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How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

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    #2822
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There's only one demographic rising in these graphs. Time to prepare.

    FT1PlZgWYAIIBQC.jpg




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    #2823
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,112 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125500#Comment_119125500

    Those stats should embarrass you but I guess it’s smart to get it up first with your spin. We can all see your difficulty



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    #2824
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125541#Comment_119125541

    Embarrass me?

    With those wanting constitutional change on the rise and those who can be persuaded on the rise also, I should be embarrassed? Weird.



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    #2825
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    More like a wake for Unionism today.



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    #2826
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Downcow, would you accept that Arlene Foster is a planter?

    If you are part of a plantation, and your descendent centuries later would leave if said land voted to change its status, has that descendent actually changed or integrated in any way compared to the first generation who were born in this new land?

    It would seem to me that anyone like that is absolutely a planter, a sort of long-term expat with special privileges that last for centuries, but if those privileges disappear, so do they.



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    #2827
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Arlene Fosters maiden name is Kelly. I doubt all of her blood originates from Britain even tho she may want you to believe it does.

    With the death of religion and more people from Catholics and Prodesents backgrounds marrying this planter phrase will die out. People from all around the world who bring up there kids here in Ireland as irish and are accepted as being irish despite even being one generation here.


    Others get offended when you call them irish and are quick to piont out theyre not because their ancesters came here 400 years ago but also get offended when there is a term for this as it implies they're not as connected with Ireland as much as people who say they're irish. It is hypocrisy and sectarian.



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    #2828
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,868 ✭✭✭Christy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125393#Comment_119125393

    It isn't. The first is a pretty common way to depict the EDL types, it isn't speaking about all of unionism. Just those that seem wildly offended by the planter term, so you yourself would be excluded. The old views stereotype is pretty common for brexiters as well. So you can see what inspired both cartoons. Neither applies to the whole of unionism as you are trying to interpret them as. To begin with I doubt many Alliance voters feel like they are involved in those cartoons many of whom are unionist.


    AS for the base stuff of the protocol. It is unfortunate but the partition is the only way forward. The UK, of which NI is a part of, wants a hard brexit and wants control of its borders. The NI/Republic border can't be controlled, there is little buy in from the community just on the border and there are far too many entrances and exits as well as private land crossing the border. Honestly this should have been sorted before the referendum but everyone was talking about staying in the Single Market at that point. Then it should have been the first topic mentioned whenever anyone suggested a Hard Brexit but that was forgotten about as well. Again these were all things Nationalists pointed out at the time and the DUP fought for Brexit without any serious plan for afterwards.

    If the UK wants a border with the EU, and it seems like the political will is there to make one, then the only options are to cut Ireland out of the single market, the protocol or something very similar or a hard border within Ireland.

    For the first, the Republic has no obligation to enforce Brexit any more than it would have to help another country enforce a referendum result.

    The second is manageable but annoying.

    The third is simply not physically feasible.



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    #2829
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭votecounts


    To our resident Unionist who says that the Nationalist Community are sectarian, can't wait to hear you defend these scum.

    https://twitter.com/Mully1892/status/1532469239587692544

    Hope these scum and their ilk rot in hell, nothing "Jubilant" about their behaviour.



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    #2830
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152352#Comment_119152352

    sick arseholes.



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    #2831
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152352#Comment_119152352

    And folks want us in the South to bend over backwards for this scum. Absolutely shocking.



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    #2832
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,026 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153429#Comment_119153429

    That's why the best option is to let them die out naturally or just leave of their own acord.

    They have no interest in a UI or being part of a UI, so don't make any changes to flags or anthems or political structures to placate them and just let them make up their own minds.



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    #2833
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153820#Comment_119153820

    They have no interest in being a part of any state, statlet etc unless they are the supreme power. Belligerent Unionism at song.



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    #2834
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153820#Comment_119153820

    But but but we've to make them feel comfortable. That's what I keep hearing anyway from Partitionists and belligerent Unionists.



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    #2835
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    It's actually hilarious how the lads look just like the caricatures a few posts back (albeit not crying over the planter comment)



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    #2836
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Making an apology through Bryson. You cannot apologise if people know the words and laugh. You just have to own it and say "This is who I am."

    Diabolical video. Thankfully they've been thoroughly outed.



