Can you afford a home?

basill

Padre_Pio wrote: »

People believe that property is an asset that MUST appreciate over time.

That only works when you have enough supply and enough demand to keep the cycle going.

Both supply and demand are completely out of whack the last 5 years.

Its worse than that. People don't even comprehend basic financial principles. Few will take into account the interest paid on the mortgage when calculating their gain in value. Fewer still will work out what they could have earnt if they had taken their savings and invested it elsewhere. And no one is ever going to work out what they would have spent renting versus home owning eg: LPT, repairs and maintenance, insurances etc etc.

Feisar

Fils wrote: »

Why shouldn’t a single person be able to buy a home?

Because they are being outbid by the dual income buyers.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I'm looking for a house on a half acre or more and they're hard to come by in my price range.

Around Dublin 4?

Fils

Feisar wrote: »

Because they are being outbid by the dual income buyers.

Your reply to my post is out of context to the poster I was replying to.

Padre_Pio

Furze99 wrote: »

We own a home which we purchased back in the 1990s.

30 years ago. We are as close to 1990 as people in 1990 were to 1960.

The environment is completely different now.
Had a look on Daft.ie.
80% of houses for sale in the entire country are priced between 150k and 600k.

10% are below 150k are mostly uninhabitable (and plenty above 150k are uninhabitable)
10% are between 600k and 5 million.

Every other house, nearly 1000 in all, regardless of size, type, features, maintenance and location is stuck between that 150k and 600k. An x4 multiplier.

There's no price spread. The entry cost is way too high. Also,the potential profit in buying a shack and renovating is already prices into the shack, leaving zero incentive.

The Irish property market has been broken for near 20 years. The moment people were told that if you buy a house, then it will appreciate and become your retirement fund.

PhilOssophy

I can thankfully, but we absolutely saved our b*****x off for nearly 5 years to do it.

dotsman

basill wrote: »

And no one is ever going to work out what they would have spent renting versus home owning eg: LPT, repairs and maintenance, insurances etc etc.

I did. I bought right at the peak of the last boom. And have saved/made a fortune compared to if I had been renting the last 13 years. And the large sums of money I have saved over those 13 years has grown nicely in my investment portfolio.

Oh, and as well as the huge financial benefit of owning my own home, I also have the benefit that it is my home. I decide what I want to do with it. It is decorated to how I like it. I have also enjoyed the last 13 years knowing where I would be living in a year's time. I absolutely love the fact that the cost of owning is pretty steady, and has actually gone down over the last 13 years and not having to live in fear of another rent hike, or having to move out and try and find a less suitable place for 20% more than what I was paying the previous year. Likewise, when I move out, it will be on my timetable and not somebody else's.

Looking at a wide circle of friends (of which maybe a third bought property before the crash), there is not a single person who bought who regrets it, nor any that didn't buy who didn't end up struggling to get buy a home many years later.

Relax brah

Can I afford a home? Yes.

Can I afford the home I want? No.

Feisar

Fils wrote: »

Your reply to my post is out of context to the poster I was replying to.

I see what you mean after rereading. It depends on how you read the previous post. If the first post is read in terms of a shift in ideology then yes I was out of context.
It’s purely that the economics have shifted. Nothing stopping a single person buying if they have the lolly.

Sunny Disposition

I am a bit concerned, how can the market not collapse if most people can’t buy? In an era of hybrid/remote working it seems very precarious to me. I’d recommend waiting instead of buying now, especially in cities.

Padre_Pio

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I am a bit concerned, how can the market not collapse if most people can’t buy? In an era of hybrid/remote working it seems very precarious to me. I’d recommend waiting instead of buying now, especially in cities.

Unfortunately people have been predicting a collapse for the past 5 years. The opposite has happened.

People were still buying when viewings were banned and bumping up prices like mad. Irish people are very strange when it comes to property.

jimmycrackcorm

Fils wrote: »

Why shouldn’t a single person be able to buy a home?

Why should they be able to? A single person competing against dual-income buyers isn't going to go so far.

Well, they actually can if they have a whopping deposit and earn a significant income. Otherwise, you might do well to explain how we can build houses at such a low cost for average income single people to buy.

Canyon86

I m not In a city either and saved like crazy to buy before Christmas,

mcmoustache

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I am a bit concerned, how can the market not collapse if most people can’t buy? In an era of hybrid/remote working it seems very precarious to me. I’d recommend waiting instead of buying now, especially in cities.

Companies are buying property to be rented out to the masses. With enough of that happening it should keep prices out of reach for most and we can go back to the utopian days of absentee landlords and a populace forced to rent from them.

Padre_Pio

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why should they be able to? A single person competing against dual-income buyers isn't going to go so far.

Well, they actually can if they have a whopping deposit and earn a significant income. Otherwise, you might do well to explain how we can build houses at such a low cost for average income single people to buy.

Why should people compete to buy a place to live?
Since when does the build cost of a house have anything to do with the sale price?

bilbot79

Part of the answer is a 1% property tax but that would go down as well as water charges

L1011

I bought a wreck in 2012 on my own and have put about 35k in to it. Windows, doors, boiler, attic insulation, etc.

