Amnesty scheme for undocumented migrants in Ireland

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569947#Comment_118569947

All sounds very noble of you. However the important word is "legally"

They were not legally here in the first place, and made a mockery of our immigration rules, you know, those rules that were observed by those following the proper legal channels to obtain a visa to live and work here. Citizenship is not a factor for them mostly, so why would it be so important to the illegals?

Those who took the legal route, paid their fee, obtained their visas, observed the rules must be mad as hell looking at those who just didn't bother now getting a free pass. I for one am not impressed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569974#Comment_118569974

Yep, most overstayed their visas. Not ideal, but not the worst crime in the world. If they are here, working and looking after themselves, then I don't see the harm in allowing them to regulate their status

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569947#Comment_118569947

Shouldn't we want the best potential citizens for either Ireland or the EU?

Don't you consider those who have broken our laws to have already shown that they're not a better option than someone waiting for approval for legal entry?

I swear, it seems like some people are begging for migrants to come here.. as if Ireland or Europe wasn't one of the most desirable locations in the world for immigration.

I'm curious Bubbly... how many people would you like to come live in Ireland? is there a limit? (Bear in mind that people will have children, so looking at the future wouldn't be limited to those who have arrived from abroad)

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570021#Comment_118570021

Do you have the stats to back up most have overstayed their visas?

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567474#Comment_118567474

It smells of Varadkar and Coveney, but is being informed by NGO's.

hawley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569925#Comment_118569925

Most of the people who come here illegally don't have any great level of skill or talent. If having loads of young people who are of working age was a important factor in a country being successful, then African countries would surely be leading the way, rather than having most of the poorest nations on the planet. There has been barely any media coverage of this in the past few days. A lot of people are oblivious to this amnesty.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118568428#Comment_118568428

How is the regularisation of thousands of illegal immigrants in “our” best interests?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118570721#Comment_118570721

Its not... so it shouldn't be happening

Amias

Why are the not just deported if the are staying here illegally?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571393#Comment_118571393

Well I mean lots of people are making a killing in providing accomodation for asylum seekers, in some cases the asylum seekers dont even leave the accomodation when they are given permission to stay,its basically free with everything else supplied so why would you compete with the locals and pay a third of your income for a room in a shared house.

Also the Legal Profession and the NGOs are making a leaving out of the appeals against deportation, the media will join in too giving only half of every story.

Are any illegal overstayers ever actually deported.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571446#Comment_118571446

Very few considering the numbers of illegals. There's been no deportations at all in nearly 2 years according to Helen

https://twitter.com/hmcentee/status/1336677569123508232

Looking at that thread, she mentions "compassionate" and "pragmatic" several times. They obviously decided on the language behind closed doors, and she's repeating what she's been told to repeat.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569947#Comment_118569947

I believe when non-nationals apply for Irish citizenship they are required to make a written statement of commitment, at least for the foreseeable future, to Ireland. It would be naive to believe that everyone who does is truthful.

Are you naive?

McHardcore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563919#Comment_118563919

Not the first time they have made up facts to try and win an argument. Probably not the last either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571446#Comment_118571446

Asylum seekers are not illegal🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571581#Comment_118571581

Quite the opposite of naive actually. Very cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571869#Comment_118571869

Technically, many of them are, until they've been given permission to stay, and their appeal application begins to be processed. Those that arrive without visas, and are refused Asylum would be illegal, especially if they disappear before their deportation occurs.

Spanish Eyes

Genuine asylum seekers will have no problem being granted refugee status and eventually given leave to remain, for example Syrians escaping war. I think the UN has a program or something for such escapees from their war torn countries not only Syria. Unfortunately the coat tails are very long, and non program asylum seekers arrive with dubious tales of being harrassed because of their religion or sexuality or whatever. Who the heck knows the veracity of such claims? But we all know why they choose Ireland, their chances of being deported are zero, and that is pure debasement of our borders/immigration law.

As for the so called "undocumented", I guess the vast majority are Brazilian students who have overstayed, there are thousands of them here now. But back to the coat tails again. Surely anyone who is undocumented should have applied for a visa of some sort in order to arrive here, and now that they have overstayed are being invited to regularise their position. I wonder if the amnesty is confined to such people?

It stinks. No one will apply for a work visa anymore, just get a cock a mamie student visa and qualify for the next amnesty because this is only the first of a rolling series I think.

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118567474#Comment_118567474

The Greens would have the major input into making this a reality as 'kingmakers' in this iteration of govt. This was an absolute must have along with further embedding/conflating gender identity with sex in law and the incoming 'hate speech' laws for the Greens and the crazy instant own door housing for people landing in our country within 4 months.

Punitive extra taxation is not the only country wrecking policies these yokes have to their bow.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571952#Comment_118571952

I wonder if the amnesty is confined to such people?

Nope, the amnesty also extends to those in DP, under appeals or waiting to be deported... so even though claimants might been refused Asylum, this Amnesty provides grounds for them to stay in Ireland... and since the Amnesty decision itself can be appealed, their stay can be extended even further.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571980#Comment_118571980

Free for all, come on over.

Would someone in media/politics ever raise this for public consumption and debate? Democracy my backside, I don't remember this being in any Program for Government, but it could have been hidden in the small print under a different guise.

I really don't think people realise the extent of this largesse to all and sundry, and by the looks of it that is exactly what the Government wants now. I might be overreacting but it sounds very sinister, like others somewhere are pulling our strings and need to keep the public in the dark and feed them full of sh!t like mushrooms.

