Why do teachers get automatic pay rises based of years of service?

spindex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799006#Comment_117799006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799006#Comment_117799006

"€70,000 per annum after only a few years"

Could you clarify what only a few years is please ?

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117799839#Comment_117799839

Up to the individual, like the private sector.

Jeremy Sproket

The hypocrisy is gas as well.

If a student does poorly, they are told that it's their own fault and not to blame their laziness on the teacher, but if they do well, suddenly the teacher is wonderful and the good grades are attributed to them.

Jeremy Sproket

During the years when 0.6% (if I'm not mistaken) was taken from private pension funds per year, why wasn't teachers' annuities reduced by a similar amount that the private pensions would be by virtue of the lost funds?

Jeremy Sproket

I have a feeling that in coming years or decades, the state pension will be means tested.

Anyone who has assets or a private pension will be told to scram.

I bet my next salary that the PRSI aspect of teachers' pensions will remain untouched though.

123Dublin456

What I find confusing about this post is that you don't have a high enough levels of qualification to be a teacher, yet you think that they are overpaid even though you're actually making the same as them? Is that correct? Surely they should be making more than someone who has a lower level of qualification. The other issue is this , after speaking to a number of people in the private sector recently with less experience in their area then a teacher at 50000, they are making approximately 30 to 40 thousand more. Now this of course isn't the norm for every private sector job, but why should a teacher not be able to make more than the 70000, if people who are working just a few years seem to be managing this in the private sector? To be honest, I think public sector will always have appeals for security and pensions, but with this new wave of remote work I would not be surprised if there is a huge shortage of teachers ( and nurses, garda etc) in approximately 5 years or less. To me, I find it really ironic that someone less qualified than a teacher, earning the same, thinks they are overpaid.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803289#Comment_117803289

Considering neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates graduated, it’s a bit stupid to limit remuneration to academic qualifications. Lots of people have PhD’s and are unemployed deadbeats, just as lots of people who left school at 16 are millionaires. Those people who make more than teachers are subject to market forces and no doubt their performance is reviewed, if they don’t perform well, out ta ****.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803289#Comment_117803289

I am studying to leave teaching at the moment. This is my tenth year in my school and I'm sick of it and have no interest in another school. I want a job without constant conflict and nonsense, and I want to work from home doing a normal job in the future. I'm teaching online these days and it's hell. And I have it easy teaching in Asia compared to Ireland.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804486#Comment_117804486

Are you and actual teacher of children or TEFL? In either case I believe you might be OT here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804496#Comment_117804496

High school tefl. OT?

Edit: Off topic. I dunno. The guy I replied to mentioned the WFH thing and that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's made me start studying again.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804521#Comment_117804521

Have you ever taught in Ireland or been employed by the Department of Education? The topic is pretty PS specific.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805003#Comment_117805003

No, I haven't. Same as most of the thread.

The small point I was responding to was regarding WFH and I don't need to have taught in Ireland specifically to have an opinion about it. It's not like there aren't teachers in Ireland thinking the same. I have fully-qualified Irish friends here who are feeling antsy having had a taste of WFH but who don't enjoy the teaching aspect of online.

Take away pay raises and other jobs that allow you to work from home beyond Covid-19 become very appealing.

We're allowed to meander a bit from the thread topic. Have a go at the other poster for bringing up WFH why don't you.

Lillyfae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805268#Comment_117805268

Ya not really, you're conflating what you do with getting automatic pay rises based on years of service. Do you get an automatic rise or would it be dependent on your performance? How is it measured?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805676#Comment_117805676

We're missing each others' points here. I'm talking about incentives and disincentives to be a teacher and you're focusing on me for some reason. I just gave my own story as an anecdote of teachers wanting to change careers because of the potential to WFH in a job that isn't in front of a camera all day.

Good luck.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795311#Comment_117795311

So say if the department changed it to a months summer holidays. That be fine.

The protesting would be immense

Dave0301

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117805938#Comment_117805938

You'd want to have some compelling reasons to tack on another month of teaching time, not to mention that they would need to be paid for it.

