Mica Redress

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966133#Comment_117966133

What if the car company was ignoring regulations and the government were told about it and allowed those companies to sell defective product, not even bothered to inform the public that they were putting their life savings into rubbish.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966133#Comment_117966133

You obviously have no idea what the scheme covers. The public are completely clueless about all of this. There are no upgrades unless you pay for them. You're expected to remove the existing kitchen, store it and reuse it. The house will be rebuilt to the original specification. Again, if you want to upgrade your insulation, you pay for it. That's completely fair IMHO.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966260#Comment_117966260

Is this stated anywhere? My understanding is that any new houses will have to be built in line with current building regulations?!?

Personally I can’t picture a scenario where, to resolve an issue brought about by regulations being ignored, new builds would be built ignoring the regulations in place today!

Although if any government would be that stupid it would be our the current one!

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965985#Comment_117965985

If people in Meath, Louth and Kildare go asking the taxpayers for more than €350k each to build them a new house that is far bigger than the national average, then you can be sure that people will be asking questions about the size of the houses. At the moment they're not, so it's an irrelevant point.

There's no anti-Donegal sentiment here. There's anti spending over 3 billion of taxpayer money on luxury spec houses whilst we have a homeless crisis. It's not that hard to understand, but if you want to think it's just the World against Donegal (and Mayo) then fire away.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966113#Comment_117966113

Interesting replies in this thread.

Thats 2 people so far who are replying to me along the lines of "you are wrong, stop saying that".

And thats it - nothing to back it up - no reasoning just "be quiet your posts doesnt suit my point of view". Maybe you lads have a crystal ball that can see the future when taking a case under EU legislation because it sounds like you havent a clue what's really involved. Unless someone wants to post why they think a case under EU legislation wont be successful?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966344#Comment_117966344

"luxury spec houses"

Jesus.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966333#Comment_117966333

Is this stated anywhere? My understanding (as an affected homeowner speaking to my engineer) is that any new houses will have to be built to the original specification. Upgrades will be paid by the homeowner.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966410#Comment_117966410

Your telling me you have an engineer saying that if your house needs to be rebuilt, it won’t need to be built in line with regulations that exist today?

Is he presuming a planning exemption being granted? Has anyone in government even hinted at such exemptions being facilitated? While I'm not doubting that you’ve been told this, I’ll believe it when I see it!

On a personal level I hope a resolution is found as it is surely a stressful situation for both you and the many others impacted.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966399#Comment_117966399

No offence but 2800 sqr feet is a luxury. Space is a luxury. Let's not pretend it's not

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966438#Comment_117966438

Ha! A big shed is spacious. Luxury it isn't.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966459#Comment_117966459

Ah so majority of these are sheds now.

Grand , lucky that's sorted. Sure a shed costs under 60k to throw up.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966479#Comment_117966479

Now you're being facetious. You can have a spacious house without luxury. You're trying to create a 'luxury McMansion' narrative.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966516#Comment_117966516

I was responding in kind to your barn comment. Facetious goes both ways.

You seem to think scale of a house doesn't equate luxury. I can tell you it most definitely does. Space is a premium I only have to point to the average house size nationally which as per your own comments the majority of these houses exceed.

So let's not try change the narrative that scale and space are not a luxury item they are regardless of what bathroom or kitchen you decide to fit.

And no I don't subscribe to the Mc whatever analogies either. It's gimmicky.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966387#Comment_117966387

Anyone with even a bare concept of how law works knows there is no way to recover the money. If there were, those affected would use that. But they won't because they can't. So they'll sell a nonsense story to the whoever is gullible enough to believe it that "don't you worry dear taxpayer, you hand me over cold hard cash, and I will give you the chance to recover the cost from the original manufacturer - as well as the contact details of this Nigerian Prince who has the opportunity of a lifetime for you".

If you think anyone has a legal entitlement to recover here - please explain in detail. He who asserts must prove.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966459#Comment_117966459

LOL, keep this up and you'll do a good job of reducing support for this campaign even further. Up to 350k per house is already a large amount and sets a very problematic precedent. As another poster suggested, the state could (but won't as it is as soft as sh*t) offer affected homeowners an average sized house in an estate within a reasonable distance of where they live. Like it or lump it. Still a huge cost to the taxpayer.

As well as the money, precedent and principle, any redress scheme will be open to abuse. It's what people do and is particularly prevalent in the "duckin and divin" parts of the country i.e the west and border regions. The same people who bought lawnmowers using the cycle to work scheme will be looking for ways to profit from any mica redress. Builders will be licking their lips in anticipation of state funded work. Then there will be another scandal.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966559#Comment_117966559

Ive already explained it in the last 2 pages of this thread. Yes it may take some time but it can happen even if it means backpaying the difference between what the government pays people now and what they are actually entitled to under EU law.

So far your basis for saying it wont be successful is: "IT WONT! IT WONT I TELL YOU!".

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966584#Comment_117966584

Why should someone with a 200sqm house on half an acre of land in the countryside have to move into a housing estate in a town? What happens to the crumbling house and the land?

