Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness *spoilers from post 118*

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036761#Comment_119036761

I haven’t seen those comments.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036825#Comment_119036825

You clearly don’t understand anything.

People flocking to every Marvel movie, cheering in the seats and the movies are breaking box offices records.

THAT is Marvel fatigue

:p

Spon Farmer

@[Deleted User]

the ‘RA ?

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036825#Comment_119036825

When people talk about Marvel fatigue they generally mean people's willingness to take part in a whole new IP with brand new central and tertiary characters.

Dr. Strange and Spiderman are still tied to what came before and also linked with very well known heroes; people are familiar with them, invested in them, and want to see more of the universe they already know.

Dr. Strange made more in a few days than Shang Chi and Eternals made in their entire runs and that's pretty much why.

That is more where the fatigue comes into play. Most of the upcoming films involve either characters already established firmly in previous phases or tied to characters that were, so I'd imagine they will pretty much all do well. Thor, Black Panther, Guardians, etc will all continue to do very good numbers.

Shang Chi and Eternals were entirely seperate so people just were not as bothered. I saw both in the cinema and was completely indifferent to both, though Shang Chi is pretty OK standard Marvel fare where Eternals is just plain bad.

flazio

<deleted post>..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037554#Comment_119037554

Am I the only one who heard Wolf Tones blare “COME OUT YE BLACK AND TANS” the moment Carter got Darth Mauled? I mean….all that Britannia Reborn getup…. It riled my inner Republican.

though imagine Captain Carter vs. Killmonger. That would be chair-popcorn….

brianregan09

It is said a bunch of times in this that it's the Darkhold that corrupts people , so this is a perfect continuation for her arc she had starting using the Darkhold at the end of Wandavision and obviously it'd had taken hold of her it wasn't all her basically that was willing to straight up murder America Chavez

It goes in to detail to show what happened 2 of the other Stranges that they couldn't handle it , one destroyed universes the other one ended up being melted by the Illuminati

I loved it and was engaged through all of it , Love how Horror centric they made it and suits the strange property so well

I'd love if they gave Sam Raimi the keys to the Ghost Rider franchise , a proper one not the shite that new line gave us with Nicholas Cage ,

titan18

Ya, just seen it and I thought it was a bit crap. It ain't Thor 2 or Eternals bad but it's not good either. The horror elements were interesting considering its a MCU film but outside that and Olsen being a great actress, it didn't have much else.

Had the same issue as Spiderman of throwing cameos at the film to make up for the lack of a film. Keeps the seals clapping when you throw new faces on screen.

Also, it might be the worst CGI in any MCU film. The fight at the start with the eye monster was very ropey. You could see the outline from the CGI around them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037928#Comment_119037928

That isn't the definition for fatigue that posters have written on threads here over and over again. When they've spoken about Marvel fatigue they've said along the lines of 'Endgame was the peak and I don't really care anymore' - it was a much broader fatigue for Marvel.

Nearly universally the public have been slow to pick up on new lesser known MCU characters that don't have an external driver, like Black Panther or Captain Marvel. For example, the original Dr Strange movie took in less than half of this movie on its opening weekend.

Shang-Chi and Eternals were released during COVID so aren't a good barometer for interest, on some measures they actually far outdid the likes of Ant-Man. It is hard enough to get the public to watch a new hero, it is even harder during a pandemic when the public isn't interested in most casual visits to the cinema.

The point you are making above regarding the upcoming MCU movies is one that I was making to those claiming/hoping for fatigue. The initial post COVID run up until Spider-Man was basically a palate cleanser for the MCU, they're now back to their 'A' and 'B' characters rather than the 'C' and 'D' and the audience is back nearly as much as before.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038985#Comment_119038985

How sad are people that they are hoping for fatigue for any kind of movie?

if a person doesn’t like something then why are they watching it and/or devoting time to typing about my it here?

