Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638658#Comment_118638658

How do I explain what? I don’t really understand the point you are trying to make.

Podge_irl

It does not work like that. There are levels of testosterone that they would need to have. If they were a boy then transitioned they would need to have their hormone levels down to a certain level below 10. The simple declaration that they are now a girl does not hold any ground.

Under the new IOC guidelines at least, the baseline is that they would not need any testosterone reduction. It is up to the sports federations to provide evidence to change this - a somewhat difficult proposition as significant research on a sport by sport basis would take years to accumulate while all current non-specific studies suggest the "no presumption of advantage" remark is insanely wide of the mark. Regardless, a reduction in testosterone below a certain level does not mitigate for the effects of testosterone during puberty.

The general grounding in medecine plus his masters in Neurobiology makes him a prime candidate to understand it from all angles. 

It makes him a prime candidate to understand it from a neurobiological standpoint, not a physiological one. Areas of expertise exist for a reason. Now he can, of course, be well versed in the area and studied up on it but he has no claim to authority by his background.

Notwithstanding the fact that this thread is about a person winning an athletics competition and not about a hypothetical situation about Jim Furyk becoming transgender, the fact that he can drive further is not really relevant as there is a lot more to golf than long drives.

It is absolutely relevant, because it is a massive advantage in a significant part of the sport. Otherwise why have different tees in the first place?

I don't care for arguments about "what if person X suddenly decided they were a woman" because they are not even what I would make the argument based on. Trans people evidently exist and deserve to be treated with as much dignity as anyone and accommodated in their gender as much as is practical. Sports are not segregated by gender (by the current definition/understanding of gender, there would be no reason for them to be), they are segregated by sex because it is the sex characteristics that introduce such a massive, yawning gap in performance. No amount of lowering of testosterone in adulthood removes this - and that is without getting into the ethically grey area of 'forcing' medicalisation of athletes. There are competing rights at play here and it is not actually possible to square them.

chopperbyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638658#Comment_118638658

There are physical aspects to snooker. For one, the table is huge. Men are in general taller, with longer reach, so would need to use the rests a lot less.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639180#Comment_118639180

women have better things to be doing with their time, I dont know much about the background of top class snooker players but I bet it involved a lot of skipping school and endless weekends in snooker halls as kids.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639876#Comment_118639876

Kind of similar to a pro footballer.........lots of skipping school and endless weekends at the soccer pitch as kids.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118640694#Comment_118640694

its almost a pattern, someone should study this strange patterned behaviour lol

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639876#Comment_118639876

Based on your post it appears that you believe that what makes a top class snooker player is skipping school as a kid to go to the snooker hall, as well as weekends.

you then say women have better things to be doing with their time which seems to contradict your previous statement about ‘as a kid’.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118642979#Comment_118642979

I dont get your chain of thought unless you mean I should have used "girls" instead of "women" but my point was was that boys that go on to win sht as adults tend to be more obsessive as kids, Snooker isnt a brute force/physical game but depends on years of practice to get little movements right. Neither is it a "socially accpetable" sport for kids ie its not something done in schools.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639180#Comment_118639180

I'm a pool 'shark'. I've been playing since a teenager to this day. Even in pool women do not play as well as men do. The size of the table makes no difference.

So the point I would make is that the difference between men and women in sport is MORE that just the physical difference.

“When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie.”

― Yevgeny Yevtushenko

vriesmays

If a 10 year boy junior chess champion declared himself a woman he would win every woman-only chess competition.

https://twitter.com/PennSwimDive/status/1494456818474565638?t=3apuEtXcL-taDYzjY62SEg&s=19

Congratulations Catherine.

plodder

No surprise there that Lia Thomas has set a new record, one that natal females may never be able to break.

Here's an article describing a mother and daughter who are both athletes and their experience competing against trans women.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10528815/US-track-star-says-allowing-male-bodied-athletes-compete-end-womens-sport.html

Richard Hillman

The Americans can screw their own system over all they want. When they start getting to Olympic Level it won't be tolerated by China or Russia.

New Zealand got away with their wackyness because the weightlifter didn't have a chance. If a Chinese athlete missed out on a medal because of something like this, things would change very quickly.

Lia Thomas will be competing against Irish Olympian Ellen Walshe in next month's NCAA championship.

https://twitter.com/donncha_e/status/1493511084359270409?s=20&t=BgBzOAh2RocsyT4BY4z-uA

Richard Hillman

Athletes won't speak out about it. Not the top ones anyway. They'd be waving away any prospects of being given sponsorships by the likes of Nike or Adidas. Their advertising departments are absolutely entrenched with this type of stuff.

Quantum Erasure

swimming again today, came first in the prelims of the 500 yard freestyle, finals on later...

https://twitter.com/SwimmingWorld/status/1504498007181516802

https://twitter.com/_InTheWeedsPod/status/1504510677276405766

TooTired123

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/17/lia-thomas-first-trans-woman-ncaa-swimming-championship

One way or the other this is eventually going to end in tears for someone.

Is it time to introduce a 3rd category for sports competitions? So we’d have men women and gender-free?

Everything about this current situation is wrong and no amount of anti science anti biology pro “feelings” is going to change that.

A third category is needed. Now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237840/lia-thomas

talk about selective reporting from the Guardians. the entire crowd were supporting the 2nd place swimmer, and gave Lia Thomas the silent treatment

yerwanthere123

I support anyone's right to transition but not to the extent that other people are blatantly being discriminated against.

How does swimming regulate this at World Championship/Olympic level? I know sports like tennis have a gender participation policy, so this situation would simply never be allowed to arise. Hopefully it's the same in swimming.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802113#Comment_118802113

At Olympic level? They are fully compliant with the absolute garbage IOC guidelines.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802045#Comment_118802045

The Guardian are appealing to a very selective readership.

Most of them would find any kind of facts quite “triggering”.

Shield

You know it’s bad when you have to publicly deny what you see with your own eyes or you’re a [insert insult here]. I’ll stop there lest I draw the ire of the pronoun brigade.

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802273#Comment_118802273

Ah yes, I think I remember the IOC copping out recently and saying it's up to the individual sports themselves to sort out. I imagine this was done on the assumption that most trans athletes wouldn't be serious contenders on the world stage, but they may have a problem if Lia Thomas keeps progressing at the rate she is.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802702#Comment_118802702

Slightly worse than that. The IOC came out and said that it is up to individual sports, however they should start from a baseline of no presumption of advantage and need to provide significant evidence to justify any exclusion.

corny

Read the first 2 or 3 pages of this thread. One observation. How does the OP escape a thread ban? That's trolling in any other forum.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802923#Comment_118802923

Explain how it's trolling.

AllForIt

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/17/lia-thomas-first-trans-woman-ncaa-swimming-championship

“I try to ignore it as much as I can,” Thomas said. “I try to focus on my swimming .. and just try to block out everything else.”

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118639876#Comment_118639876

Hard work

Kermit.de.frog

No expert on swimming. To help us understand - how far would this person, Lia Thomas, get in elite male swimming competition?

It's funny Putin talks about decadence of the west yesterday or the day before when referencing gender politics 'poison' and keeping it out of Russia and then you see stuff like this that would actually make you sympathetic to that.

What even is this we are creating at this stage? It's bonkers.

This is not "progress". It's dystopian.