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Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness *spoilers from post 118*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Not being pedantic. Just looking for clarification on the definition there seems to be several beside the the you gave. I’ve seen MaGuire and Garfield’s roles in No Way Home called cameos.

    The word (like many others) is often used wrong just like remake and reboot.

    For myself, the Stan Lee appearances and Bruce Campbell (can’t Raimi just give the man a main role in a movie?) are cameos - which I have always thought of as brief appearances of someone well known for no other reason than a bit of fun that have no consequence to the poly..

    The Illuminati matters a great deal to the story so they supporting actors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Anson Mount is a Star Trek looks like Anson Mount. There is nothing to cover up.

    I’d imagine the reason for the helmet is to give him the proper costume. I didn’t recognise him at all - even in the close ups I was thinking “it is a pity they didn’t get Anson Mount - I wonder how he feels seeing Cox, Stewart and the Sony Spider-Man gang get into these movies but not him” :p

    The Incredible Hulk is a great movie. I know a lot of people say they don’t like it but I’ve yet to hear why?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    The MaGuire and Garfield Parkers are also older than the Holland Parker.

    There are so many worlds in the Multiverse that there must be billions of combinations relationships, marriages, parentages, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    No retcons would be needed for a Fantastic Four origin movie. Just becasue the group got their powers years ago on that world doesn’t mess it has to be the same on 616

    Mutants are a problem. I don’t see anyway in which mutants X-Men exist in 616 - they need the involvement in history plus regular people fear/hate mutants but adore other superpowers beings? It makes no sense in the comics either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    I hear what you are saying... but, even before Disney got back the Marvel characters, there was a plan in place to introduce them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85,996 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    It's looks to be cleaning up at the box office, another Marvel hit



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I agree about F4, I was more thinking no need to have to do an origin for them, and no need to have to do retcon for Xmen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The whole "Dawn of X" era only started after the Fox/Disney merger so I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU just used Krakoa in a similar way to how they used Wakanda in order to get mutants up and running easily.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Regardless of how long this Illuminati encounter was planned I think having Fantastic Four not be from 616 would be unnecessarily complicated. Having them exist in an alternate Earth cuts them of from easy crossovers. Why have them move to 616 when it is easier that they have their origin post-Madness.

    Mutants can only exist elsewhere other than 616 and they while prejudice element wouldn’t make sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Why do you thing a fantastic Four origin isn’t necessary?

    I think a story showing how they adjust to their powers would be fun.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Mutants are definitely an easier fit than the Fantastic Four.

    The supposed prejudice problem was always overblown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Same reason we didn't need one for Spider-Man, they're some of the biggest Marvel characters and most people know their origin (it's been done in two movies now). Marvel has also avoided origin stories for the likes of Black Panther and Captain Marvel (and Moon Knight) where we first see them already having their powers and then get some backstory info rather than having an origin story.

    The first Doctor Strange, Shang-Chi, Eternals... origin stories are worthwhile because they're introductions to new aspects of the MCU (magic, mystics, Eternals) and somewhat lesser-known characters. But we don't need that with F4.

    Don't get me wrong, if they have the right story to make it worthwhile, absolutely go for it. But for a property like F4, an origin story at this stage probably isn't necessary imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    you are very wrong there.

    Fantastic Four can be dropped into the MCU very easily.

    Mutants not an easy fit at all - how do they suddenly appear all at once? If they’ve been on 616 the whole time why haven’t they come to the attention of S.H.I.E.L.D. or the Avengers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Thats where the idea of using Krakoa like Wakanda as a mutant homeland and a rough version of "Dawn of X" as a origin comes in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    “Everyone” knows the origin of Spider-Man and Batman. They are both bigger than the movies and comics and you can have a movie that skips showing it.

    Fantastic Four are not as big as them and I don’t think you can just drop them into the MCU like Spider-Man without showing how they get created.

    I think the MCU should introduce Latveria and Doctor Doom before a Fantastic Four movie. Have the country involved in a couple of movies first.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Like I said, Black Panther, Cap.Marvel and Moon Knight didn't have true origin stories and are far less well known with much weirder origins. Even with Ant-Man we got Scott's origin story but Hank was already Ant-Man before that and we didn't get or need an origin story for him.

    I think it's a case of having trust in the audience. That unless there's a reason why an origin story is needed, they can just jump into a story where the heroes already have their powers, provide whatever context/backstory is needed through exposition or flashbacks, and trust that the audience can follow it.