ThePott

Overall I quite enjoyed it. Perhaps a bit underwhelmed as I'm not sure it made the most of the Multiverse aspects but I think that was just based on expectation and I'm sure we'll be getting more of that in future anyway. Although I do feel like the Multiverses we got were a bit uninteresting. I loved the direction and cinematography, feels like an absolute Raimi film and I loved that.

I feel like the action was inconsistent. The creative magic scenes were excellent and I loved the Illuminati vs. Wanda but some scenes amounted to lazer fights which were a shame but thankfully they were few and far between. I did think the end with Wanda was a bit obvious and simple, not entirely satisfying, although I do applaud them for going for not the usual big punchy fight ending. Olsen made for a great villain too. I do like the darkness and weirdness about the film. To me it feels like a film that in retrospect might actually be viewed better, removed from the hype and as part of the larger Multiverse elements Marvel are no doubt working towards.

As always I've done a video review if anyone wants to hear my thoughts in more details.

https://youtu.be/72mQ_nUIB0M

Sleepy

Personally speaking, I think the Marvel Fatigue is beginning to sink in a bit for me.

I've only missed two of the MCU movies in cinematic release: Black Widow (because of Covid) and The Eternals (because the trailer didn't entice me and early reviews matched my scepticism). I'll definitely still go see Thor: Love and Thunder and Guardians of the Galaxy 3 in the cinema but the other upcoming movies I'm not too pushed about (tbf, if it werent' for the loss of Chadwick Boseman Wakanda Forever would have been a lock for me too).

B.A._Baracus

I am surprised many haven't already got marvel fatigue. Lot of movies so far. I remember having it when civil War came out!

TheIrishGrover

Yeah. This is pretty much my exact same experience. The same apathy. Right from Iron Man 1 until Endgame there was a through line (Even if it was tenuous links from time to time). Endgame definitely seemed to be the end (No pun intended). Everything post this I consider individual movies that I may or may not watch. TBH, I was kind of on the fence about even going to see this in the cinema. Main draw was that I had a day off and hadn't been to the cinema in ages. And Sam Raimi made it.

Had Raimi not made it, I prob wouldn't have gone.

Had I been to the cinema recently I prob wouldn't have gone.

I thoroughly enjoyed No Way Home. I am looking forward to Guardians and especially Thor but mainly because of their directors and tone as opposed to being part of the MCU. I WAS looking forward to Black Panther 2 mainly because of Bosman who was fantastic. But now...

So whereas Phase 1-3 was essential and unmissable for me (Even if they were poor like Ironman and Thor 2). But now it's a case of "Meh. I'll catch them on Disney+". And THAT is MCU fatigue

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049888#Comment_119049888

I thought this was ok. I saw Black Widow for its own sake and Eternals because I was visiting a friend who wanted to see it. Cost £5 in a cinema apparently run by ex-prisoners apparently.

I was a bit concerned that by now shelling out for Disney+ I'd be missing something I'd need for this. I was both right and wrong. Marvel stuff isn't really story heavy but apparently, now Wanda is the villain because reasons. I suspect this is elucidated in Wandavision but I've no interest in spending £10 a month to find out.

Like you, I'll be seeing Thor and Guardians but I feel like Marvel have passed their peak. It's hard to see where the next Thanos will come from.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050656#Comment_119050656

They're either pinning their hopes on that "he who remains" in Loki, that "brother of Thanos" from the end of Eternals or Val from FATWS and Black Widow.

TheIrishGrover

Soooooo. Yer wan from Seinfeld and yer man from One Direction?...... Yeah..... I think I'm good with Thor 4 and Guardians so. lol

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050880#Comment_119050880

Jesus, I barely remember Black Widow at all. I'm not going to watch FATWS just to see that either.