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    #2837
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    https://m.independent.ie/news/platinum-jubilee-mishap-as-irish-tricolour-flag-shown-to-represent-parts-of-the-united-kingdom-41722694.html


    Different symbols and flags were shown to represent the four corners of the United Kingdom...

    The video showed the flag of England, then the three lions of the England football squad. Next it showed a red dragon emblem representing Wales. Then it showed a woman waving an Irish tricolour, before cutting to a man bearing a Scottish flag.


    That's going to go down well...



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    #2838
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭votecounts


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162394#Comment_119162394

    Makes me laugh that the Queen that they are so "loyal" to doesn't even know their flag. ImagIne the reaction had America done this. LOL



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    #2839
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,257 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152352#Comment_119152352

    I'm in a crowded room in London. Playing that aloud would be an exercise in poor judgement. Could someone summarise this for me? The thumbnail looks foreboding.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2840
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165421#Comment_119165421

    Very happy loyalists drinking in an orange hall whilst singing the following together while others at the table laughed and clapped...

    She went to her room to get a wee treat

    A bunch of strangers she did meet

    They hammered & they hammered & they bate her about

    John McArevey never gave her a shout. 

    Round & round & up & down

    Through the streets of ballygawley town




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    #2841
    Irelandsnumberone
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭Irelandsnumberone


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165691#Comment_119165691

    Wrong thread

    Post edited by Irelandsnumberone on


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    #2842
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,257 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165691#Comment_119165691

    So not playing that in a majority female workplace was a sound move.

    Ta.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2843
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭trashcan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162394#Comment_119162394

    Oh dear ! Between that, and Tesco not stocking enough Royal memorabilia. It’s a damn conspiracy I tell ya !



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    #2844
    PeaSea
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭PeaSea



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119153820#Comment_119153820

    I would tend to agree with this. However the danger from your position (your plural, not singling out Fr Tod) is to surmise that all Unionists are like this. They are not. Some are, yes, but please do not make the mistake of expecting everyone to be a Jamie Bryson or like some of those singing.



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    #2845
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,257 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168296#Comment_119168296

    Yep. Plenty of us are disgusted with the DUP and would even consider being in a UI just for stability if nothing else.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2846
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,026 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168296#Comment_119168296

    I agree, all unionists are not like that.

    But at the end of the day being a unionists means being in the union.

    If you're no longer in the union no amount of different flags, or anthems or other symbolism will make up for it.

    So in a united Ireland there should be no bending over backwards to try and placate unionists, because at the end of the day it's not going to help.

    The only placating unionists will accept is not having a united Ireland in the first place.

    Let the unionists decided for themselves, some will move, others will stay, some will integrate in their own good time, others will not.

    By the way I'm not suggesting that unionists get treated differently in a united Ireland as a ploy to drive them out.

    I think they should be treated exactly the same as anyone else, whether they accept that or not is up to themselves.

    Post edited by Fr Tod Umptious on


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    #2847
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,225 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168340#Comment_119168340

    The binary way of looking at it is too limited. People seem to think a united Ireland or status quo. There are interim positions such as rejoining the Commonwealth, a federated State etc. that are worth exploring.



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    #2848
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,257 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168340#Comment_119168340

    You're assuming that all Unionists place utmost importance on staying in the Union. This isn't true. Suggesting that they should leave their homes is as ignorant now as it was when Margaret Thatcher said the same of Nationalists.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2849
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168925#Comment_119168925


    Is there any practical or tangible benefit to Ireland deciding to join the Commonwealth? Is the head of the Commonwealth not QE? Would we doff the cap to the royals once more?

    Is a federated state not Northern Ireland by another name? Or would we federate all Provinces... Ulster should probaby get 2 federates though in that case...



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    #2850
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,257 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169206#Comment_119169206

    This trope crops up from time to time. The Commonwealth is a white elephant. Joining it serves absolutely no purpose.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2851
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,225 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169206#Comment_119169206

    There is practical benefit to a federated State. Anybody who looks seriously at a united Ireland and not through drunken green-tinted spectacles will conclude that there are huge practical and financial difficulties in creating a united Ireland. A federated State allows for that to take place over time, but also gives some comfort to unionists and others who hold an attachment to Northern Ireland. When something has been in existence for over 100 years, you shouldn't underestimate the attachment that people have to it.



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