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Looking for stats on % of unvaccinated people in ICU with underlying conditions

124

Answers

  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭ PureIsle
    Registered User


    Will you apply the same logic to adverse events from the vax?

    It is not a necessary element to live like air and water and food, and it is a choice that the jabbed took - a large percent to prevent social exclusion - so you want to hold everyone financially responsible for any health issues because of their choices?

    or is this just in one situation?

    In any case it is a despicable reaction to other peoples' choice not agreeing with yours regardless their reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭ bloopy
    Registered User


    This question just got a whole lot harder to track.

    The HSPC has discontinued the vaccinated/unvaccinated icu and death reports that people have been using to track weekly admissions and deaths for the last three months.

    It has been replaced with a new type report that makes it a lot more difficult to figure out.

    I will also note that the CSO has not updated their report that breaks down cases by vaccinated and unvaccinated. It should have been released this morning at 11am judging by how they've been doing it for the last year or so.

    Will have to keep an eye on it, maybe they are just a bit late with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭ Thats me
    Registered User


    >Will you apply the same logic to adverse events from the vax?

    No, it is in interests of community to have members vaccinated.

    >you want to hold everyone financially responsible for any health issues because of their choices?

    Cases of pandemics like this makes whole society vulnerable which requires higher degree of responsibility than average person could afford with no some kind of enforcement. Even doctors themselves, who are telling us we should isolate as much as possible, do not go to office with no real need - what you think they do? They are flying around the world just to have a meeting which could be done on-line, sharing omicron there and bringing it to their countries. If you cannot believe, here is a proof: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/israeli-doctor-believes-he-caught-omicron-variant-of-covid-in-london

    >or is this just in one situation?

    Currently in this one situation. But generally speaking tax paid HS does not work anyway. For the tax money they have grown enormously large bureaucratic structure which has the only purpose - prevent people from accessing their doctors. Just because doctor's salary is too big to let them work. Per each doctor they have dozens of employees who are busy with anything except treating patients, so probably a bit of healthy capitalism would help this system to improve when people will start voiting by their money for more adequate service. But this is future, now we need to stop C19 and this measure aiming only this at the moment.

    >In any case it is a despicable reaction to other peoples' choice not agreeing with yours regardless their reasons.

    It is not reaction to anybody's choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,667 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen
    Registered User


    Per each doctor they have dozens of employees who are busy with anything except treating patients

    This is not true. You can read the latest workforce breakdown here:

    so probably a bit of healthy capitalism would help this system to improve

    Probably not. The US has more health service bureaucracy than we do.

    In my own experience of public and private health services the Ireland, private is not less bureaucratic. When I attended a clinic in the Beacon there was a row of reception staff, each apparently dealing with the needs of one private consultant. Those needs included gouging me for additional fees not met by my extraordinarily expensive private health insurance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭ Thats me
    Registered User



    This is not true. You can read the latest workforce breakdown here:


    This is not true. You can read the latest workforce breakdown here:

    Hmm... you're right, ratio is significantly lower:

    • Consultants 3583
    • Management & Administrative 21322
    • Health & Social Care Professionals 18723 (also conistiting of managers and clerical)

    ( 18723 + 21322 ) / 3583 = 11.18


    private is not less bureaucratic. When I attended a clinic in the Beacon

    Sorry for rhetorical question, what managed you to attend that clinic instead of using tax pre-paid services? Only existence of such clinics on its own is sign that something wrong with the system paid from the tax, isn't it?



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  • Subscribers Posts: 37,139 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat
    Subscriber


    Theres loads wrong with the public heath system... But the existence of a private health system is not an indication of this.

    We don't have a pure public only health system in Ireland. We have a public / private mix where those who can afford to pay for private health care do, and reap the benefits of not being a drain on the public funded system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭ marilynrr
    Registered User


    We don't know what the real numbers are.

    It's almost impossible for many people to get a test at the moment. The slots are getting booked up instantly! There's an outbreak in my childs school at the moment and the people who have managed to get tests are the ones refreshing the page constantly over a few days in the hope something will come up.

    There was a thread on here a few days back where people can't get GP appointments because the GP's phones are getting clogged up with people trying to get covid tests!

    I bet the real numbers are absolutely sky high!



