Prime Time housing debate: Eoin O Broin vs Darragh O'Brien

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605965#Comment_118605965

Its been used several times to try claim....I don't know what. I've not seen any debunked posts just rants about bots. Easier than defending government policy I imagine.

Great to see MM coming around even if much too late. But better late than never. FF and SF and SD and PBP all saying building our own is the best way to go.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605965#Comment_118605965

Would you say there is a fair bit of bitter anti government party bullshite coming from SF supporters at all?

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606138#Comment_118606138

not really. not anything that isnt true anyway. the difference is the fear. some of the anti shinners sound like rabid DUP supporters who think everything SF is evil or that all SF voters are dole lounging stupid people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605729#Comment_118605729

No it's not better. The state should be providing accommodation for those unable to provide for themselves.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118605491#Comment_118605491

Yes not everyone in Dublin works for Google, microsoft or facebook. But there are higher paid jobs in Dublin because most HQ are based in Dublin. Using your example of Bankers the jobs that are based around the country will be branch workers who are paid a lot less than the back office roles that are based in Dublin.

There are more higher paid jobs in Dublin just look at the stats on the CSO website. That means people have the ability to pay more for property and when supply is as low as it is it pushes prices up as people compete with each other to buy property.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606152#Comment_118606152

Hilarious. It is the hypocrisy that is the worst part. A SF supporter can say whatever they want, because it is "true", but any criticism of SF is just bitterness. Some of us think the DUP and SF are very similar parties, they are like the 2 cheeks of an unwiped arse, peas in a pod if you like.

A lot of people have genuine concerns about SF in government, it would be partly due to the expected incompetence, but also their connection to a terrorist organisation. Many of the people involved in the IRA are still involved in the party and some of the TDs are openly supportive of the IRA, look at that complete moron, David Culllinane. Would he be our future minister for health?

It seems like SF, after years of trying to get something to stick have finally hit the jackpot with the housing situation. People laughed at the "EU stealing all our fish" and the "hundred of billions in gas we are giving away for free". But it seems the gullible have been conned with the simplistic housing promises.

The whole thing is just a sideshow for SF main priority which is a united Ireland. Ironically they will make a UI more difficult to achieve as we need to convince moderate swaying unionists and you don't really persuade people by blowing them up and firebombing them do you?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606237#Comment_118606237

Be honest, every debate be it housing or health involves government defenders discussing the IRA. Which is avoiding discussion, unless the discussion relates to the IRA. Its a form of going to ground.

You're ranting about fireboming unionists in a housing thread ffs :)

Then we have attacks on politicians family members and their personal circumstances, again to avoid discussion on housing or health and the like.

I'm not a shinner but any party calling out government on sweet deals, bad policy and cronyism gets my support. And its obvious defenders of the government parties are desperate and often bitter.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606296#Comment_118606296

I think SF supporters wishing mention of the IRA would go away is a bit like the Catholic church wishing people would forget about the sexual abuse cases. Some of us will never forget it. There would be nothing that would convince me to vote for SF, they could cut my tax rate in half and I still wouldn't vote for them.

In the future they may become a normal party, but in my lifetime there will always be those connected to the past. Even the most "palatable" SF TDs are comfortable with it.

https://www.independent.ie/news/sinn-feins-eoin-o-broin-comfortable-with-commemorating-ira-man-whose-firebomb-burnt-a-woman-alive-in-front-of-child-she-pushed-to-safety-40737058.html

Ash.J.Williams

It’s time for change

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606237#Comment_118606237

Right on cue - heres a case in point above.

'The gullible have been conned with the simplistic housing promises'. like, what planet are you on anyway? rather than just admit the government have made a complete bollocks of housing, you claim the gullible support SF.