McHardcore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118571893#Comment_118571893

Asylum seekers are not illegal. Bubblypop is right. Asylum seekers cannot be illegal as it is a recognised human right to seek asylum. Asylum seekers have a right to be in Ireland while their case is being decided. You are either confused or are attempting to paint asylum seekers as criminals.

rocjohn

There is no enabling legislation,Primary or Secondary for this scheme.The scheme itself is therefore illegal .

There was a decision against an undocumented worker on 16 Dec 2021 in the Supreme Court. Below is an extract from the Journal on that date.

''.....In a unanimous decision , delivered by Justice Baker, the court determined that an employment contract is unlawful when a person does not have a work permit or permission to be in the State.

The judge determined that the statutory framework operated to render Sobhy’s contract illegal because the 2003 Employment Permits Act prohibits a person from working in the State without a work permit as well as the employment of such person by an employer.

In addition, the plaintiff’s presence in the State under the 2004 Immigration Act was illegal for all purposes, the judge said.

The 2003 Act does create criminal sanctions arising from such contract, the judge said.

While certain exemptions relieve against the possible harshness of the consequences of illegality, there were no legislative exemption exists to permit the payment of social welfare benefit to a person employed without a work permit, the judge said.

The judge said that the nature of the relationship between Sobhy and the State was not contractual in nature. For that reason, the enforceability of an illegal contract could not be said to effect Sobhy’s statutory entitlements......''

There is no provision in law to render the Supreme Courts decision null and void save and except if legislation for an amnesty was brought before the Dail and voted on.Then this would be in the open and TDs would have to nail their colours to the mast.

This scheme allows for full Social welfare payments to successful applicants from day one. It is a clear breach of the law and the courts verdict.The cost will run into billions. As this has not been provided for in the Finance Bill and the scheme has no legal authority this money will be paid out of funds voted for something else e.g Health Services.

Therefore Helen Mcntee has usurped the power of the Judicial Branch of government.

Everyone needs to start calling their TD and if anyone has the means (Financial means),unfortunately I dont, a Judicial review would I believe put a stop to this madness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572201#Comment_118572201

Asylum was originally intended for people fleeing for their lives.

It was never intended for people catching flights to the destination of choice and tearing up passports on the way.

The system is being abused by economic migrants who are landing here because they know if they stay long enough they wont be deported. They now know that if they stay under the radar for four years they may get an amnesty.They also know the Government is proposing to give them their own door accomodation and this accomodation will be in social housing in very nice parts of Dublin.

And anyone defending this madness is not on a public housing list or waiting for four years to see a consultant on a public waiting list,their child isnt waiting for mental health supports or support for extra educational needs in school or even something so basic as a wheelchair that fits or orthondontic treatment.

Its this cohort of people who will suffer from too much immigration of low skilled people who wouldnt qualify under any scheme to come here but those who will benefit from cheap unskilled labour will benefit most of all.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569879#Comment_118569879

More bullshyte as usual.

An asset to the country is not someone that couldn't get a valid visa in the first place and most especially not someone that was on a deportation order.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118569445#Comment_118569445

Just like a lot of other places eventually the plebs paying for stuff or the ones being totally left behind in this glorious multicultural globalised world start getting peed off and then the shyte hits the fan.

I can't figure how how most mainstream politicians, the media, NGOs and modern liberal types haven't copped on that a lot of people are getting more and more pis**d off with the status quo.

We have had Trump, Brexit, populous regimes popping up all over the place.

In France Macron has started getting tougher because he can see the writing on the wall with the support for Le Pen.

Denmark copped on, but little old Ireland is run by gimps looking for likes from the media and NGOs.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572326#Comment_118572326

You are right people are getting more pissed off at the status quo and the distain our politicians have for the actual working class in this country.

But they have absolutely nowhere to go (think we'll see a swing through ignorance to SF, who are basically the same)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572201#Comment_118572201

Should anyone enter a country without a visa, or permission to be there, they are illegal immigrants... until they gain permission to remain in that country, either through some form of visa, an Asylum application, or some form of appeal process over remaining.

The period before making a claim means that they are technically here illegally if they haven't gained permission already to be here. The application/claim to be an Asylum seeker changes that status.

You really should read what is stated before objecting, and not object over something that wasn't said. Which is what you've just done.

It's shocking to me that illegal immigrants with criminal convictions are included in this scheme.

Look at the official crime statistics in places like Sweden and Germany, do we want to end up like that?

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572434#Comment_118572434

You said in your original post, in response to a comment that asylum seekers are not illegal, that technically some of them are. You’ve just conceded yourself that that’s not true. They may be illegal before they apply for asylum, but once they do, they get a temporary permission, hence not illegal. McHardcore was right to correct you.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118572355#Comment_118572355

The shinners are even worse than FG on this topic.

And their economic policies are fantasies.

There is huge opening for a socially conservative economic right wing party in this country.

And no I don't mean a catholic socially conservative party against abortion, divorce, same sex marriage, homosexual rights, but a party that doesn't buy into a lot of the trans shyte (e.g girl today boy tomorrow bullcr** that is appearing on our shores), one that is against letting people wander into Ireland and then be given free healthcare, accommodation, free legal aid to fight the Irish state in effect, one that finally starts to tackle the traveller issue, a tough stance on anti social behaviour and crime.

Because of a growing population we have had to build more hospitals, more schools, etc but haven't built a new prison in how long ?

And by economic right wing I mean an end to the career welfare option, forever homes cr**, and a fair deal for those that pay their way.

Of course most of the above is now denounced as being fascism and I would be labelled a brownshirt or some such.

kravmaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558854#Comment_118558854

Its far more than 17,000, multiply it by 5 at least.