Mica Redress

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971378#Comment_117971378

Interesting. Do you have a link to the poll research. They generally publish it. All other articles related to that seem to have disappeared except that Highland radio one.

Wheres the detail ?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971449#Comment_117971449

https://extra.ie/2021/06/27/news/irish-news/clear-majority-of-public-support-full-compensation-for-mica-victims

I can't find the poll research.

Captain_Crash

@jj880 just so you know I’m not having a go and I’d rather hope you stay engaged to ensure debate! Any outcome regarding the implementation of legislation won’t be backdated so I can’t see how Europe can do anything other than recommended future regulation.

I’d love to chat in more detail about this if you wish. It’s surely an emotive topic but equally interesting.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971670#Comment_117971670

Ok you sound genuine so I will engage. Upon the result of our high court case it was only a matter of weeks before the EU contacted the Irish government and forced them to cease all illegal activity and ammend legislation. The EU dont mess around. There was no room for any nonsense from the Irish Government like finishing up what they were doing under old legislation and filing for retention. It all stopped then and there.

If you have been following this thread closely you will have read there were mica infested blocks produced as recently as last August. I'm not up to speed on statute of limitations and warranty on concrete blocks but I think if a result comes from the High Court soon and the EU rules quickly there is scope for a lot more than ensuring future regulation alone.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971715#Comment_117971715

The thing here with what you say is, the EU can’t just get involved with Irish courts cases like that! The high court can certainly refer matters to the EU, but the EU can’t get involved unless it’s been referred to them, its just not the way the legal system works.

I can’t see a situation where any change to regulation could be backdated, there is certainly no precedent for that happening in the past.

Your post speaks of a case having been intercepted by the EU so to speak, can you cite this as I cannot find any record of any case existing either here or in Brussels

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972303#Comment_117972303

The EU doesn't just "get involved" or "intercept" anything. An EU citizen can go to Brussels and get a meeting about their case. An MEP can help arrange this. If you have a legal expert that can point to the legislation that a member state has not followed the EU can step in. I think you are fishing now so Im not replying any more.

moon2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971715#Comment_117971715

Can you share details about this ruling? The most recent news I can find was from a few days ago, where campaigners met Clare Daly. https://www.donegallive.ie/news/local-news/671938/ireland-mica-campaigners-meet-european-commission.html for discussions about the implementation of the IS465 legislation in Ireland. Seems odd that they'd be wasting their time discussing the legality of the legislation if it had already been found to be illegal.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971440#Comment_117971440

And only people who have any vested interest vote in those polls anyway.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972334#Comment_117972334

We dont follow VRT for example.

The EU did nothing about Grenville for example there are hundreds of other towers around UK with the same problem.

I don't see the EU resolving any 100 percent redress to be honest.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972334#Comment_117972334

No, that’s not how it works…. You can meet the EU all you like and discuss anything you want but if someone wants the EU to make a formal judgement on any matter, it won’t happen until it has been through the court system here. I cannot find any record of that happening…. Yet!

I may be mistaken but from what I’m gathering here is that campaigners met with an (Irish) MEP? This means nothing from a legal standpoint and the EU judicial system won’t take any matter on until it’s been referred to it by the courts here.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972347#Comment_117972347

That's not how Red C polling works.

cruizer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972347#Comment_117972347

There is no details but generally Red C poll, means they have stopped someone in street or rang them up and asked them to participate in survey where number of questions will be asked, e.g. confidence in government, who would you vote for if election tomorrow that kind of thing along with other topical questions so the 71% would be correct at the time with small margin of error.

However, that poll was in June, a lot of people didn't even really know much about the issue then and definitely didn't know the extent or estimated costs, I'd be very surprised if a poll taken today would show the same result.

Anyone I have talked to agrees the governments needs to step in to help but that a 100% redress is too much and there needs to be limitations.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971638#Comment_117971638

https://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Business-Post-RED-C-Opinion-Poll-Report-Jun-2021.pdf

The question was "The government should provide a redress scheme to cover 100% of the costs (or 'all costs') for those whose homes were impacted by the mica block controversy" (Agree/Disagree)

There are a couple of things in that 71%. Not least the fact that what most people understood about the mica problem was from Prime Time and other programmes where we saw people living in crumbling homes with their kids. The question itself even includes the word "homes".

