · 09-02-2022 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603359#Comment_118603359

That’s some ninja maths you’re doing there.

Try again, use a calculator if you have too.

jm08 · 09-02-2022 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118602968#Comment_118602968

People seem to forget that the housing crisis is only really in the Dublin area.

20,000 homes were built in 2021. Of those, 6,000 were social/affordable with 14,000 built for purchase and rent and of those, 5,000 were one off homes and so not for sale. That has left 9,000 houses in the State built for those who are not eligible for social/affordable houses.