I get why they're spreading stuff about but limiting the series to their own service just erects a barrier. I'm still pissed that they took Daredevil, Punisher, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones off Netflix.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050978#Comment_119050978

FATW is good but Hawkeye is more directly related to Black Widow for reasons. Well, Hawkeye/Black Widow relationship. (Hawkeye is also an enjoyable romp, to be fair)

brianregan09

For most of phase 1 no one knew what was coming or what even a thanos was until the post credit tag of Avengers , it was dripped in bit by bit , there not gonna reveal there main plan 4 or 5 movies into the essentially new phase 1

They have massive vacuums to fill with RDJ and Evans leaving and of course poor Chadwick passing , there not gonna do a DC on it and just throw them all in with little or no background , Marvel fatigue I 100% it for people who are just invested in the movies I can tell you now it's 100% not going to be the seinfeld lady lol and Star Fox (harry styles character) is a good guy

pjohnson

I think Boseman was probably the most likely to lead the next MCU phase. Now its just spinning wheels until they bring in the F4 and X-Men.

TheIrishGrover

That actually sounds right. As a character he would have the technology and cash to fund The Avengers. As an actor he had the gravitas and you know that Marvel would investigate bringing back Michael B Jordan (in alternative multiverse form) after his fantastic performance (Black Panther was only let down by its pretty generic final battle. A common problem with Marvel movies IMHO. The central performances in BP were probably the best in any MCU movie)

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055188#Comment_119055188

I honestly think that the F-4 are the worst characters I've ever seen in comics. They're so bland and uninteresting. If this is what they have to resort to, I think their days are numbered.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056028#Comment_119056028

And remember: we've had two attempts at F4 already. One a super earnest, cornball version aping the Sam Raimi Spidey films, the other a reboot trying for grim seriousness. IMO F4 is too goofy, too much a relic of the "anything goes" nature of old school comic-books and it'd take a supremely - fantastically, if you will - talented writer and director to make them work. I have an itch we won't see Reed Richards an co for a long while.

brianregan09

Fantastic Four is already in pre production

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056200#Comment_119056200

I don't remember the second one at all. I know it exists but I've no idea who's in it or anything like that.

I missed Morbius which I think is in the Sony Universise but even still, I think they way they've either ringfenced more interesting properties like Moon Knight behind their streaming service or started trawling for characters to keep things expanding for its own sake is going to prove to be their own undoing.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057540#Comment_119057540

I don't doubt it. Is there a writer/director attached?

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057576#Comment_119057576

It was meant to be Jon Watts following up No Way Home, but he dropped out of the project a few weeks ago: https://deadline.com/2022/04/spider-man-jon-watts-exits-marvel-fantastic-four-film-1235013110/

"Nothing sinister here; Watts just needs a break from the superhero realm after completing the Spidey trilogy with Tom Holland and Zendaya. He had expected to make Fantastic Four his next film, the third feature iteration of that franchise and first since Disney acquired Fox, which controlled the franchise. Watts has spent the better part of the last decade directing and promoting the Spider-Man films, after being hired off Cop Car, a small-budget indie thriller that premiered at 2015 Sundance. He needs a breather."

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057582#Comment_119057582

No great loss. Cop Car was fun but as enjoyable as the Spidey movies have been, the direction has been more anonymous than most MCU films. Which is obviously the point.

flazio

It's weird how in two universes the Human Torch resembled Captain America and Killmonger

McFly85

I really liked it. It was a bit exposition heavy and some of the fight scenes weren’t great and I wanted it to lean more into the bizarre(Dead Strange with his cape of the damned was great!), but there were strong performances and I was entertained for what could now be considered a breezy 2 hours.

The film got stronger as it went on, it was cool to see the Illuminati even if they were just a crap Avengers.

Ive never had Marvel fatigue really, but I don’t really care about spoilers now and I don’t go out of my way to see them as soon as possible anymore. When I do go though I still enjoy them all for what they are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050656#Comment_119050656

Funny thing is, Wandavision had the potential to be superb but instead it ended up becoming a setup for this. It would have been far better if it had a self contained conclusion.

