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How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

  • 27-01-2022 7:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭ Dickie10


    How could we make the Republic more appealing place to belong to for the Unionist and Loyalist community, surely the like s of the DUP would already have common ground here with some sectors of irish society ironaically the Catholic Church, on abortion and Gay Marriage, those very conservative Catholics closest ally would be hardline Presbytarian and Protestants. Fine Gael and Unionist Parties may have some common ground too like of John Bruton and the politican from Monaghon whose father was in the Orange Order, surely some of these things that are already in the Republic would make them feel less threatened. The absolute hatred among some sections of Irish media and society towards the Catholic church would surely be in common would some extreme Loyalists too. Are they afraid of just how easily they could be integrated into rest of Ireland? Theres also large sections of the electorate who despise Shinners, so the Loyalists would surely be delighted with that too.

    Could there be any chance of southern catholics actually enjoying a more unioinst outlook or becoming more unionist light? people we may refer to as West Brit on east coast, those who follow english soccer teams or are into British Lions and likes of cricket. Could they find themselves actually alligned more with a form of unionism? we definitley have more culturally in common with mainland Britain than Europeans.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭ AyeGer


    The Protestants of the border counties may know more about the way forward than the rest of us. And if they believe it will ever really be possible. Many of them have relations from the unionist community in Northern Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    Sort of true for some people, I doubt most of them would move although some definitely would, in a United Ireland no one would be able to call themselves British anymore whereas with partition people in the North will always be able to call themselves Irish.

    There would be no possibility of the status of Northern Ireland ever changing again in a United Ireland whereas with partition the question will always remain, so the division would end and after a few years everyone would simply refer to themselves as Irish just like they do now in the 26 counties



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭ Dickie10


    so the same thing that happened the unionist community in southern ireland would eventually happen in northern ireland? emigration to Mainland Britain or just join FG, as what happened southern unionists in Free State and Republic?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    There is no way after a United Ireland anyone in Ireland will still be able to realistically call themselves British, could anyone really imagine 50 years after a United Ireland anyone in Ireland calling themselves British for absolutely no reason at all, you might have a few bitter people still call themselves British a few years later but it won’t last.

    People in Northern Ireland will always be able to call themselves Irish as they are born in Ireland and also the constitutional status always has a realistic possibility of changing, it would be completely illogical and simply bizarre for anyone to be referring to themselves as British decades after a United Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ Mongfinder General


    Unionists/Loyalists fear three things: Dispossession, Retribution and Erosion of their culture.

    There are plenty in the south who have no issue with fleecing anybody earning more than the average wage - PBP, Soc Dems, Labour, SF. Come to think of FF and FG aren’t much different. So Unionists can look forward to scandalous taxation (thin end of the wedge on dispossession).

    Retribution. We all know who’ll be dishing that out. And if they’re in government, it will get swept under the carpet.

    Culture. It’s not respected outside their community and seen as anachronistic. It would be hugely controversial in a United Ireland because unionists would be a minority but with minority rights. Strange bed fellows and all that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    There will be dissatisfaction at first but as I said that will die out, you’re right unionism has no chance of dying out currently while Northern Ireland exists but under a United Ireland it will die out as it did in the 26 counties as unlike the nationalists in the 6 counties now, the former unionists in a United Ireland will have no possibility of ever changing the constitutional status of Northern Ireland again, could you seriously imagine people 50 years after a United Ireland referring to themselves as British for no reason at all? People in Northern Ireland will always refer to themselves as Irish as this is Ireland.

    I don’t see how you could call it a British problem when it’s not, it’s an Irish problem, this is Ireland and it effects us far more than it effects England.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,596 ✭✭✭✭ y0ssar1an22


    recognise them as a distinct ethnic group within the State if reunification ever happens (if it does ever happen, i dont think it will be for a great many years).



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    I’m sure that will appeal to the unionist population, to be classified as an ethic group in the land they have owned for centuries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    I think many of them will keep rowing with their neighbours whatever happens, they’d probably be better off in a UI, but there’s such belligerence within unionism that they might not notice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Derekon2021


    Re-join the UK?

