Proposed New suckler Scheme

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052894#Comment_118052894

If you look back over my posting on this issue I have always qualified my points against too high Suckler support. In places along the west Coast there is little choice but either Suckler cows or sheep at present. This is mainly no research has been carried out on what farm operations are viable on poorer type land.

However any support should not encourage those on muddling to better type land to go into, expand or dare I say it stay in suckler's.

Capping numbers by a quota may seem harsh but it prevents an explosion in supply. Lads can look for extra money off environmental schemes. As well CRISS Greening and convergence will also help smaller farm units on middling type land. Top up on Criss is 44/ HA on first 30 HA. Convergence to 0.85 of the national average will see minimum payment hit 210/ HA. Capping will also start to limits lads ambition.

I had not seen the dairy calf measure that Grueller mentioned. However it is still a very limited fund. But it would allow 500k dairy Criss calves to be weighted at 40/ calf. There is 1.6 million dairy cows. Take away 300k for replacement heifers and 200 k for export it means it's only available to less than 50% if these calves. Having said that it would give a 1600 euro payment to the lad with 40 calves if it went that far.

Finally the government did not pick any stupid options so far as I can see. It avoided an early slaughter bonus which would have transferred funds to meat processor's and it kept the young farmer funding at a minimum rate which is often only a larger farmer/dairy operations slush fund

Anto_Meath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052290#Comment_118052290

Skidoo would be to fancy for my pocket.. would probably be to pampered as well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053021#Comment_118053021

Did it even help when they did do research here, the former Teagasc farm outside Leenane had something like 2 km length of silage ground along the Erriff, hardly typical. The suckler research is being done back on good land in Athenry.

It's the research equivalent of "soft talk".

Easten

I think the devil will be in the detail for this new scheme. With so much pressure from climate change and the green camp I wouldn't be surprised if they looked for culling of Cows 3 star cows or less

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053021#Comment_118053021

Traditionally Bass, based on AIM figures, 30% of dairy calves are replacement heifers. On 1.6 million cows that is 480,000 replacement heifers.

That leaves, 1.12 million calves. Remove 5% mortality of that and it is roughly 1.07 million calves. Now remove the 200,000 exported (for how many more years is anyone's guess) and we have 870,000 calves eligible for the scheme. Conservative estimates would say that figure would be down to 750,000 with lads not interested in taking part.

Now divide the €25m by the 750,000 and it leaves €33.33 per calf. Its not going to make a lad up to be fair. At 40 calves it is €1,333 of a payment.

If they cap the participation at 50 calves say it may leave a few bob more slushing about to be divided among lads as I know a few farmers around here rearing up to 200 of them at a time.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053281#Comment_118053281

There’s a video of them on thatsfarming.com, a serious herd of cows.

Anto_Meath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053686#Comment_118053686

Ye they are super stock, might stick my head in for a look tomorrow when I am passing.. would love to have a herd of that quality.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053493#Comment_118053493

Just see on agriland, €20 per calf. Not worth 2 squarts of goat's p1ss.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118055513#Comment_118055513

Ya I am after seeing that as well. It really show the lack of forward thinking. It one way if putting money in farmers pockets, and getting farmers to look at weight gain and getting animals to a decent weanling and store weight. When you consider that 52 million/ annum is targeted on sucklers where the average cow produced 0.8 calves/ year and that is only accross there productive life you have to question the thinking

Yet on the other side we have dairy Criss beef and especially AA breed cattle where the demand at present is on an exponential curve. We should be funding and trying to push more development funds in this direction

Anto_Meath

Them AAx dairy calves are a mixed bag.. seen a batch of 18 month old last night 330kgs very Jex got it hard to make €600 last Monday.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118055716#Comment_118055716

If they are only 330 kgs now they will struggle to kill 300 kgs this time next year. They will probably average sub 1300 euro. Having said that they will probably leave more to a lad finishing them than most AA or HE cattle going through the mart at present. Handy 400 kg AA making 850-900 euro maybe even a tad more. I cannot see the margin on them

Anto_Meath

Couldn't see a margin in them at all. Yes some of the prices been paid at the minute for these type of cattle doesn't add up. Lad over the road always bought U grade Ch cattle around 600 kgs. He is now buy AAs & He at this weight and giving up to €2.40 /kg it will be interesting to see how he goes next year.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053493#Comment_118053493

A €33 subsidy on calves would to the dairy farmer and rise prices by €50/calf, have seen it many times over the years

tanko

I hear there’s some details out about the new BDGP scheme which runs from 2023 to 2027.