Fysh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063279#Comment_119063279

For me, an issue I have with both superhero comics generally and the MCU films is that the whole "shared storytelling canvas" thing means that you mostly get "Act 2" stories, and very rarely get something like Infinity War/Endgame that lets any characters' stories have a conclusion. Which is great if you enjoy the wider tapestry, but can be frustrating if you want to just take specific bits on their own merits.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063812#Comment_119063812

Yep, it's why the likes of standalone Batman stories have tended to be better imho than the best of Marvel imho. I just find the epic stories to be a bit draining.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063812#Comment_119063812

The MCUs greatest strength is definitely its weakness as well. Calling them "act 2" stories is a good summation. I do wish sometimes the non-event films weren't trying to set up 3 films down the road and concentrated on their own story. Unless it's a villain, weirdly, as Marvel have killed off a tonne of potentially useful ongoing villains in their 3rd acts. Killmonger being the most obvious there.

youngblood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057582#Comment_119057582

It was apparently going to be Mad Men/Lost in Space Vibe for the Fantastic 4 reboot and although it sounded interesting, I'm relieved they're thinking of going in a different direction

Foxtrol

Seems some are equating 'fatigue' with not being as excited or interested for any of the recent movies as they were for IW/Endgame or those marquee movies immediately before. If that is the high bar you've set then you were never going to be satisfied by phase 4.

Marvel aren't trying to get fans as interested in or hit the heights of payoff as Endgame in these movies, these are telling their own stories and developing their own characters while setting the foundation for the Endgame type 'event' cross-over movies to come several years from now. It was the exact same for the early days of the MCU.

Just because we can't see a clear through line at this stage doesn't mean it isn't there - who would have called that Ant-Man, one of the lowest draw characters in the MCU, would drive multiple key plot points for the conclusion of the Infinity Saga? Few, if any, would have thought that the Infinity Saga would have lasted as long as it did - most presumed Avenger 2 would include Thanos.

Having this discussion now is like watching the first 3 episodes of a new season of a show with 24 episodes and grumbling that you aren't as interested as you were for the previous finale and that you don't see where this season is going yet. This happens quite often but I've never heard it called 'fatigue' aside from when it comes to Marvel. It is perfectly natural and happens with every single long running material - it isn't some specific issue with the MCU. Some people are going to stop watching and some new fans will be brought in - once the former doesn't dramatically outnumber the latter then the MCU will continue to be an unrivaled success story. Practically all metrics at this stage point to it going from strength to strength.

johnny_ultimate

I think a lot of directors have tried to put their own stamp on the MCU to very mixed success, but Raimi makes one of the better stabs at it in this. It’s not a patch on Spider-Man let alone his very best work, but he has a surprising amount of fun here adding a little more ghoulishness and nastiness to proceedings. I mean there’s nothing here to rattle anyone over the age of 10 or anything like that, but to have a scene where several iconic superheroes get ripped apart in quick succession is jolly good fun. The music duel is also a delight, and there’s plenty of that recognisably kinetic Raimi camerawork scattered throughout.

And yet elsewhere it often doesn’t work at all. For all the Raimi flourishes, a lot of the more standard fare here looks extraordinarily cheap - the image looked distractingly raw at times, and some scenes even had a hint of soap opera effect. Spider-Man got some deserved flak for its dodgy green screen stuff and flat lighting, but this was maybe even worse in my book. Some terribly weightless CG and several sequences where it’s clear some of the actors aren’t even in the same room.

The story’s also held together with a snapped elastic band - they don’t even try to put the pieces together elegantly. The way Wanda is haphazardly introduced into the story as the main antagonist is confounding in its laziness. Especially seeing this after the infinitely more imaginative Everything Everywhere…, the MCU take on the multiverse can’t help but seem extremely tepid in comparison.