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966623#Comment_117966623

Nobody is forcing anyone to move into a town. People are free to rebuild their mica affected house using their own funds. For fairness, perhaps the state can contribute an amount equivalent to the cost of providing a modest sized house in a town. The state can also contribute to the cost of removing waste building materials and returning mica affected sites to farmland.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966651#Comment_117966651

How much did the people Ballymun pay towards their new homes, last time I looked the state had spent over a billion on them? and it's still a s*ithole

Or the like of all these other regenerations projects around the city, who pays for them, a lot of outrage on here for any state money spent outside Dublin.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966651#Comment_117966651

Who owns the farmland?

DubLad69

If there was just one house involved would people be willing to support the government paying the cost to rebuild a 300sqm house in Dublin?

I don't think the government or the tax payers owe these people anything. People's lives are ruined daily through no fault of their own, people get seriously ill and die, people loose their jobs, their business fails, their partner leaves them. Any of which could cause financial ruin. Yes it is terrible, but it is a fact of life.

Saying that, I don't think we should just leave all of these people high and dry. The government should pay the reasonable costs, but with some combination of these conditions.

1. A set contribution from each home owner (say €10k, a big chunk, but won't ruin your life)

2. Limited to say 150% of the average sqm of a house in Ireland (Dublin houses are small so maybe exclude Dublin when calculated)

3. Cover 95% of the costs

4. Cover 100% of costs but require home owners to fund the mandatory cost of bringing the home up to current environmental standards.

5. Cover 100% of costs to relocate into similar sized house in an estate.

Basically, I think there should be some compromise from the homeowners. Even if their insurance covered this issue, it would never cover the full costs.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966585#Comment_117966585

I went through the last 2 pages, the only thing of relevance was a link to a 15 minute radio clip, which I listened to. That was quite vague about taking a court case against the state and block manufacturers - but if I understand correctly, their case against the state is that it failed to correctly implement EU directives - and so suing the government for its failure

As regards an explanation of why the tax payer should stump up hard cash for your Nigerian prince opportunity to recover money off the manufacturers, it is nonsense.

It boils down to "it's your fault state/tax payer". Obviously they know that the case is very weak - otherwise they wouldn't be begging the state to stump up the hard cash as a charity thing.

NIMAN

Can some of those arguing against the government fixing this issue tell me what the state would do to house at least 7000 families if they are became homeless? And I'm looking for serious answers.

The only way out of that would be to build 7000+ new social homes in Donegal. How much would that cost the state?

So as you can see, what ever way you look at it, this is costing the state and the taxpayer big time.

As for price gouging, perhaps the state could offer a fixed contract to one or two large construction companies to do this job, rather than having individual building contractor's do what is an immense undertaking.

And finally, as for the comment accusing certain people from certain parts of the country as being crooks, that deserved a card, and just shows your prejudice.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967636#Comment_117967636

There's been plenty of serious answers given.

Why not address them than shouting into the void of the edge cases giving out about the while program. Those people are just as unreasonable as those looking for blanket 100% redress. It's nonsense. And maintaining some sort of Donegal seige mentality is silly. People would be giving out the same if Wexford folks were looking for blanket 100 percent coverage. So start with the sensible responses....

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967649#Comment_117967649

I wouldn't be giving out if it was happening in Wexford as I know what it's like. It's happening to me. You wouldn't be giving out if it was happening to you either.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967636#Comment_117967636

If applicable pay HAP, provide social housing etc. There may be a need to build additional social housing - but that would be a state asset and appropriately sized and finished.

It's a big difference between the state building appropriately sized housing which it owns versus paying whatever someone else wants to build whatever they want and they get the keep the results.

If the work were tendered in one large lot, only 1 or 2 construction companies would be large enough to take on the work (if at all) - which would mean no competition for the work and they could make their price.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966773#Comment_117966773

It's that headline €3.2bn that has caught peoples' eye along the issue of house size and what appear to be excessive demands. Ballymun's houses are great so job done on that score! The building plan never included sorting out the social issues.

cunnifferous

I don't understand why 350k isn't acceptable to the campaigners? With the land already owned, this is more than enough to build a spacious high quality property even with ancillary costs. What should the limit be 500k, 700k? Looking to have a 250sqm+ house rebuilt at the full cost to the state I think would stick in most peoples craw. Surely under the circumstances, and considering in many aspects the new houses will be superior to the old ones, they should accept something on a smaller scale? 200sqm would be fit for a family of 5 or 6 easily and would come in under the 350k budget

10000maniacs

The bottom line is most of already squeezed middle Ireland are against paying nearly a grand for every man, woman and child in the country to sort out the mica mess.

They don't want their hard laboured for money frittered away in this way. How many social houses will that €3.2 billion buy?

The squeezed middle feel responsibility to the people who need social housing, but they don't feel in any way responsible for this Mica scandal. And so they should not.

The homeowners were unlucky, but stuff happens.

Yelling and demanding 100% redress to ministers who are genuinely trying to come up with a fair and equitable solution (fair to the taxpayer too) won't help them.

They need to show a little more gratitude for starters.

Everything they get from here on in is a bonus or gift from the taxpayer, Whether it's 50% or 75% or whatever. Think of it in those terms, because that is what it is in reality. The government or the taxpayer has no legal liability to do anything.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117968342#Comment_117968342

By that logic there should have been no PUP during Covid. Stuff happens, people who lost their jobs through no fault of their own should have just sucked it up.