The reference year hasn’t been set yet to decide the new reference number. Number of 4/5 star animals has to be 50% in year 1, 65% in year 3 and 75% in year 5.

in years 1 and 2 80% of calves must be off a 4/5 star bull on terminal or maternal index, 85% in years 3 and 4 and 90% in year 5.

All calves born on farm have to be genotyped and this number must be 70% of the reference number.

Cows and calves must be weighed before weaning and calf must be at least 3 months old at weighing.

Joining Bord Bia is compulsory.

Theres a training course in years 1 and 2. The consultant gets €100 per farmer per year for this, no payment for the farmer.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137944#Comment_118137944

seems a bit more tricky for an extra €1k.

possibly a lot of farmers might skip this one.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138029#Comment_118138029

It’s €150/cow for the first 10 cows and €120/cow after that. It’s hard to know how popular it’ll be. I’d say having to sign up for five years and having to join Bord Bia will put a lot off it.

dh1985

Think I will be bowing out of the bdgp if that's the rules. Think both the further 5 year lock in and the bord bia requirement would put me off. Don't like the 4 and 5 star requirements increase either as I don't think they have made any significant advancements from genotyping and some of my best performing cows are the lower rated ones and vice versa. Even though I would meet the star requirements now too much uncertainty on how the compute the star rating would leave me skeptical.

Lime Tree Farm

Has bvd been eliminated yet, it would be ideal swooping over to genotyping calves instead of taking bvd tissue tagging.

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138123#Comment_118138123

Yeah the joining of board BIA is annoying me, I don't factory anything so not sure where the benefit is for me. The rest I wouldn't have as much issue with as nearly all my sucklers are 4 or 5 star and I use AI anyway. I like the idea of all calves being genotyped as this should get rid of wrong sires & lads that still don't bother filling it in.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140068#Comment_118140068

First off Board Bia is pretty straight forward if you are a suckker farmer. The only real thing you want to watch is withdrawal dates on cull cows. That and ICBF are mandatory for most schemes now.

If a grass fed scheme comes in you will probably have to join BB anyway as it will be solar to AA grass fed status cattle will be making a premium over other stock

Easten

Does joining BB involve having farmyard up to a certain standard too? If this is the case then a lot of the smaller poorer farmers will be out of luck as they didn't have the funds to be investing in facilities.

No doubt the reference will be after the Beam scheme so anyone that was in that will now have a smaller number

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140489#Comment_118140489

No the only real important thing with BB is that your medicine records and herd book are in order.

After that feed records and a few other bits a d pieces. They send you out a records books it fairly easy to keep up to date.

It looks at your housing, crush and other facilities but no e if these are a fail. It's not about perfection you only have to pass.

First audit is nearly an automatic pass just have medicine records and feed dockets

893bet

Bb doesn’t drive you to do too much more than the minimum that would be required for a department inspection.

I think it’s great as it ensures to keep on top of the stuff your are required to collect.

ABitofsense

For the reference year, will the number be determined based on opening stock, cows calved or closing stock of that year? Or some other way?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141477#Comment_118141477

I would imagine on number of cows calves that calves were registered to.

Hard Knocks

The Star requirement is what’s putting me off

I was hoping these stars would go away

Micey.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137944#Comment_118137944

Tanko Any harm asking where u got that information.

€100 for consultant not farmer doesn’t seem right.Never needed consultant to enter previous scheme.

Not be a rush to enter with them terms

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142862#Comment_118142862

Article on online Irish Farmers Journal. The €100 x 2 years is for a livestock handling course apparently.

dh1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143001#Comment_118143001

More jobs for the boys I would think

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142477#Comment_118142477

The Eurostar’s are here to stay, overall it’s a flawed system but once the beef breed societies all accepted it that was that.

A big problem is that Genomics hasn’t done what we were told it would do.