What's your job & salary

Akrasia

If I am asked in an interview what my salary expectation is, I always try to get them to tell me what their budget is first and then negotiate based off that, on the application form, not answering it would disqualify most candidates from the screening process so it’s an unfair disadvantage

Wildly Boaring

salonfire wrote: »

It's called being a responsible adult. Looking at the facts and identifying risks and weaknesses and asking some hard questions. I guess that's why I am a manager and you are not. I'd love to pay myself €1m a year but don't because of the knock on repercussions that would lead to.

Why do you think these companies are making billions? Hint, it's because they always look at the bottom line and if employee salaries damage that, they'll take steps to protect it.

You're a mad badger.

"That's why I'm a manager and you're not."
Allowed up late in Friday as there's no school in the morning?

You picked a strange example in a site manager to compare with doctors. In that most site managers work for indigenous companies, not multinationals,. These companies can't relocate cus well they are building here??

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Why would people study their a*se off to become doctors when glorified builders ("site managers") earn 100k+ without a quarter of the knowledge required of a doctor.

Because they're looking for something even more glorified to do.

Nekarsulm

Full time CO in the Civil Service.
Two years service.
Take home pay €391.00 per week.

Wildly Boaring

billyhead wrote: »

It just goes to show a lot of people would be better of doing an apprenticeship or trade than going to 3rd level.

Thought I'd come back to this train.

What people forget about trades earnin big money is that they need to "make hay".

Unfortunately building in this country is incredibly cyclical due to madly disfunctional property market.

Trades have long memories and many of them had no income here from 2008 to 2012.

Then they have to deal with this maddening ****e where people simply don't pay them despite the labour and materials they have supplied. They get fobbed off for months and sometimes thx pricks that didn't pay ho under and they get nada.

On top of this you have main contractors who refuse to pay the full amount knowing you need them more than they need you. And God forbid you have a few claims!! There are fellas in high places in this country who take a sick pleasure in doing damage to subbies.

Also in areas like groundworks the main contractors make huge effort to put all risk with the subbies.

All in all it's an area that I could have gone into many times but frankly lack the courage.

mloc123

One thing is for sure ...

Some people get very annoyed at the thought that others earn more money then them.

Akrasia

salonfire wrote: »

It's called being a responsible adult. Looking at the facts and identifying risks and weaknesses and asking some hard questions. I guess that's why I am a manager and you are not. I'd love to pay myself €1m a year but don't because of the knock on repercussions that would lead to.

Why do you think these companies are making billions? Hint, it's because they always look at the bottom line and if employee salaries damage that, they'll take steps to protect it.

Being a manager does not make you a better person than the employees you manage. It’s that kind of ****e that ruins businesses. Being a manager requires a specific set of skills, but a good manager enables skilled workers to use their time and skills efficiently , it’s the workers who actually generate the wealth

A well run organization needs both skilled workers and good managers but this heirarchical org structure can be a huge drag on efficiency

If I have an excellent software developer on my team he is way better off leading projects than leading teams or heading departments, but on an org chart, a project lead is way below a department lead..

Being a software developer does not make you a good manager, and being a manager means you have way less time to do the software development you’re good at and actually enjoy doing

Akrasia

mloc123 wrote: »

One thing is for sure ...

Some people get very annoyed at the thought that others earn more money then them.

https://youtu.be/U8Kum8OUTuk

almostover

Senior mechanical R&D engineer with an MNC in medical devices. €70k salary + 12.5% bonus. 9 years experience with a post graduate qualification. Jobs market in my field is very competitive at the moment and my employer has wised up. Been a good few promotions of late internally due to people leaving for more money. Have benefited by staying put which is rarely the case. You can often climb up the salary scale faster by moving every 2-3 years.

VG31

salonfire wrote: »

Ireland is not a rich country, we should be paying ourselves far less and praying MNCs will continue to operate here with competitiveness our main selling point.

