Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

M_Murphy57

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345715#Comment_118345715

This. There is a hint of emotional blackmail about those articles. MMs loss, whilst indescribably painful, should not be impacting his decision making - yet he says here its influencing him to try to ensure that all covid deaths must be avoided at all costs.

Covid and cot death cannot be compared like this.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346536#Comment_118346536

Your job could be outsourced to a computer as of now

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347238#Comment_118347238

It's the HSE we are taking about here. They'd be lucky to have a windows95 computer.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347187#Comment_118347187

Just to answer beyond the CT nonsense:

Severeness of Omicron is still up in the air, assumption from authorities until they know better is the same as Delta but higher transmission rates, severity will hopefully be less, London hospitalisations should give us a good idea.

Booster does seem to give 70% protection against Omicron, how long this lasts isn't known yet (guessing 3-9 months), there is only partial vaccine escape (a bit more than Delta), but 70% is probably low enough that a new formulation will be made available (Delta was still 90% while original was 95%), it may not be needed (like the Delta specific vaccines) if Omicron burns itself out quickly (any update vaccines will probably contain the spike protein of multiple strains).

The expiry on vaccines is set conservatively, they are probably fine even when expired but they are 100% safe up till the expiry date.

Originally vaccines had to be kept frozen for stability at super low temperatures, it was later found this wasn't needed and they can be stored in regular freezers and are fine when thawed.

They don't get lethal when "warm", the stability of the vaccine component breaks down and means the vaccine would not be effective, but there is no danger to this.

Shilock

Are you sure about the storage recommendations ?

By the way your last paragraph is absolute word salad and unintelligible gibberish.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347596#Comment_118347596

Which words do you not understand?

This is the official guidelines:

• Refrigeration units that are commonly available in hospitals and pharmacies.
  • The vaccine can also be stored at -25°C to - 15°C (-13°F to 5°F) for two weeks

• The vaccine can be stored for up to one month (31 days) at refrigerated 2-8°C conditions. The various storage options at the POU allow for equitable access to the Pfizer vaccine to areas with differing infrastructure.

Stheno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347596#Comment_118347596

Pfizer was the only one that had to be stored initially at -70, think moderna was -20 and AZ in a normal fridge

After thawing Pfizer and Moderna are fine in a fridge for 30 days

https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/storage-requirements-for-each-covid-19-vaccine/

Theres loads of information if you just bother to look

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346883#Comment_118346883

Masks are just theater at this stage. Understandable in hospitals but see a fair few walking around outdoors with them now and I'm just like eejits.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347636#Comment_118347636

Their intention is spread disinformation not get answers.

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346735#Comment_118346735

Everybody would sympathise with Martin in that situation. It's utterly tragic for it to happen but not directly relevant to the pandemic itself.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346735#Comment_118346735

This is not new information. He gave a very similar interview back in June about parenthood, and their deaths.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40308725.html

People hold memories of their dead children for life. I have every sympathy for the man and accept that it has formed him as a person. That said it has nothing to do with whether he is a good Taoiseach nor is it an excuse for some of the indecision at times during this. As I've said more than once I think he's a worrywart, a conclusion I've managed to come to without fretting about any details in his personal life.

M_Murphy57

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347870#Comment_118347870

He specifically says those experiences are impacting the decisions he is making during the pandemic.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348012#Comment_118348012

Some people say that God makes decisions for them which is just as hard to prove and as likely not to be true. I have known people who've tragically experienced this and their lives don't stop. They may retain the sadness and the memory for the lost child and it may inspire them on to other things but generally speaking it doesn’t have an ongoing overwhelming effect on their lives. We are a whole lot more complex as human beings than the tragedies we learn to live with.

Martin as a politician has always been a ditherer, that's just who he is. His decisions during this may have had some influence from his personal life but it's been mostly allowing NPHET recommendations and numbers to call the shots.

Speak Now

Out for a few beers today with a friend I haven't seen in 2 years, I assume once we are the door by 8 we'll be OK or is it only a thing from tomorrow. #SmartCovid

HalfAndHalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347238#Comment_118347238

Nope!

1. Automation would run on a server not a computer.
2. I’d assume you’d know that there’s far too many variables on a month by month basis to fully automate something like payroll.

TheDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346776#Comment_118346776

Every teacher should be ready for closure. Not that it's going to happen or teachers have any insight/inside line, it's just being prepared for a possibility. No one would be surprised if it did happen, likewise, if it didn't

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348346#Comment_118348346

I process two payrolls for 150 staff and it takes 20 minutes

this is because of integration between softwares

it’s very simple stuff.

all I do is update payroll and the banking part, I also in that 20 minutes carry out checks on 20 payslips

payroll is so easy to do now it is outsourced by many private sector employers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347870#Comment_118347870

I think some of the comments made against Michael Martin regarding his reflections on the death 2 of his children have been utterly disgusting.

The idea that Martin is "using" these deaths to make a point about the politics of COVID-19 is, as I said, vile and disgusting - and anyone making a similar point should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

I've read quite a few comments already, and it's beyond the pale that people would stoop so low just to make a point against a politician.

And I say that as someone who doesn't like Michael Martin as a political leader.

M_Murphy57

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348607#Comment_118348607

Posters here did not make the link between his children and his leadership in the pandemic. Michael Martin *himself* made that link.

He has publically stated it impacts the decisions he makes. Those decisions in turn impact 4-5 million people.

Posters are entitled to comment on statements public figures make and that includes speculating on the timing of those statements.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348637#Comment_118348637

If you lost 2 children, wouldn't that impact every aspect of perspective in your life?

I mean, what is the issue? It's so obvious that something as traumatic as that would have a personal impact about how a person behaves.

In fact, it would be weird if Michael Martin said it didn't play a role in his life and perspective.

M_Murphy57

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348647#Comment_118348647

Of course it would. But Im not Im not the one saying I struggle to take my personal traumatic experience out of my decision making whilst simultaneously being responsible for decisions that impact millions of people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348654#Comment_118348654

Michael Martin's decision to impose restrictions has everything to do with the fact that he's a gutless politician following NPHET; it's as simple as that.

NPHET have and always have called the shots regarding COVID-19, and Martin - and no other Irish politician at that level - would have opposed them.

Chris_5339762

Leo MIGHT have, given that he was/is a doctor and at the very least, has some knowledge of the medical field.

All of the others would blindly follow NPHET but I feel they'd question it more. MM is just like a wet sponge. I really thought he'd be a good taoiseach, but he's the worst we've ever had. Hell, I'd rather Bertie or even Charlie in charge over MM at the moment.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348716#Comment_118348716

Imagine Tony telling Charlie Haughey what to do.🤣

Deusexmachina

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346147#Comment_118346147

Holohan and the rest of NPHET have moved from being an advisory body to Government to proactively determining policy in their own right and communicating those policies through leaks to the media.

How many NPHET members are interviewed by our media and/or quoted in our newspapers every day? They should be completely silent other than to communicate their advice to Government when requested to do so. No interviews, no quotes, no letters.

Nobody voted for these people, they have no mandate. Allowing them to operate like this is absolutely a danger to our democracy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347513#Comment_118347513

In South Africa, they found that 70pc of COVID-19 Omicron patients were incidental findings i.e. - patients who presented to the hospital with other conditions but just found to be COVID-19 positive as per protocol to test patients.

In London, the percentage is currently 50pc. A lot of people are diagnosed in hospital with Omicron but they didn't arrive at the hospital because of Omicron.

The same situation appears to be following suit.

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348647#Comment_118348647

People's lives have been ruined because of his decisions. Businesses wiped out. Life Savings wiped out. He needs to step down if can not or will not make a rational decision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348860#Comment_118348860

I'm the foremost critic of this latest lockdown-lite.

I just don't agree that bringing his two dead children into it, or as a means to criticise him, are justified.

The much-needed criticism against latest restrictions resides not only with NPHET, but with both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail, as well as Sinn Fein - all of whom align with NPHET.

NPHET is and always has been the problem.

HalfAndHalf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348439#Comment_118348439

Yep, so not done by automation. Still needs human intervention. Thanks for confirming what I said.

It’s outsourced to companies that use humans to use the same payroll softwares but still not automation.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348607#Comment_118348607

I feel for anyone who has lost a child and I have some idea on how he feels which I do not want to discuss further on here

many people have suffered by losing those close to us and it does deeply affect you, it rips your **** heart out and you think you can’t go on but you cannot let that very personal trauma affect how you shape other people’s lives

we are not here to play God.

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348882#Comment_118348882

We didn't bring his dead children into this. He did. With all the lives ruined by decisions that have been based on emotions you can't be surprised that people are angry.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348781#Comment_118348781

The simple facts are that NPHET is an advisory body to Government. The do not determine policy and never have. They report to the Government and the Government determines what if any policy will be followed.

