Amnesty scheme for undocumented migrants in Ireland

hello how are you

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0131/1276809-undocumented-migrants/

Are we really that desperate for people to prop up the pension pyramid scheme?

Mrs OBumble

Yes. Someone has to fill the jobs the local won't or can't do.

This wont be a one off scheme. No matter what they say.

Criminal records and deportation orders against your name, not an issue, here's your Irish citizenship.

They previously claimed that lots of these illegals don't realize they are illegal. Not sure how they are going to apply for the scheme if they don't realize they are illegal.

I've been waiting to see if the government would announce a parallel scheme to prosecute the thousands of business who have been employing these people illegally and not paying tax. It doesn't seem to have been announced yet. I'm sure it will be soon, I wait in anticipation.

From the RTE article:

She also said that a deportation order does not necessarily prevent a person from applying or being successful but that each individual and application will be vetted.

If there is a serious criminal conviction or otherwise outstanding, she said, then that is something that the Minister for Justice will have to take into account.

........'take into account'

Mike Murdock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558321#Comment_118558321

Which pay minimum wage or such a low wage that means we're subsidising them through various social welfare supports.

Lovely little country...

Pay for our pensions? You're having a laugh.

the butcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558321#Comment_118558321

You mean the 450 million EU population isn't big enough to cater for a small island like ourselves?!

Yurt2

The 17,000 illegals in the country figure quoted has to be BS. I'd love to know how they landed on that number because instinctually I think we all know the figure has to be far in excess of that.

"Have to take into account serious criminal convictions..."

Almost sounds like they are apogizing for this. Why doesn't the government figure out why illegal immigrants with serious criminal convictions remain in Ireland. Why doesn't she deport them?

Also, has there been a definition of what is considered a minor criminal conviction? If there is a human victim at the other end of that conviction should they just shut their mouth while the convicted criminal is given Irish citizenship?

Why are no media outlets or journalists asking these questions?

Recent PEW research in the UK puts their illegal population at 800,000 to 1.2 million. The Irish equivalent would be roughly 80-100,000. Minister is claiming 17,000.

Spanish Eyes

I see there is an application fee. Guessing that will be waived in many cases eventually.

And what illegal with serious convictions will raise their heads above the parapet to participate? Honestly.

So, the floodgates are open. A once in a generation (approx 30 years or so) opportunity. Don't make me laugh, it will be renewed every few years from now on.

But they are to be patted on the head with compassion and compared with so called "undocumented" Irish in the US. Ok so. I can see a huge number of Brazilian student overstayers on this list. Obrigado.

Those who applied legitimately for work visas etc. must be spitting feathers. They went through the proper channels and see illegals getting a free pass. They must be raging.

I've one last question that someone may be able to help with.

Has there been any elected politician, either TD or councilor connected with any political party in Ireland who has objected to this? I'd like to contact them if so.

Not independents because I know a few off them will object.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558925#Comment_118558925

It's an absolute kick in the teeth, not just for Irish people but also for law abiding legal immigrants who obey all the rules and joined the queue and do their best day in day out. I've spoken to a few who are very angry about this.

BruteStock

Will the immigrants take part in the good behaviour course Simon Harris wants implemened for Irish men at third level? Policies like Helens fail to protect people. Yet she wants to consider people who have serious criminal convictions. The double standards and hypocrisy is an embarrassment

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559025#Comment_118559025

If they implement a "don't be a rapist" course for men, then they need to implement a "don't be a gold digger" course for women. Fair's fair.

MayoSalmon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558321#Comment_118558321

Remove the welfare state and plenty of locals will do them jobs...trust me.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559138#Comment_118559138

Indeed sure why not reintroduce workhouses.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558854#Comment_118558854

I think that's only the figure they settled with for the first batch ,this will be given extension after extension ,

We can obviously abolish the asylum system now that anyone with a deportation order (11,000) and asylum seekers seeking international protection will get it too ,we know we have in excess of 9000 + asylum seekers in direct provisions alone ,

Ten of Swords

Mod - Inflammatory, agenda driven thread title updated to reflect what the article actually says

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558854#Comment_118558854

They've been dishing out so many citizenships over the years that I'm surprised it isn't lower than 17000...

Undocumented = illegal

"The application fee for a single person is €550, while the fee for a family application is €700."

They're bitching that the undocumented have to pay an application fee.