And yet the second half of the film has enough of the Raimi signature that it elevates what otherwise would have been c-tier Marvel into something a tad better than that. Chloe Zhao may have made a more distinctive film overall, but her style clashed violently with the MCU house storytelling style. This is in many ways Marvel by the numbers, and yet Raimi at least brings an important trait to the party: he’s having fun.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119070811#Comment_119070811

Genuinely curious if you work for Marvel because in every single thread I've seen relating to a Marvel property - you rush along to tell anybody who didn't enjoy it why they are wrong for not enjoying it. Or you'll recontextualise their points to fit your own agenda and argue against those new points. It's bloody hilarious at this point.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119069445#Comment_119069445

The direction will be interesting cos I'm not immediately sure what third way you could play one of Marvel's more persistently goofball properties (I'm still disappointed the Josh Trank reboot didn't commit to the Cronenberg body horror, if only cos it would have been more interesting, unique than the horrible, wiggy mess we got).

Obviously GotG met the talking Racoon and tree head on, leaning into the comedy and inherent madness of the MCUs cosmic backyard - not sure how you do that with a bunch of otherwise ordinary humans in the F4. The comedic, more meta MCU has generally run with its aliens and whatnot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073188#Comment_119073188

I still persist with the belief this whole project is to (re)open doors to Raimi. Curry favour or financing for some small production he has in mind. It has always been a singular decision, replacing a workaday director with a known creative like Raimi.

FunLover18

Whatever they do with the Fantastic Four I hope they don't bring back Krasinki because it didn't work for me. Maybe it was because he only did a day or two filming and didn't have much to dig into but it just felt bland and generic and very similar to the kind of leading man we've seen before. It was a nice piece of fan casting but I hope they go a different direction.

Fysh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073932#Comment_119073932

Tbh the F4 thing won't be too hard - Johnny Storm fits the snarky smartass template perfectly, even more so if they set him up as being friends with Holland's Peter Parker. How they play Reed is another matter, but perhaps they'll go for the Ultimate comics version where he's a precocious late teens/early-20s genius (rather than just being a blatant Not Tony Stark character).

(I still kind of wish we'd gotten a more standalone "Fantastic 4 in the Atomic Age" film set in the 50s, when the premise makes a bit more sense, but that ship has clearly sailed...)

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073222#Comment_119073222

I am as entitled to my opinion here as much as those who spend their time and hard earned money to go see everything Marvel put out only to come into nearly every single thread and post the same complaints after each one - there seems like there are many more that fall into this bucket but you chose to target me.

What is actually 'bloody hilarious' is that you talk about recontextualising to fit an agenda and then post that - did you even read my post you quoted?

Where in it did I say people were 'wrong to not enjoy this movie'? In truth I said the complete opposite - regarding some people losing interest I said 'It is perfectly natural and happens with every single long running material'.

I have no problem with people disliking Marvel properties due to valid criticism. People are entitled to differing opinions - for example, I don't like wizards/sorcery in general or things being quirky for the sake of it and as a result felt the music fight was one of the low points of the movie for me but others loved it and are saying it is one of their favourite parts.

You can see from each thread that I am not in absolute love with most of Phase 4 thus far (aside from WandaVision which I thought was fantastic and NWH that got close), and though I enjoyed most they each have their flaws. When people post these flaws (or the things I liked) that I agree with I don't see a need in typing 'I agree', as it doesnt add anything to the discussion. When I post it is to either respond to comments I disagree with, call out folks who are holding movies/shows to contradicting or unachievable standards, or in certain cases opinions that show no evidence of being tied to reality.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074145#Comment_119074145

I was skeptical regarding how much they are leaning into the multiverse for Phase 4 and some of the approaches with characters has me worried it'll become a complete mess.

At times they are having the same actors play the same character in the multiverse (Dr Strange) and then they are having different ones doing it (Parker, Loki). Then add to that where shows/movies seem to have different rules or drivers at play for the overall multiverse itself.