  • Registered Users Posts: 23 Mr shmar


    I’m not going to say that you are correct or incorrect about “knowing what the real numbers are”, but if it is the case that they are not-known, then the entire justification that the government has used for most of it’s covid based legislation over the past 12+ months would surely be put into question, if not completely crippled.

    They point to “the numbers” as a basis for a lot of things that have been done or else promote a certain way for something to be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭ paul71
    Registered User


    Since the vaccine is not important to the unvaccinated they must therefore believe that the consequences are unimportant. I am all for free will, let them go unvaccinated, but let them then go without a ICU bed which is required for a road traffic incident, heart attack or other medical emergency.

    We will of course hear the piteous cries of discrimination, but we do after all deny liver transplants to unrepentant alcoholics, where is the difference here?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭ bloopy
    Registered User


    According to today's Examiner, 54% of admissions to icu between July and November we're unvaccinated. 92% had underlying conditions.

    Seems to be the closest to an answer so far (unless I have picked it up wrong).




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius
    Registered User


    Don't let the word 'triage' stop you from stewing with unnecessary rage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭ Markus Antonius
    Registered User


    The vaccine registration for the 30-40 age bracket only started in July. You also need to factor in the low ICU admission figures up to September during which it was mainly younger people catching covid.

    Until they start being transparent with the figures, there's not much point in reading too much into anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,424 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze
    Registered User


    Key Findings

    • Just under 60% of the 0-24 age group who contracted COVID-19 between July and November and were admitted to hospital were not vaccinated, while the equivalent figure for the 25-44 age category stood at almost 50%
    • The median age of those who contracted COVID-19 and were admitted to hospital between July and November that reported being un-vaccinated was 38 years, compared with a median age of 66 years for those who said they were vaccinated
    • More than half (54%) of those admitted to ICUs between July and November reported they were unvaccinated and of those who said they were vaccinated, more than nine in 10 (92%) had an underlying health condition
    • Of those admitted to ICU who contracted COVID-19 between July and November and were not born in Ireland, 84% reported being unvaccinated
    • Since July hospitalisations amongst those who reported as vaccinated have been rising at a higher rate than those who reported as un-vaccinated
    • The average hospitalisation rate has been less than 30 people per 1,000 confirmed cases since April and this decrease is seen in all age groups while the average ICU admission rate has been less than five people per 1,000 confirmed cases since April
    • In 90% of Local Electoral Areas vaccination uptake rate among the over 12s is greater than 83.7% of the population
    • Among employees the largest increase in vaccine uptake rate since 09 September (3%) is in employees of the EU 15-27 grouping




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,667 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen
    Registered User


    Why has the CSO shifted focus from the most recent two months, all the way back to July?

    Who gives a **** about July?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭ paul71
    Registered User


    I do not feel rage, simply disinterest in the stupidity of people who refuse to care for their own health and yet expect our health services to drop other services to cater to their stupidity.


    Triage, so be it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    Do we apply that to all preventable illnesses or just CV-19?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭ patnor1011
    Registered User


    Because if they went with last month or two it would shatter their "unvaccinated & ICU beds" narrative.

    Yet, do not have any hopes for this to change. They can start offering monthly figures which will be the same probably even worse simply because they will start counting "unboostered" as "unvaccinated".

    Cue in Omicron and hints of pharma CEO how we will need new vaccine for it and you see how we all are in this together and forever ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭ paul71
    Registered User


    What other preventable illnesses are there out there that are currently taking up 100% of ICU beds in some regional hospitals. 1 week ago all ICU beds in Drogheda were taken by Covid patients. Not 1 of those people were vaccinated. If there is a heart attack or car accident in Drogheda you will die because of selfish idiots who refuse to vaccinate.


    So in answer to your question, yes refuse ICU beds to Covid non vaxxers, let the cancer patients, RTI victims, heart attack victims have them and people who care for their health and the health of their fellow citizens.


    Surely the non-vaxxers cannot argue with this? After all the position they have taken is that the vaccine is more dangerous than the consequences. If the consequences of not taking a vaccine are not severe than it must follow that they believe they won't require an ICU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,561 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78
    Banned




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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,920 ✭✭✭✭ ted1
    Registered User


    but the vaccinated would be of similar age, so age is irrelevant, also vaccinated would have underlying health issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,920 ✭✭✭✭ ted1
    Registered User


    the answer is very easy, a vaccinated person can still catch Covid, however it is a much milder infection and as a result is less transmissible.