My citizenship application for another E.U. country cost that and I also needed to pay for translation fees of Certificates from English and Language tests and citizenship tests. They want an Irish passport and they want it for free.

Just working this through in my head: if they can't afford citizenship then once given the passport for free then Social Welfare can't refuse the whole gamut of social welfare supports.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559881#Comment_118559881

can you quote the part of the article that used the phrase?

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559989#Comment_118559989

"convictions for minor offences"

It's right there in the article.

The fact illegals with "convictions for minor offences" *in Ireland* will be given citizenship is worth discussing. Why would people want to censor this?

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560016#Comment_118560016

hahahaha

Selective quoting at its best.

Applicants must be considered of good character and not pose a threat to the State, but having convictions for minor offences will not, by itself, result in disqualification.

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560035#Comment_118560035

What are you talking about

It's literally word for word from the article.

Illegals with "convictions for minor offences" will get citizenship. You quoted it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230606/amnesty-scheme-for-undocumented-migrants-in-ireland

Applicants are allowed to include a spouse or partner, and children aged between 18 and 23 in their applications. Successful applicants will be allowed to access the labour market and can begin a path to Irish citizenship.

How are 18-23 years olds counted as children?

Ms McEntee said there will also be an appeals process and people can be confident that if they are not successful that their application will be assessed independently under appeal.

Lessons never seem to be learned. One of the biggest problems with the Asylum/DP system were the endless appeals, which ended up being paid by the State (or the NGOs, which are funded by the State).. and yet, now, we're to have an extra dimension where appeals will be allowed for this "Amnesty". More money for the legal profession provided by the taxpayer..

If there is a serious criminal conviction or otherwise outstanding, she said, then that is something that the Minister for Justice will have to take that into account.

Not an automatic disqualification. Taken into account... and the Minister gets to decide.. not a body/panel of experts in such things. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the Minister, but she's a politician... what makes her an authority in deciding that those with serious criminal convictions, should be accepted?

There is so much that is wrong in that article, and nobody (politicians/public servants) seem to be interested in asking the obvious questions.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560046#Comment_118560046

I never said it wasn't word for word. I said it it was "selective quoting at its best".

I do not think the way you implied "convictions for minor offences"

has the same meaning as.

Applicants must be considered of good character and not pose a threat to the State, but having convictions for minor offences will not, by itself, result in disqualification.

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560071#Comment_118560071

It has the same meaning.

If you have "convictions for minor offences" your application won't be disqualified. The article literally states it will not disqualify you. Please read the sentence you are quoting.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560046#Comment_118560046

Where does it say they will get citizenship? I'll save you the trouble - it doesn't. Successful applicants get immigration permission and can then pursue citizenship through naturalization.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560095#Comment_118560095

The amnesty seeks to provide legal status to the illegals. It doesn't offer citizenship. You're confusing two different issues.

hawley

So you can have someone who has gone through the whole asylum process and been given notice of deportation; now they can apply for this amnesty. Then if they're turned down for this, they can appeal as well. This country is an absolute joke.

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560104#Comment_118560104

OK, they are given a "path to citizenship".

"Successful applicants will be allowed to access the labour market and can begin a path to Irish citizenship."

We both know my interpretation is valid. Illegals with minor criminal convictions will get citizenship. It's a fact.

hello how are you

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560128#Comment_118560128

But it does give them citizenship. They just have to wait a little while.

Previous: Illegal, no rights.

New plan: They are made legal and can get an Irish passport after a few years.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560054#Comment_118560054

How are 18-23 years olds counted as children?

What would you call them?

Is there a cut off point when you seize been a child of your parents?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560156#Comment_118560156

No... it doesn't give them citizenship. It provides them with the legal visa to work and live in Ireland. That's it. (Which is bad enough IMHO).

The problem relating to citizenship is that their period of living here illegally will be accepted as the required time needed for citizenship applications. So, they'll be able to apply the same as anyone else who has jumped through the legal hoops.

It's a joke because this amnesty seeks to reward those who have broken our laws... (but it doesn't reward them with citizenship, although it is wiping the slate clean.)

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560016#Comment_118560016

you had paraphrased from the articles and quoted selectively. the title you used was not in the article.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560054#Comment_118560054

persons under the age of 23 in fulltime education can be counted as dependants of their parents.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560178#Comment_118560178

This is not about how parents view their children.

This is the legal status of people. Children are those under 18. We differentiate between adults and children, no? Otherwise, by your logic, a child could be 50 years old, if their parents were still alive.... and everyone else would be required to treat them as a child.