Thanks for proving my point

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606347#Comment_118606347

Yes, in my opinion gullible would be a good description. Housing is a much more complicated problem that it is made out to be by some on here. We had a property crash, the state was massively in debt and we had very high unemployment until only 6 years ago or so, it was still 10% in 2015. I will trust my own instincts with respect to SF, they have served me well so far. Thankfully I am not sitting around waiting for the state to do something to change my situation. That would be the worst situation to be in.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606390#Comment_118606390

neither am I - yet I am a SF voter with a well paid job and a house etc. Gullible are those who keep voting in the same idiots. brings me right back to my original point.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606405#Comment_118606405

I am not particular concerned about a SF government by the way. I don't think very much will change. Any political party here finds it impossible to think long term as the electorate doesn't reward it, it is always about the immediate easy option. I think the most likely outcome would be more of a focus on providing housing for those waiting on social housing. Eoin even mentions the state building AND purchasing housing to this end in the interview. So, if this happens and he is competing with FTB, there will be a fair bit of negative news around that and they might need to row back on the social housing promises a bit or entirely (easy option). They will be unable to increase the number of houses built in any way as the state does not build houses, it hires people to do it and the people able to do that are already busy.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606328#Comment_118606328

No, that's a deflection from my point. You are in a housing discussion thread talking about the IRA firebombing unionists. And all while complaining about alleged SF supporters saying what ever they want. You are avoiding a discussion on housing in a housing thread.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606549#Comment_118606549

I wasn't complaining about SF supporters saying what they want, just pointing out the double standard. It seems SF supporters can say what they like about government parties, because it is "true" apparently, but are very sensitive to any criticism at all.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606568#Comment_118606568

Maybe its because people want to discuss housing and if they are critical in any way they are labeled shinners so people like yourself can dodge the housing discussion to talk about unionists getting firebombed? I'd say thats frustrating whether someone is a shinner or not.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606663#Comment_118606663

So, to summarise it is fine for SF supporters (note I have not been using the term shinners) to say what they want as they are frustrated, but others cannot say anything?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606686#Comment_118606686

No. If they are going way off topic I'd call them on it. But if you don't like their criticism, maybe defend what they are critical of?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606724#Comment_118606724

I am not here to defend government parties. I think ministers and TDs are basically sales people. They sell their view to the electorate and hopefully also to the CS/PS (who will actually do the work). I understand that the issues are complicated and I don't think there are simple solutions. In the debate, I think Darragh came off better actually, surprisingly enough. He was at least able to explain his ideas rather than hand wave about refurbs. Any construction by the state will be done by construction companies, overseen by the relevant CS/PS departments, the same as now. These are the same people who bring you the children's hospital for example. The state (employees) doesn't have a great record at delivering things. So, from that point of view Darragh is more realistic, Eoin was unable to explain who will actually be doing the retrofitting etc.

SF supporters are very quick to bring up things like Varadkar leaking the doctor's contract, but very defensive of any criticism of the commemoration of the firebomber recently. I am happy for both to be discussed.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606790#Comment_118606790

Its obvious you're only interested in attacking SF. Which is fine but I'm not sure why you want to do that with people being critical of government housing policy.

I don't bring up FF/FG/Greens and the continued tradition of protecting the child molesters and baby traders in the religious institutions.

Anyway, each to his own.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606296#Comment_118606296

Ill be honest I dislike SF as their policies are populist bollixology with little to no basis in reality, whose default position will be tax people more.

I think they are divise and have no real solutions. I worry about them because they have no real talent beyond maybe 2, and just want to further put us into debt.

I feel much the same about the majority of parties in Ireland at the moment, but feel SF will be worse for both myself and the country.

Also don't think they will be in government after the next election as they will find coalition partners hard to come by (unless FF switch, and sure current SF are just oldschool FF bollix anyways).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607287#Comment_118607287

Fair enough. I don't know a party that isn't populist. I think SF, SD, PBP and recently FF have a good angle on how to turn around the FF/FG crisis by building our own. We cannot continue as is. Maybe the well of tax payer money drying up has FF changing their tune of late.

I see they are looking at doubling the €100 household credit. Populist?

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607302#Comment_118607302

I do agree on the populist bit, but I do find SF more so than others. I also found EOB awful on the debate, and he's meant to be v the best of them.