    Its like someone who had 1 glass of wine driving a car V someone who has necked the full bottle driving a car



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,920 ✭✭✭✭ ted1
    Registered User


    should they do?


    the health system is providing a vaccine so as to reduce the stress, Should people not choose to not avail of it, why should the health system pick up their tab.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭ Danno
    Moderator


    Because they paid their taxes. We either aim to have universal healthcare or we dont.

    Put the shoe on the other foot - if John Doe pays VHI the guts of €2,000 per annum and decides not to avail of the vaccine but unfortunately ends up requiring medical care - should the VHI say no to him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,920 ✭✭✭✭ ted1
    Registered User


    Absolutely if its Covid related he should be told where to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,667 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen
    Registered User


    It's nothing to do with paying taxes. I pay more taxes than most people, should I get to jump the queue at the ED? No. The public health service treats people according to presented need, moderated by cost constraints.

    I don't know why this argument still keeps coming up. Nobody who works in the health service is advocating turning away or de-prioritizing care for the unvaccinated. It's either some weird false flag effort by antivaxxers or the brain farts of people who should think harder before typing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,324 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool
    Registered User


    I think it's part of the "let everyone else die, especially if they have lived their natural life or obese" thing that some posters have going on and scream and shout when a mirror is shone upon them. It is weird.

    We don't deny anyone treatment and the country is working it's hardest to keep it that way, which unfortunately means restrictions to try and limit infections.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭ Danno
    Moderator


    But there are plenty of folk scattered throughout this thread advocating for people to be denied healthcare if they present for Covid19 treatment without a vaccine cert - so these types do exist.

    Regarding your queue skipping scenario - that is a problem with our two tier system and this needs to be eradicated. But our government doesn't have the balls to reform healthcare from the ground up. It's a bargepole any party won't touch cause the pain of reform would cost votes. It's much easier to shovel money into it and hope the problems stay under the carpet.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    First off, you don't know the reason why they weren't vaccinated. You also don't know if they were there with/from/because of Covid. The reality is that CV-19 overwhelmingly impacts the elderly. That demographic hasn't changed irrespective of "variants". So are we now saying that we have all these un-vaxxed 85 year olds in ICU because they refuse to take a vaccine? The reality is that they're probably too old and infirm to receive a vaccine.

    As for this narrative around hospital beds, Irish hospitals have been overwhelmed every winter of my adult life - Flu, winter vomiting bug etc. In fact, hospitals were busier in winter of 2018 than they were last year (2020) or this year (2021) so this idea of hospitals being "on the brink of collapse" is just a rebranding of "very busy". In August we were told of the "worst hospital overcrowding since the beginning of the Pandemic" with 381 patients on trolleys yet in 2018 there were 668 patients waiting on trolleys or in wards! Furthermore, in January of this year (2021) when Ireland was bounced into a Level 5 lockdown for 6 months there was a decrease of 60 - 70% trolley waiters compared to the same period in 2020. So that means that when there was all this panic last January hospitals being "on the brink of collapse" and RTE were outside hospitals talking to nurses about how bad things were, hospitals were less overcrowded than they were in previous years!

    Should we now refuse ICU beds and restrict access to Gyms, pubs and restaurants to people who refuse to get the flu jab or every other vaccine or is it just people who refuse the CV-19 vaccine? What next, should we refuse ICU beds to smokers and obese people and then move up to people who don't exercise. What about people who are in ICU with drug or alcohol related illnesses?

    Interesting how the conversation around CV-19 no longer mentions deaths but now the narrative has moved onto ICU beds. Are we are now expected to forever protect the HSE rather than it protect us as it’s funded to do?





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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,667 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen
    Registered User


    But there are plenty of folk scattered throughout this thread advocating for people to be denied healthcare if they present for Covid19 treatment without a vaccine cert - so these types do exist.

    Sure, lots of people have dumb opinions about things they haven't thought through properly. It's not worth getting worked up over.



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