Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808836#Comment_118808836

Will you take Swimming World magazine (probably not)

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808853#Comment_118808853

Yet, no-one has been able to provide a shred of proof that this alleged advantage transgender women have in sports exists in the real world.

The whole argument is framed in terms of transgender women being exactly the same as cis men, and cis men are better at sports then women QED.

But that framing does not hold up to scrutiny either. It is demonstrably true that there are sports where women have a genetic advantage over men. So #notallsports.

The same few sports are mentioned time and time again - as if swimming and weightlifting are all there is - or are they the only sports people can find a transgender woman participating in at a high level?.

A nod at soccer or tennis, a brief mention of rugby as those are the popular sports and wimmenz play those.

Would a transgender woman have an advantage in gymnastics floor exercise?

How about shooting?

Archery?

Sailing?

Surfing?

Cricket?!?!

Darts??

I keep providing links to support what I am saying - that is how honestly I am arguing.

In return there are ... opinions.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808941#Comment_118808941

But yet she lost the 200 free at the NCAA Championships?

That doesn’t answer my question. That article said she’s the #1 in the 200 free. You have been claiming she’s the best in the NCAA period, while others have been posting tweets saying she’ll be the best ever, without having any idea about women’s swimming.

What proof do you have of any of that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808941#Comment_118808941

No, they won't accept that. In a couple of years when the rankings points build up then they'll change their argument to something else. FFS remember that we're literally wasting our time with a discussion about whether men are stronger than women.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808963#Comment_118808963

Factually, yes, denser bone mass and bigger muscles and lung capacity helps in all of those sports. Archery, darts and surfing need stability as well, which is helped by the shape of the male pelvic bone vs. women, sailing and cricket are hugely dependent on strength (ability to swing a bat fast or get the sail in position quickly to move onto the next adjustment).

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808928#Comment_118808928

I am not in the habit of examining the genital area of athletes of any gender - I'll leave that to you.

And where did I compare Thomas to YOU? Are you an elite swimmer? Have you ever competed in any sport at the highest level?

Are you claiming all cis women share the exact same emotional, physiological, and biological characteristics?

Are we all just identikit clones in your world view?

I'm off to win Wimbledon in that case.

I would say that based on your posts I don't share much with you apart from age and the luck of being born in a biologically correct body.

I seriously doubt you share many characteristics with a young, elite athlete from an Ivy League College in the U.S. of any gender.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808989#Comment_118808989

Hmmm...

Jury is still out on the alleged man are better at ALL sports trope.

What has been true is men have benefitted from better funding, better training, better facilities. Let's level that playing field before any definite conclusions can be drawn about ALL sports.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/women-endurance-sports/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808963#Comment_118808963

What?

In the majority of sports, where strength and speed are vital in order to win, men have an advantage. In gymnastics andother sports which are more suited to women eg certain gymnastics etc, women have an advantage. That's why we segregate sports into male and female.

Male and females are different. Doesn't matter how or what you identify as. That's not an opinion.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808996#Comment_118808996

I asked you simply if you consider Thomas to be a woman biologically scientifically physiologically equivalent to myself (I should have stipulated myself at Thomas’s age maybe) and you quite clearly do believe that it is possible to change sex by simply changing your name and adopting all the mannerisms and traits of people born to the sex that you wish to be. That is entirely your prerogative of course and I don’t wish you any ill will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809018#Comment_118809018

Ffs. Here we go.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808978#Comment_118808978

“No not that proof!!! A different type of proof!!! Men are NOT stronger then women!!!”

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809065#Comment_118809065

What about the other sports?

We are being told by you and your cohort that women's sports are threatened by transgender athletes.

Now, suddenly, it's only in specific sports that require certain physical abilities where transgender women WILL have an advantage over cis women - do we ignore the other sports then? The one's a lot of women participate in?

Are there hoards of big, fast, strong, transgender women sweeping the boards in the specific sports you are so concerned about to provide a verifiable data set?

Guess what - in the sports you mention some cis men and cis women are born with the genetic advantage of being bigger/stronger/faster than other cis men/cis women. What should we do to make that fair?

I have heard left-handed tennis players over 6 foot tall have a serious advantage when serving - should we ban them?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809094#Comment_118809094

You know how swimming works, right?

There are multiple disciplines over multiple distances.

You have claimed that Lia Thomas is the #1 ranked swimmer in the NCAA. And your proof is that she is the best at one stroke over 2 distances, and she didn’t even win one of those races at the NCAA Championship.

Are you pretending that you don’t know this or are you actually this misinformed?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809018#Comment_118809018

Not sure why you quoted ultra-endurance sports again as I answered it a couple of pages ago last time you posted it.

Males may not be better at all sports but are better at the vast majority of them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809120#Comment_118809120

It's very **** simple. If sports are segregated into male and female categories, only allow females and males to compete in those categories.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809065#Comment_118809065

Women gymnastics events are different from males to reduce the strength requirements, there's a few videos out there of male gymnasts performing female routines, again, it's not a level playing field.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809080#Comment_118809080

Do not dare tell me what I do not and do not believe. You do not have that right.