How do you explain the difference in punishment for crimes between adults and children? What age does that difference end?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560239#Comment_118560239

Dependents are not the same as children. You can have dependents of any age.

“adult” means any person of or over the age of 18 years;

“area”, in relation to a health board, means functional area;

“child” means a person under the age of 18 years;

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/24/section/3/enacted/en/html#:~:text=%E2%80%9Cadult%E2%80%9D%20means%20any%20person%20of,%E2%80%9Cchildren%20detention%20school%E2%80%9D%20means%E2%80%94

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560277#Comment_118560277

it is not something unique to this process. there are other situations where, for instance, certain social welfare payments will be paid in respect of children up to the age of 22 if they are in full time education.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560178#Comment_118560178

yes its 18 in the west and a lot younger in some of the source countries

what would you call a 23 year old ? sweet jebus !!!

not mention the multiple cases of adult males claiming to be children ,

25 year old pretends to be 14 ,

a laughable pantomime is carried out and he is placed in unsecure a accommodation only to go missing the following day and vanish do do you think that doesn't happen ?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560264#Comment_118560264

Wooh calm down.

I'll try explain what is confusing you in the article with an every day example.

I have a son and a daughter, 18 and 19. I get chatting to a stranger who asks me have I any children, I say yes I have daughter that is 18 and a son that is 19.

I don't say no,no, no children, not in a legal sense because that would be creepy and weird.

Now I could say I have "adult children" - but I think most people who are not dangerously stupid wouldn't take offence that I didn't, especially considering I included their ages.

The article

Applicants are allowed to include a spouse or partner, and children aged between 18 and 23 in their applications. Successful applicants will be allowed to access the labour market and can begin a path to Irish citizenship

Maybe if people stopped selectively quoting bits and pieces there would be less outrage.

Who knows.

Markus Antonius

Fair play to Helen McEntee, she's knows that migrants will vote for whatever government normalized their status. Getting in there before Sinn Fein, who will have to up their game when they are in government in 2-3 years.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560104#Comment_118560104

The minister herself said it on radio this morning

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560156#Comment_118560156

They won't be given a passport. They will be able to buy one, just like lots of legal immigrants do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560387#Comment_118560387

well... let's consider the difference in our interpretations.

A) You've decided that it refers to how parents view their own children, but extended beyond that, to cover the description in the article.

B) I'm looking at the legal definition of what is considered an Adult and a Child.

Typically, when you see such an article, which definition would most likely to be used? The legal definition which is specific, or the vague reference with any number of interpretations. Unless, of course, the intent is to tug heart strings and encourage sympathy, in which case, the vague reference would be more suitable.

Maybe if people stopped selectively quoting bits and pieces there would be less outrage.

And drop the "Calm down" and outrage comments. All it does is show your desire to dismiss other peoples concerns on topics.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560555#Comment_118560555

the legal definition they seem to be using, and the article isn't very clear on this, is the same definition used by parts of social welfare.

Gatling

Going by the article anyone between 18-24 can now claim to be an unaccompanied minor ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560577#Comment_118560577

Could you link/quote those areas in social welfare using the term in the same manner? [The Child Act that I linked above shows clearly the legal definition, which is obviously different from what you've claimed.]

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560620#Comment_118560620

one example

Children aged 18 and over

If your child is 18 years of age or over, you can continue to get an Increase for a Qualified Child (IQC) for three months after he or she leaves second level education or finishes the Leaving Certificate (provided that they are not getting a social welfare payment in their own right). Note that an IQC can continue to be paid if your child starts work immediately after finishing school.

If you are getting a long-term social welfare payment and your child is in full-time education, an IQC will be paid up to 22 years of age or up to the end of the academic year in which he or she reaches 22.

link won't post properly so you will have to cut and paste

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/claiming_a_social_welfare_payment/claiming_and_increase_in_your_payment_for_a_child_dependant.html

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560555#Comment_118560555

Jaysus, I have decided nothing. It's not my opinion.

To be honest I don't see how I could have explained it more clearly or at this stage what could possibly be confusing you.

Applicants and their children up until 23 can apply.

Much like health insurance or car insurance or a myriad of other things I suppose that use the exact same perfectly acceptable terminology.

if your plan covers children, you can now add or keep your children on your health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. Children can join or remain on a parent's plan even if they are: Married. Not living with their parents.