I agree though that holidays are a huge benefit for teachers and they would not want them changed.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803270#Comment_117803270

A occupational DC would not have choice.

The employee and employer would be obliged to contribute.

Some of the public pension schemes in the UK are DC, and the contribution rates are like 20% employer, and up to 12% employee.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803280#Comment_117803280

Please note that there are two State Pensions:

(1) contributory, based on PRSI

(2) non-contributory, which is means-tested.

I have seen loads of people say that in years to come the SP will be means-tested.

What do you mean exactly?

Do you mean that the PRSI-based SP will be abolished?

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807178#Comment_117807178

Yes, those who made PRSI contributions for years on end will be told to just like it or lump it and won't be given a stitch if they have significant assets or a private pension already.

You can rest assured that the PRSI aspect of teachers' pensions will be untouched though.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117806214#Comment_117806214

Leave the kids with their 3 months of holidays, teachers should have to do admin work in any governmental department and get 2 weeks off in the summer like the rest of uss.

BTW, their salary is more than generous.

New teachers should be on a new contract, summer work (for the same salary of incumbent teachers), 4 weeks annual leave plus public holidays (like the rest of us), a no strike rule (like the army have), regular performance reviews.

Let the little petals know what work is.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807825#Comment_117807825

There's a lot of truth in the various points you raise, but good luck with changing the cosy employment environment that teachers have built up over the decades.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807897#Comment_117807897

Teaching should be one aspect of their job. They are, for the most part, lazy and overpaid.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807903#Comment_117807903

So you have experienced how they teach, "for the most part"?

Do you not find it tiring carrying that chip around on your shoulder all of the time? (If boards still had the rolleyes emoji, I'd add it here!)

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807817#Comment_117807817

This will not happen, as it is politically impossible.

The SPC may be made less generous over time, yes.

But nobody who has paid 40 years PRSI will be refused an SPC.

By the way, if the SPC is abolished as you describe, why would it be kept for one type of public servant (teachers), and not for all other public servants?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807903#Comment_117807903

Teach thirty 15 year olds and come back to me after that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117794735#Comment_117794735

I'm pleased to hear you've no intention of being a teacher. You're not qualified.

2ndcoming

The constant recurrence of this topic is weirdly Irish. I can't think of anywhere else where teachers are constantly belittled and subjected to this sh1t. I am not a teacher by the way, I left school at 16 and got an apprenticeship. Had good ones and more bad ones but this argument is beyond idiotic. None of your failures are their fault lads...

No. Public. Service. Would. Exist. If. It. Was. Run. Like. A. Private. Business.

Read it, repeat it, learn it off like your six times tables...

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807903#Comment_117807903

What happened to you, to turn you into you? 😕

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809105#Comment_117809105

Ahh yes.

Personal attacks.

When you're losing an argument, just hurl abuse. That always works.

LittleBrick

Can we please stop feeding the troll? Over 6 pages it is well evidenced that they are refusing to acknowledge any logical reasoning or arguments and have now resorted to calling us teachers "lazy" and "overpaid".

To everyone else on this post, I want to speak from my viewpoint as a primary teacher. Despite liking the job for the most part, I am currently trying to leave the profession in order to get better pay (yes, better! The audacity of me!) and hopefully get a chance to move home. I had to move to Dublin to get a job and, despite trying to move home every summer for the last number of years, I cannot even get an interview for a maternity leave. I have worked in a number of schools in the last few years, and while I know amazing teachers, I also know some teachers who are seen as not so amazing. I can honestly say that none of these teachers chose teaching for the pay or benefits (holidays). Whether they be seen as the "strict" ones, the "fun" ones, the "boring" ones, the "STEM" ones, the "bookish" ones, the "arty" ones, the "musical" ones, or anything else, they have all loved working with children. While they had vastly different approaches, teaching styles, displays, and preferred methodologies, at the root of their career choice and work was a desire to work with and help children. Disagreeing with their approach does not mean that they are "bad", it means they are observing the situation differently. In the classroom context, this is a good thing. Children also all think differently, and being exposed to different teachers equips them not only for real world scenarios, but also means different children will "click" with different teachers and personalities.