With that in mind I understand the concerns around Krasinki, he looks the part but not sure what else he brings, but at this stage if it saves things from becoming too convoluted then it might be best to stick with him and hope the storyline carries it.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Cant say that I was totally on board with Krasinski myself, but TBH, isn't Reed Richards a fairly boring character anyway - for me hes always been somewhat of an analog to the X-men's Cyclops, yeah, he's the leader, but He's drier than dust, and its the more interesting team members Like Ben Grimm or human torch that carry the stories.

johnny_ultimate

TBH while I'm not much of a fan of Krasinski as an actor, the big problem here is that his scenes were clearly superglued in during late production and reshoots. Olsen has claimed she hasn't even met him which is a pretty dire commentary on the state of modern blockbuster filmmaking when they share a pivotal scene together. At least his death scene was pleasingly brutal.

https://www.indiewire.com/2022/05/elizabeth-olsen-not-met-john-krasinski-doctor-strange-2-1234724791/

Some of the pandemic-era MCU films have really suffered from green-screen-itis. While some allowances should be made for the practicalities of pandemic filmmaking, I really think this and No Way Home have suffered significantly more than any other recent releases in terms of the compromises that were made and the digital bandages applied. Makes for some very cheap and unconvincing looking scenes.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073222#Comment_119073222

Are you hanging around the Marvel movie threads always being negative? Just curious.

Of course Foxtrol is going to tell you are wrong for not enjoying because he thinks you are wrong for not enjoying. Pretty stupid to expect otherwise.

Plus you are wrong for not enjoying them.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077010#Comment_119077010

Agree on the green screen part - the polish did look off compared to earlier movies.

Having said that, I think you're underselling the allowances by quite a bit. On top of the normal pandemic challenges other films faced, the intertwined nature of the MCU caused rewrites to adjust for the impact of COVID on timelines of other movies/shows.

As originally planned this movie was supposed to be out right after WandaVision ended a year ago. It was supposed to roll straight from the end of that show and be our first proper introduction into the multiverse, with Loki, What if, and then No Way Home coming in afterwards when the multiverse is more defined.

This very much limits the time for location shooting and actors schedules and then throw on top that No Way Home being based in one of the most impacted and cautious cities in the US and to me it is pretty impressive what they ended up with (though I again agree, far from perfect)

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119077856#Comment_119077856

I'm a fan of movies and Marvel happen to be churning them out at a steady rate at the moment.

Given the fact I have an omnipass I go to these things because I may as well.

If I'm negative in a Marvel movie thread it's because the movie deserves it. As the majority of these movies have deserved since the brilliant Infinity War.

Drumpot

The issue with doctor strange that some have is legitimate, particularly Wanda being the villian. If a person didn’t see Wanda vision her dream about Kids that drives her entire motive would not make sense.

At least in most of the earlier marvel movies you didn’t have to know anything about the tv episodes to understand important things. Hell most of the movies were something you could watch on its own and enjoy. I have seen most of the main marvel stuff (like WV, Loki) so don’t struggle to get it but it’s ridiculous that a person should have to watch an entire tv series to understand the motive of the main villian.

The movie itself was so so, didn’t expect much and it didn’t do anything Drastically good or bad , as usual these days with Marvel they get their porridge just right without any risks and they get to drag in a bunch of new characters they can play with in other movies.

I get the impression that Thor Ragnor and the movies before could be the peak movies of marvel. Since then there’s been more “meh” movies and a lot of the same kind of stuff then really good one off ones. One could argue Loki and some of the series have been better then the tentpole movies.

Part of the issue is the over saturation these days. In some ways we are spoiled for choice. I was watching the old x men movies recently and really enjoyed them but I do recall back in the day you’d be lucky to get 1-2 super hero and/or fantasy blockbusters in a year, now we can have double digits, not just marvel and DC and some top quality tv shows (The boys etc).

So Marvels ingredients for movies is a little stale. I mean even making GOTG work was genius to be fair but now we are just seeing characters with slightly different powers added. I will still goto most their stuff because it’s big screen material but the quality and freshness it had a while back is waning. I suppose there is only so many ways you can change things but I don’t think phase 4 movies has been great, more miss then hits for me.