    Anyway, agree to disagree. Like I said if there's a decent story reason for it (tying into the villain or setting up something big), then by all means. But I don't think we need an origin story for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭santana75


    Just couldn't get into this. Started off well but I found my attention drifting and by the final act I had lost interest completely. Its a credit to the fine actor benedict cumberbatch is that he can sprout some very ropey dialogue and not look foolish. I suspect that you'd have to have seen Wanda vision in order to understand everything going on here because there were references that went completely over my head that seemed crucial to the plot. Emily blunt made a comment recently about Marvel fatigue and I definitely felt that with this film.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,188 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Saw it earlier and enjoyed it. Starts out alright but ends good if that makes sense.

    It is basically The Evil Dead crossed with Marvel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    But then wouldn’t Marvel lose the potential of stories going back decades if they all live on a secret island? Stories like the did with First Class, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    I thought you meant just start off with a Fantastic Four story with no explanation of the origin at all - doing it like Captain Marvel and Moon Knight where the origin is dealt with is what I was trying to suggest but I didn’t explain myself properly.

    Another option is to have the incident in space be part of another movie - for example in Ms. Marvel in there is great publicity around Richards and the team are in space in newspapers and on TV in the background - perhaps broadcasting to Earth schools about their experiments when the accident occurs. Or maybe Captain Marvel saves them during The Marvels and we see them taken to hospital.

    and Latvaria should start being mentioned in movies and shows too before Doctor Doom appears.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭jo187


    It been established that fantastic four has already happened in the MCU.

    Strange says to Reed didn't you guys get lost in space? Or something to that effect.

    So either the FF have gotten there powers and been living in space and come back to earth for some reason...like a guy with a big purple head.

    Or the ship comes back to mcu earth and due to time moving different where ever they were, what was only a few hours for them, has been years for us. So they have to struggle with new powers and being out of time.

    Seems the most likely options.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    I was looking forward to this as there were a lot of aspects that had my interest, from Wanda to Raimi....but I left just thinking it was good to ok. Maybe my hopes were too high after NWH.

    Is it just me or did the 838 universe come across as the worst version of themselves? To see such iconic characters, as a unit, get dismissed so easily was just a strange decision. And as I said, I say that as a fan of Wanda and I have been waiting to see her powers get their due. Just seemed to across as a **** it, we're not using these actors again so who cares.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    no Strange doesn’t mention space, he says something about the 70s like “bet you would have been big in the 70s - a nod to the popularity of the team and quip about the “silly name”.

    There were no superheroes known to the public prior to Iron Man.

    Why go the convoluted path of having them lost in space for 50 years for no reason when they can easily be added to the roster of heroes by having them become super powered in here and now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭jo187


    I have only seen it once but that was definitely not what strange said. He mentioned something about space and there ship being lost.

    There weren't superheroes when there ship went into space they got there powers up there.

    Superheroes existed in the MCU before Iron Man. Of course this was all added post Iron man but it's been established since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    I didn’t say superheroes didn’t exist.

    I said that the public didn’t know about them.

    The original Ant-Man and Wasp were secrets, no one knew about Captain Marvel except for limited number of people who kept her secret, etc.

    I’ve only seen the film once too and Strange doesn’t say anything about being lost in space. I was wrong myself though - I’ve been told Strange said “the poo group from the 60s/70s” (decade is unclear)



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭jo187


    Captain America was a superhero and everyone knew about him. The hulk film came out before Iron Man as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    The lost in space quote is from WandaVision, its said to Maria when she comes back to SHIELD



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Did the public know about Cap?

    He did war bond campaigns and such but didn’t people just think he was an entertainer? I thought the missions against Hydra were secret.

    Hulk wasn’t a hero until until the battle of Manhattan. Before that Weren’t S.H.I.E.L.D. covering up his existence? The only times he had been seen out in public were the two fights in the movie and the information was suppressed to make those who talked about seem crazy. I thought Black Widow said that to Banner along with how S.H.I.E.L.D. kept putting Ross off his back.

    I’m open to correction on these but in this film Strange doesn’t know the Fantastic Four as a group of astronauts lost in space. He mocks the name.

    On Earth 838 the Fantastic Four have been around for years. On Earth 616 they are still human and Strange has never heard of Reed Richards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    You think Jo187 is mixing the two up?

    Maybe binged WandaVision before the film?

    I’d mix the things up myself if I binged a series - I’m episode a week person. Maybe two a week sometimes but days apart.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭jo187


    People like agent coulson worshipped Cap, he died a hero, I think people knew he was a super hero otherwise why would he be such a big deal?

    I guess the hulk stuff might have been suppressed. It's one of those things when you retroactively add things to the world not everything going to stay straight.

    I might have mixed up the wandavision stuff and strange stuff.

    I dont think we have met 616 reed yet so the lost in time/space could pan out. I rather they have there powers for a while and get on with it, instead of another origin story.



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