As a couple now we could still afford much the same house (in the refurbed condition) now but income wise the combined income in the house is over 2.5x what it was in 2012 for just me - and we can't really afford much fancier!

Tony EH

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Unfortunately people have been predicting a collapse for the past 5 years. The opposite has happened.

People were still buying when viewings were banned and bumping up prices like mad. Irish people are very strange when it comes to property.

This is a very recent thing and one that was imported from Thatcherism in the UK.

Before the last 20 odd years, you either rented from the state, or a private landlord (which was always designed to be a temp thing in your 20's) or you bought a house.

It was simple enough and it worked. Or at least, it worked better than things are "working" today.

Nowadays you have employed couples that cannot even hope to buy something, despite being relatively affluent, especially in comparison to the couples of yesteryear. That's simply a crazy situation and one that has led to desperate people being "very strange when it comes to property", because in our ridiculous country renting privately is just not an option for long term living.

People today don't have the choice of renting a house from the state, so they're at the mercy of private land lords, the majority of whom are the worst type of people. But they're the people that the government have hocked responsibility off onto for the housing crisis that has been a significant factor of both Fianna Fail's and Fine Gael's stewardship of the country.

Frankly, I think a lot of people would welcome a crash, followed by the chance to really change how we deal with housing this time around. Because the last time we learned bugger all.

The Mighty Quinn

Bought in 2017. It cost 180K. The maximum we could possibly spend at the time.

4 years later and the house is "worth" about 230K based on identical neighbouring properties that have sold within the last 12 months, sounds great except any other house we'd be interested in buying that would have been 230K is now 270-300K, so the value of our house going up doesn't really mean a thing when we're still living here, we still pay the bank the same amount each month.

The same houses sold for 125-130K in 2012-2014, some lucky people here bought at that time.

Government buildings

We are in a crisis.
Let people build in their own back gardens.
Eliminate all the regulations that have been brought in in the last 15 years, like BER ratings, and let people build what they can afford.
Let people live in caravans mobile homes etc so they can gather up some money to build something for themselves.

The Mighty Quinn

Government buildings wrote: »

Eliminate all the regulations that have been brought in in the last 15 years, like BER ratings, and let people build what they can afford.

Terrible, awful idea. You'd have people building fire hazard death traps, or people building freezing crap buildings to rent to desperate people.

Tony EH

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

Terrible, awful idea. You'd have people building fire hazard death traps, or people building freezing crap buildings to rent to desperate people.

As we saw in Florida recently deregulation is nothing to be touting as any kind of "solution".

pgj2015

Tony EH wrote: »

This is a very recent thing and one that was imported from Thatcherism in the UK.

Before the last 20 odd years, you either rented from the state, or a private landlord (which was always designed to be a temp thing in your 20's) or you bought a house.

It was simple enough and it worked. Or at least, it worked better than things are "working" today.

Nowadays you have employed couples that cannot even hope to buy something, despite being relatively affluent, especially in comparison to the couples of yesteryear. That's simply a crazy situation and one that has led to desperate people being "very strange when it comes to property", because in our ridiculous country renting privately is just not an option for long term living.

People today don't have the choice of renting a house from the state, so they're at the mercy of private land lords, the majority of whom are the worst type of people. But they're the people that the government have hocked responsibility off onto for the housing crisis that has been a significant factor of both Fianna Fail's and Fine Gael's stewardship of the country.

Frankly, I think a lot of people would welcome a crash, followed by the chance to really change how we deal with housing this time around. Because the last time we learned bugger all.

I have to agree. most landlords are greedy misers who wont even fix your shower if it breaks but still expect you to pay your rent and suck it up.

antimatterx

Single, 25 and working on tech. I can't buy a house but I'll be able to buy an apartment in January. It's a start.

More people could afford if they would go without a new car and three holidays every year

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

More people could afford if they would go without a new car and three holidays every year

This is bollocks.

The Mighty Quinn

Just thinking, haven't heard the term "accidental landlord" in a long time.
Whoops I bought a house I need to rent out now, I'm a landlord!

Surely anybody who had been in this situation is well out of it now?

TP_CM

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

Bought in 2017. It cost 180K. The maximum we could possibly spend at the time.

4 years later and the house is "worth" about 230K based on identical neighbouring properties that have sold within the last 12 months, sounds great except any other house we'd be interested in buying that would have been 230K is now 270-300K, so the value of our house going up doesn't really mean a thing when we're still living here, we still pay the bank the same amount each month.

The same houses sold for 125-130K in 2012-2014, some lucky people here bought at that time.

You've paid about 30k off the mortgage though right? So from that perspective it's good. Don't forget to shop around for better rates now that you loan to value ratio has changed.

mcmoustache

Tony EH wrote: »

This is bollocks.

It's technically correct. It's no different than saying "if people had more money they could afford more stuff.".

pgj2015

I can afford one but im very picky. I want a detached in a nice area, private site with a nice garden and it has to look good.