I suspect if you took the same poll now and asked if 100% redress should be provided for all property owners, not just homeowners, you'll get a different outcome.

The campaigners involved are asking the government to spend the cost of a children's hospital in a very short space of time, with a lot of that money being effectively handed over to property investors.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972343#Comment_117972343

That article doesn't say that they actually met the Commission. They met Clare Daly, who is about as useful as a block of mica at this stage.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973132#Comment_117973132

If the question was:

"Do you believe that all property owners should get 100% compensation for their mica properties, including those which are McMansions three times the size of the average Dublin home?"

then the answer would probably be around 20% yes or less.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973701#Comment_117973701

If?

Walt Disney made a fortune from films loosely based around the word if.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963995#Comment_117963995

It's not slightly bigger. 40% of houses as per your figures are 175% the size of the average dwelling.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971638#Comment_117971638

That poll was from June. Things have moved on since, and the revised cost is now public domain.

I would imagine, given the cost and less than endearing performances on TV that support has fallen.

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974105#Comment_117974105

Not just that appalling TV performance from yer wan - the contributions on this very thread have moved me from being largely supportive to now, largely unsupportive of these folk, especially the facetious posts like claiming that large houses equate to sheds. Not a bean should be granted to these charlatans until they see sense and drop any claim that this is a state obligation - I'd rather that they asked nicely, said "please and thank you" to the people rather than rattling on with breath taking entitlement about 100% of the costs - I now totally oppose that

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974449#Comment_117974449

Ah yeah but dontcha know they'll assign over their rights to bring claims (that's sure to be worth something under EU law surely?), sure paying it back would be spread over 20 years, there'll be a fair bit of tax paid to the state anyway, anyone else who could be helped by the money is a lazy leech undeserving of assistance & sure if the tax payer didn't give their money for this, t'would be wasted anyway.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974449#Comment_117974449

I'm fairly sure the affected homeowners will do just fine without your support.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974449#Comment_117974449

No one was claiming large houses equate to sheds. You are twisting the narrative.

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975381#Comment_117975381

Its not just me though - if others react the same way as I have then homeowners will remain in trouble. The arrogant attitude you and group spokespeople's have displayed so far is turning the public against your cause - but sure, you don't need my support - you are pinning a lot on this being an obligation on the state

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966459#Comment_117966459

cough, cough...

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975657#Comment_117975657

You don't really have a clue, do you?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975381#Comment_117975381

I'm sure they will do just fine without one person's support, but if they lose the general public then the campaign is dead. This isn't like a union campaign where public sympathy doesn't count a lot (but is still important) - it is absolutely everything here. The campaigners are essentially seeking charity, they have no leverage, other than booting two government TDs out at the next election.

If a narrative gets established that the campaigners want the state to build houses for them that a considerable proportion of them far exceed the national average in size then the campaign will fail. You have to remember that while this campaign for funds is going on, at same time there are many thousands of families in the rest of the State that can't afford to own any property are expected to pay for this.

For the campaigners, public good will is essential.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975933#Comment_117975933

I suppose they could continue with the everyone hates donegal narrative... Because you know that works ....! Bizarre stuff altogether.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975663#Comment_117975663

Yeah, I wasn't claiming that large houses equate to sheds though. A big shed is spacious. It's not luxury. That's not equating a large house to a shed no matter how you try to spin it.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975381#Comment_117975381

Really? How much state money went to bailing out individual house holders faced with loosing their home during the recession?

People are always supportive until it starts to cost them money and three billion is a very big figure. There are very few votes in this for TDs outside Mayo and Donegal, so don't be surprised if the final outcome is not positive.

Penfailed

The government have announced that they will be sending 3.5 billion euro north of the border for infrastructure projects over the next ten years. You're all against that too, I suppose?