I think politicians actually making hard decisions and not just throwing taxpayer money at it would be great, as said above no long term thinking from any party (look at pension age). Any party that did that would get my vote, but i suspect would get crucified

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582860#Comment_118582860

Why would a single person think they could out-bid a couple for scarce housing in Dublin?

The answer for that single person is to look outside Dublin (plenty of very good homes for €300k in Kildare) or couple up with someone to buy in Dublin.

Irish people need to learn to go live where they can afford. In the US, no-one can afford to live in Manhattan, so they don't (mostly).

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607917#Comment_118607917

But when your own government is giving tax breaks to the very ones driving you out of the market, I think we can do better than moving to another part of the country.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607334#Comment_118607334

It is only natural that SF would get a lot of criticism, etc,etc because it is riding high in the polls and may be in the next government. If it is the lead party in the next government it , more than likely , would be inheriting a very healthy economic situation - unless there is another ‘banana slip’ , a number of very severe covid variants, etc. The country is scoring very on most international surveys. It’s rating re borrowing money on the international stage has been consistently increasing, etc

so if SF is in the next gov it will borrow, IMO, as much as possible to do all the things that it is promising - a lot of it is capital in nature - eg housing, health,education, significant increase in staff numbers such as medical consultants , costs associated with climate change, etc, etc, etc.

parallel to this it will have ‘A LOOK AT PUTTING HIGHER TAX RATES ON INCOMES OVER €100,000/year , amend laws as per its agenda, etc and then EXPECT that these changes will not impact on the annual exchequer intake or it might argue that there will be a real increase in intake as a result to pay for the increased expenditure

after ,say, five years of such government, things are going well because of all the houses going up, ‘manners’ being put on those high earners, etc, etc it may get back in for another five years, I wonder then what the health of the national coffers would be.

Would the national income be enough to pay for all the money borrowed to fund the party’s programme on top of paying back the money borrowed re response to Covid.

two issues, by way of recent examples, do not bode well going forward and could have a significant negative impact on the above

(1) the Kerry debacle re treating childrens mental health issues is due to a severe shortage of consultants and this applies to all sections re consultants in the HSE. The main reason is due to unattractive salaries but other improvements are also needed and all these cost very significant finance

(2) a recent report on the stock of houses being rented by Dublin City council stated that there is circa €30 million due in outstanding rent and that it is outstanding from amongst the ‘higher earners’ within the cohort. So the actual return from increasing the social housing stock should factor in this ‘behaviour’

mm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607917#Comment_118607917

There should be enough diverse types of quality property available that the single person and the couple are not both competing for the same 3 bed semi.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609230#Comment_118609230

The problems is that the left-wing parties including Sinn Fein who have controlled DCC for most of the last decade have blocked high-rise development. Just look at them losing their sh!t over the O'Devanny Gardens development. Where Sinn Fein haven't been able to block, delay or frustrate the building of homes, they have delayed it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-opposed-building-of-6-000-homes-across-dublin-says-fine-gael-report-1.4602893

"Sinn Féin has voted against 6,000 homes across different developments in Dublin"

Happy to keep the discussion on housing, would love to see a pro-SF poster (including those that claim not to be a SF supporter but never offer anything other than a SF soundbite) to produce any evidence of Sinn Fein on a Dublin council leading the housing agenda.

Varik

Used to live in an old former council estate, the amount of houses that were going for crazy money and then half the price again or the same again going to do them up. Seeing some that are going ( in todays market) for prices you'd expect but then the same happens.

Knocking half of the pretty standard old pebble dashed semi Ds we'd all know and putting up glass mansions.

Same as with apartments, the likes of SF don't seem to realize that for every luxury development they block that those people don't go anywhere. They show up elsewhere outbid everyone, and at worst they've to wait a few years to add the second master bathroom if the initial price got a bit high.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594652#Comment_118594652

Unfortunately the younger generation are brainwashed by SF who have a strong social media presence and play populist politics on every issue.

It's not so much brainwashing as indifference to how politics works and no interest in going beyond the headlines. SF have completely mastered the soundbyte with their constant keenness to make representatives available for comment and a ready supply of damning clichés of government parties.