When it comes to leaking, far as I have seen they come after NPHET have given their report to Government, and this Government leaks like a sieve. I would be more inclined to believe the pubs and restaurants closing at 5 p.m. leak was more members of government leaking than NPHET and it wasn`t for the first time either this has been done for their own reasons

If I was worried about a danger to out democracy, I would be more worried about Cabinet leaks than those from an advisory body to government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348920#Comment_118348920

That's even worse.

He's allowed to mention his dead children without it being politicised against him by people opposed to lockdowns.

I'm opposed to lockdowns - including this recent pseudo-lockdown announcement - and that's why I'm opposed to Martin and every other mainstream politician in favour of NPHET recommendations.

But I just do not see the value of politicising his 2 dead children. In fact, I think to even engage in that kind of discussion is bordering on the sick.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348882#Comment_118348882

NPHET are not the problem, they are doing their job, the blame firmly lies at the feet of the weak leadership in the government. They are afraid to make a decision.

The way I see it is that NPHET will make their recommendations which will always be 100% medical based and risk adverse. They dont care about any other factors. Government are suppose to take those recommendations on board as well as other factors and make their decisions on that but because the leadership is weak they have accepted and implemented everything NPHET advise because they don't have to take responsibility. Simple as that Martin has never made a decision in his life.

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348942#Comment_118348942

Its the timing that irks people. Just after imposing more restrictions for Christmas [and probably a lockdown announcement in the coming days] this interview drops. People are going to be angry that their lives have been ruined because he and Holohan are making emotional based decisions instead of rational ones. They need to step down if they are not capable of doing that. The people have suffered enough.

dragonkin

Michael Martin was on Brendan O’Connor today saying the the covid passes would be updated with the booster in the new year. It will be compulsory and part of an EU wide rollout? Also the German Health minister has called for mandatory vaccination asap.

Its good to see governments taking this seriously especially in regard to the unvaccinated who are frankly a danger to themselves and others. I’m hoping in the new year we might have this a little bit under control but it’s going to take a lot more than closing the pubs/restaurants at 8pm.

Steveimitation

And how do we control the future variants then eh?

PsychoPete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349123#Comment_118349123

We just wait for a new booster for each new variant

Steveimitation

Forever?

PsychoPete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349242#Comment_118349242

Yeah just get dosed up every three months and if we are all good little citizens Tony might allow us to stay in a pub past 8

Hego Damask

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345902#Comment_118345902

in fairness these people queuing are getting it for themselves, I doubt they are under any illusion that it will change things restriction wise.

And booster does seem to protect against Omicrn - at least till the next variant comes along.

But we need to get this crap out of our heads that this is working on population level - it isn't, it's working on individual level.

Steveimitation

That's just not true though is it? Plenty of people got the original vaccine to try and access a return to normality not because they feared the disease.

And plenty of people are doing that with the booster too.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349306#Comment_118349306

You make a fair point about the individual vaccines, I guess, but we're not going to comply the restrictions away, there still needs to be some pushback.

Like I said before, I'll most likely take the booster, depending on how they link it to travel & certs, but I plan on being a bad statistic for a while at least.

Beasty

Drop the references to personal tragedies. They are not issues that warrant discussion here

Any questions PM me. Do not respond to this post in-thread

ginoginelli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118348607#Comment_118348607

Agreed, its absolutely sickening. I'd like to say a new low for this thread but the sad trolls on here are pretty consistent with their cruelty and callousness.

Hego Damask

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349363#Comment_118349363

100% agree...

PTH2009

After 8 drinking we shall meet again my chum

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349703#Comment_118349703

Yeah Costa might bring them back some day...

Richard Hillman

Is it a case of that the government need NPHET in place to be able to roll on and off restrictions?

As in with the "emergency" legislation in place, they wouldn't be able to justify having them in place if there is no emergency response committee?

It sounds to me like they are intent on having restrictions for the long term. If the EU are insisting that countries have their updated booster passports throughout all of next year and probably beyond, we might be stuck with NPHET for a long long time.

If we are stuck with NPHET for years ahead, then government should actually be looking to hire actual experts from outside that have no conflicts of interest or long term national goals.

Send Glynn and Holohan back to their day jobs.

Floppybits

Be interesting to see what the attendance will be like this week for the schools. They should really have closed them on Friday.