    D



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭ AllForIt


    We can't do with Protestant Unionists but we can do it with Islam and other foreign religions, apparently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    That’s not true at all, there’s no comparison, how are people possibly going to be still calling themselves British after a United Ireland? Of course the nationalists are going to still call themselves Irish they are born in Ireland, just like anyone in the 26 counties prior to 1922/37 called themselves Irish even though it was part of Britain/UK.

    You don’t see anyone in any former British colonies still referring to themselves as British, how could they? No one in Cork which had a large population of people who referred to themselves as British are calling themselves British today, it would be bizarre.

    What makes you think it would be any different in Northern Ireland? The constitutional status of the 6 counties will no longer be up for debate in a United Ireland, I don’t see you how you believe people will still be calling themselves British 50 years after a United Ireland it doesn’t make any sense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Only a fantasist, or the deluded would think that forcing unification on the unionist population would stop them from identifying as British.

    What makes me think it would any different? Cork hasn’t been part of the UK for the last 100 years and has always been predominantly both catholic and inhabited by indigenous Irish people. Almost half the population of NI is Unionist, joining the Republic will not change that, not in 10 yrs, not in 50. It is an integral part of their identity, their way of life, they identify more with the UK than with Southerners and we should respect that.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 87,175 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    You'd have to please the DUP, UUP, TUV, PUP and they don't even agree amongst themselves. And please the Orange Order and various Loyalist groups and several religions. Impossible task as they will all want special status.

    The nearest doable thing would be to recognise them as an ethnic minority to guarantee human rights.

    The number of 'new Irish' integrated into Irish society is greater than the number of Unionists. But Unionism could still be the kingmakers in the Dáil if they play their cards right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    The irony of that last bit will surely not be lost on SF. The unionists have been kingmakers in the UK parliament on occasion, I suspect the general population in the UK is about as invested in the plight of NI as many Southerners are. I would hazard a guess that the UK government would gladly wrap NI up in a bow and hand it back. Were it not for the Unionist voters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    We don’t have to appease any of them, we can do some appeasing if we want to assure we get over 50% in the event of a referendum but we wouldn’t have to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    This whole thing people are claiming about the Republic of Ireland not caring about Northern Ireland is a fairly new thing only emerging in the last 20 years, literally every poll taken during the troubles showed at least 80 percent of people in the Republic of Ireland wanting immediate unilateral British withdrawal from Northern Ireland, and imagine the problems that would have caused back then compared to now.

    I’m sure most people in Cork or Galway or wherever would care as much about the people in Derry as they do the people in Offaly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    And that is the attitude that would guarantee hostility from their community for generations to come. Again I say, why would southerners want nearly a million disaffected unionists in this country for the sake of another million nationalists many don’t care about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    Why do you think people don’t care about them? What makes the people of Derry different to the people of Offaly? What is this hatred you seem to have for your fellow Irish men, women and children?

    We have had former presidents from Northern Ireland elected solely by the people of the Republic of Ireland, some of the most well respected politicians in the Republic of Ireland came from the 6 counties,Bobby sands had one of the biggest funeral turnouts in the history of Ireland and the world, your claim that people in the 26 counties don’t care about the people in the 6 counties doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,987 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    Troubles are over, there is now a generation who know very little about it, another generation older than that who lived trough the light version of the troubles and are unsympathetic towards terrorists. I’m in my early 50s and lived in Cork/midlands most of my life apart from a decade in London/US, I literally know no one who has ever expressed strong feelings one way or the other when the topic of NI comes up. People are more interested in family, jobs, housing, healthcare etc than they are about whether NI should be part of the Republic. It’s easy and safe to travel the length and breathe of Ireland, their are few barriers to trade apart from the **** show that Brexit has thrown up and I don’t give a damn whether a man/woman is a diehard unionist or a staunch republican, as long as they don’t cause trouble.



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