I believe Thomas is a woman who was born into the biologically incorrect body. So she obviously is not biologically similar to a woman born into the biologically correct body - but here is the rub. Not every women born into the biologically correct body has a body that is biologically correct. Sometimes something goes wrong. 1 in 5,000 women are born with MRKH syndrome. Are they women even though they do not have a womb?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/mrkh-syndrome-what-is-women-infertility-health-mayer-rokitansky-kuster-hauser-a8622546.html

I do not believe anyone would go through what Thomas is being subjected to on a whim. I believe she is incredibly brave and I am glad that science has advanced enough to be able to assist her in correcting the changes nature made.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809149#Comment_118809149

They do have that right.

And your word salad about what you believe comes down to the fact that you think a biological man is a woman.

24fedfc4852063de91e40ff32851f717ac0f4e9201dc25374a4d11eb71c6ad85_1.jpg

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809183#Comment_118809183

Im not bothered. The entire world can see exactly what’s happening here and even the most ardent notable trans activists can accept that what you see is what you get here and that Thomas shouldn’t be allowed to compete any further. If a few people want to sit in the corner facing the wall with their fingers in their ears then let them.

Mr Bumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809018#Comment_118809018

Performance, ability, and physiology are three different things.

You are constantly conflating them. Black is not white.

There is no debate about women transitioning to men being an issue in male sports, nobody complaining that someone with the physiology of a woman who identifies as a man, has an unfair advantage.

Why?

Because they don't have an unfair advantage. There are no women identifying as men winning male varsity swim meets in America.

There are men identifying as women winning varsity swim meets in America. Because they have an unfair advantage.

Black is not white and rights come with fairness and responsibility. If rights conferred on one group cause a problem for another, this should be acknowledged. Instead of doing that, you are warping reality to suit your wishes, trying to argue pears are indeed apples.

You pretend that the distress this issue causes for many female athletes is just bigotry, that trans' distress is somehow more worthy.

I see this a lot across all the platforms, usually accompanied with much hormonal angst and abuse aimed at ordinary people with ordinary thoughts.

Hectoring and lecturing.

Bad idea.

batman_oh

*

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808733#Comment_118808733

Your eyes are confirming what you already believed based upon nothing, and now you have an anecdote to confirm your prejudices. You’re entitled to claim that science and biology supports your opinions, but it’s glaringly obvious your objection to the participation of people who transgender in sports is based neither upon biology nor science, but prejudice.

There’s no need for Emperor’s New Clothes or anything else, a fable which could be applied both ways given you present “the most prominent trans activists” as some sort of an authority on the matter in support of your own personal opinion that discrimination against people who are transgender is justifiable based upon the evidence of a single anecdote.

It’s like you imagine that context doesn’t matter, that the very thing you’re relying on has nothing to do with science or biology, and everything to do with your own personal feelings on the matter, backed up by people who agree with you, as if that should matter to anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

It’s essentially as though you imagine you have the authority to determine other peoples rights, and if they draw attention to themselves by winning in competition, they’re somehow “damaging the cause” so should go back to being invisible - out of sight, out of mind. You can see why it wouldn’t just be people who are transgender would refuse to do that, in spite of yours and anyone else’s efforts to humiliate and coerce people into submission to your ideals.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809125#Comment_118809125

Here’s a paragraph from a letter from the parents of the female swimmers in the race. It’s part of a long letter published in the NYP this weekend. You don’t accept any of this?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809461#Comment_118809461

You claimed Lia Thomas was the #1 women’s swimmer in the NCAA. Your proof of this was an article which said she was the best in one stroke over two distances.

Do you accept that your statement was misleading (possibly unintentionally) and that you have no evidence that she’s the best collegiate swimmer period?

I’m not talking about anything else. I don’t care for letters, protests, etc. People involved are making their feelings known about it.

You, on the other hand, are making statements which just are not true. That’s the only thing I’m focusing on here.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809461#Comment_118809461

At the risk of stating the obvious, but you’ve not only avoided answering the question, you’ve gone off on an entirely different tangent to ask a question of your own on the basis of yet another image which you’re posting which is just as misleading as your last image.

I mean, for someone who claims to value truth and what they see with their own eyes, no disrespect intended but you’re making a poor effort of practicing what you preach.

Here’s a link to full letter, for context -

https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/parents-of-ivy-league-swimmers-write-letting-lia-thomas-swim-isnt-fair/

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808668#Comment_118808668

Are we adding humans to that list now? Did someone say 'anti science' and 'anti biology'

I think we should all be able to cut through the bluster here.

Should a man who thinks he is a woman be able to be recognised as his preferred gender and claim to be the fastest woman in a race when he is demonstrably not a woman?

Some say yes, some say no.

I don't think a common ground will be found as some people think that the fact that someone is a man doesn't matter when it comes to defining sex and some people feel that it absolutely does.

If sex can be malleable, why can't age, height or weight?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809528#Comment_118809528

I have no idea how your brain is perceiving this letter. I imagine that somehow you are reading it and seeing it as supportive of Thomas. You appear to have a huge capacity to view things only through your own very narrow perspective. It’s very odd.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809540#Comment_118809540

No difference between it happening in nature and medical intervention/surgery/drugs it seems

A bit of googling tells me that Caitlyn Jenner is calling bullsh*t on this. Navratilova, too. That's good enough for me.