Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459791#Comment_118459791

I love how folks can tell everything about everyone and their motivations from a brief encounter on the street.

I would suggest its say more about the person making the observation

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459790#Comment_118459790

Your reasons for thinking masks, even cloth coverings are ineffectual are not true and not based on the science of how virus spread.

Would transmission be lower if we all wore high grade respirators instead? Yes.

Is that needed or practical when a cloth covering will get about 80% of the same effect if worn correctly? No, it's not.

Is it a problem that some people wear them under their noses or use them wrong? Yes, but probably not enough for the policy needing to be changed.

But it's weird, people act all sorts of reasonable, but when you get down to the real world usage of these things and why they exist, their rationality completely disappears and they get outraged if there isn't a binary answer to the problem. Managing the pandemic has all been about degrees of restrictions and rules to reduce social contacts, would it work better if we wore masks all the time, sure, but then restaurants can't open, does wearing a mask help much if worn when going between tables but not at tables? Probably a little bit but not a lot, it will depend on levels of ventilation, distance to others and time spent around others. As they are a low impact measure, it probably doesn't matter a whole lot, we know they work and reduce transmission.

"I want no restrictions, but if restrictions exist they need to be 100% or nothing" just isn't practical unless you plan on locking people in their homes.

BuildTheWall

Step 1: Make wildly inaccurate, fatalistic modelling.

Step 2: Introduce pointless restrictions.

Step 3: When bad modelling doesn’t come to pass, say stupid restrictions worked.

Step 4: Rinse and repeat.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459580#Comment_118459580

It's mad to think that almost 2 years in some still don't know how to wear masks properly, a baby can walk within it's first year of life but covering a nose is too difficult for some

I had a lad in a local supermarket yelling at me before Christmas in a case of mistaken identity, mask down by his chin. He came up to me afterwards to apologize, mask still down by his chin, felt like asking why he wears it at all if you can't wear it like an adult?

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460288#Comment_118460288

Because they are irritating and limit breathing. Most people deep down know wearing it is pointless.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460192#Comment_118460192

This latest batch of models has been reasonably OK. They've been right on cases, with hospitals at around their optimistic model. They've also suggested we are at or near the peak of this. Where they fell down completely was on ICU; no bad thing really.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460260#Comment_118460260

Is that needed or practical when a cloth covering will get about 80% of the same effect if worn correctly? No, it's not.

You're gonna need to provide a source for this guff.

Cloth masks are not stopping aerosol, and droplets are not an issue after a couple of meters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460047#Comment_118460047

An aerosol is a respiratory droplet

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460319#Comment_118460319

There is a distinction, as I am certain you know, between droplets and aerosols in virology.

Beasty

Take the mask discussion to the mask thread

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460300#Comment_118460300

Ah, c'mon, you're around here long enough (at least since September 😉) to do your own objective research, there are lots of papers on BMJ, Nature and the other peer reviewed sites.

To a fault, the conclusion is always that surgical grade masks are better but that cloth masks reduce spread as well. Maybe if you do a bit of your own research, you'll be less inclined to post guff all the time (and it will be interesting to see which studies you hone in on vs. what you want the narrative to be).

(and the 80% was top of the head, but a quick check reveals it's mostly about 50% as effective, often times higher).

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460300#Comment_118460300

So a mask is useful if within a couple of meters of someone then?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460357#Comment_118460357

(and the 80% was top of the head, but a quick check reveals it's mostly about 50% as effective, often times higher)

So 80% was a lie then

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460328#Comment_118460328

There is also a massive difference in scale between a virome containing aerosol droplet and a molecule of Hydrogen Sulphide. By 3 orders of magnitude. Which was the point

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460406#Comment_118460406

Somewhat, if someone is coughing or sneezing in close range of you, but a cloth mask will only filter out the larger droplets. Aerosols will still be able to get through and will be suspended in the air, moving with the air flow.

Much more effective is adequate ventilation and airflow, but that doesn't suit the behavioural science aims of keeping people constantly reminded of covid.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460421#Comment_118460421

Maybe it's not, do your own research, I'm sure the results you cherry pick to use will be revealing :) edit: and post them on the mask thread

(This study found the filtration between cloth and surgical was about equal, so in this case, I was wrong, it's 100%, for example, but it will depend on quality of the masks and other papers and studies show differing amount of effect, one thing they all agree on is that they do have an effect and aren't just to annoy the perma-outraged "COVID-Theatre" geeks: Why We Need to Upgrade Our Face Masks--and Where to Get Them - Scientific American)

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460474#Comment_118460474

Yep useful for some situations so. Anyway just saw warning to drop it. But we agree anyway.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460357#Comment_118460357

You don't need winky faces, I've said several times that I closed my old account and made a new one with a less important email address when Boards moved their data overseas.

"Do your own research" is not an answer to someone asking you for a source to back up what you're saying, when you've stated with such absolute authority that "the science is pretty clear on masks".

And poisoning the well with pre-loaded assumptions about which studies I'll choose versus "what I want the narrative to be" is not conducive to any sort of discussion. I have done "a bit of my own research". I'm asking you about yours.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460507#Comment_118460507

I think people who want to wear masks should, and people who don't want to should not be forced to, particularly since it seems that the overwhelming majority of omicron cases come from aerosol spread.

MilkyToast

@mods - the enforced wearing of masks is a restriction, and the effectiveness of them is relevant to discussion about whether or not that particular restriction should be relaxed. Why is that considered out of scope for the "relaxation of restrictions" thread?

Dempo1

Seriously, are the HSE and Government expecting people to upload antigen test results and close contact information 🙄, they are surely deluded , notwithstanding the GDPR implications of a person uploading information on close contacts . This is just extraordinary 😳

This is going to be an OmniShambles

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460529#Comment_118460529

I'm fine with it being one of the last things to go. Like you say in close quarters it can help with droplets. So public transportation and moving around tight spaces it probably helps.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460549#Comment_118460549

We have an entire thread dedicated to Masks. Use it

And next time PM me. Never discuss moderation in thread

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460572#Comment_118460572

What are the gdpr implications?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460707#Comment_118460707

Presumably and without close contacts permissions, someone takes it upon themselves to upload a 3rd parties details 🤔

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460731#Comment_118460731

I dont see the GDPR issue. Assume I test positive. I am not permitted to share the details of people I met and when? Why?

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460731#Comment_118460731

Well I get what is being asked of people.. but are you saying its not gdpr compliant?

MOR316

Who is that Styo Speedman gobshite on Twitter?

MOR316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460846#Comment_118460846

Friend of mine got one this morning, was sent out to her. Went to record her results/details but it's generic. There is no place to put in your name or close contacts.

All a bit suss

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460855#Comment_118460855

I'm primarily curious about how this is actually going to work . I'm open to correction, but it would seem government essentially going to be completely reliant on people uploading information on Antigen test results (I can not see people doing this), the question I raise re GDPR and again, I'm open to correction, people testing positive now expected to upload this information also, which seem very questionable. Let's assume I work with someone, they go and do an antigen test , test positive, the following are likely conclusions.

A. They tell no one, Do nothing and carry on.

B. They upload the test to HSE and upload my details as a close contact and don't say a thing to me or colleagues.

C. They do follow these new guidelines and tell colleagues that are potential close contacts, that still doent make it right , 3rd parties details being uploaded to the HSE website is extraordinary, infact, I'll go further , as government seem now to be telling close contacts that are boosted they need do nothing, why are their details being requested to be uploaded.

Ultimately sharing any persons details in such a manner raises in my mind, serious questions.