Is this a joke?

arsebiscuits82

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Cross country boxing coach - €25k pa.



construction management, 65k, long hours, relentless stress, not even close worth it but the bills just keep coming and need to be paid. I'll be dead from stress by 40 if i keep at this crap

I feel your pain, working construction 7-6 on average Monday to Friday with 45 min commute both ways, so I'm gone after 6 in the morning and home for 7 usually.

Was up to midnight last night and currently processing data for monthly valuation due in for Monday, which will eat into tomorrow and Sunday as well. I love my job, but with young kids I'm thinking of changing. It's not worth it. I was like a bear coming home this evening. It's not fair on my kids coming home in bad humour.

I met a former colleague today and he commented that I'd lost weight and looked beat.

A topic for another thread maybe but construction, the expectations and the hours along with it need to change. Any wonder it's hard to find staff.

arsebiscuits82

arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

I feel your pain, working construction 7-6 on average Monday to Friday with 45 min commute both ways, so I'm gone after 6 in the morning and home for 7 usually.

Was up to midnight last night and currently processing data for monthly valuation due in for Monday, which will eat into tomorrow and Sunday as well. I love my job, but with young kids I'm thinking of changing. It's not worth it. I was like a bear coming home this evening. It's not fair on my kids coming home in bad humour.

I met a former colleague today and he commented that I'd lost weight and looked beat.

A topic for another thread maybe but construction, the expectations and the hours along with it need to change. Any wonder it's hard to find staff.

The first job I had out of college was working on a multiple hundred million euro infrastructure project. Did it for about a year and GTF out of there. It does bad things to people.

MooShop

mloc123 wrote: »

Graduate developers are starting on ~55k in my current company... base salary. They then get stock and bonus on top of that.

Would they be hiring by any chance?!!

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

It’s extremely unfair because you’re negotiating blind while still competing with an unknown number of other candidates that the you have no visibility over. In an auction, you can see other bids, in a tender, you get to provide detailed coatings and breakdowns of your value proposition, but in an interview/application form, you get very limited time and space and it’s a very lobsided process.

They know exactly how much they are prepared to pay, and if there are 2 candidates who are roughly the same but one of them sets their salary expectation at the exact amount the employer is expecting to pay, but the other offers to work for 10k a year less. It puts the person who undervalued their experience at an advantage in the selection process but a disadvantage in their career and income progression

The minimum salary should always be advertised to allow inexperienced workers to sell themselves at a lower rate while experienced candidates can offer themselves at a premium

There is a reason why employers rarely advertise the salary except for minimum wage jobs, and that’s because not advertising the salary gives the employer a big advantage when negotiating the salary

In any negotiation the first mover has an inherent disadvantage as they set either the floor (buyer) or Ceiling(seller) in all future negotiations
If the floor is way too low the other party walks away, if it’s close or even way better than the other party expected, the 2nd mover can still haggle that price to their own advantagw

You're arguing the power should switch from the employer to the potential employees. That only makes sense from an employee POV. The employer offers a role, and nobody is forced to apply.

Forget about the disadvantaged employee - AN employee will get it at a salary they are happy with. So, the employer and an employee are happy. What can be wrong with that?

IF an employee asks for what they genuinely believe they are worth and don't get the job because another qualified candidate offered lower that's tough, but not unfair.

And in negotiation theory those that make the first offer have the advantage, if memory serves.

masterboy123

I started this thread.

I am a doctor working in HSE, and I earn less than €80k, and I work about 60 hours a week

I am happy to see software engineers are earning very well.

Thanks everyone

onrail wrote: »

Not belittling the skills and experience of a doctor, this is complete nonsense.

1. It's a general trend in construction that the greater the educational level, the less you're paid. (Not belittling trades, theyre simply worth more on site)

2. Try manage a construction site sometime. If you think you've seen stress, you havent even scratched the surface

onrail

masterboy123 wrote: »

I started this thread.

I am a doctor working in HSE, and I earn less than €80k, and I work about 60 hours a week

I am happy to see software engineers are earning very well.

Thanks everyone

Why quote my post?

masterboy123

masterboy123 wrote: »

I started this thread.

I am a doctor working in HSE, and I earn less than €80k, and I work about 60 hours a week

You must be an intern or an SHO? Being a junior NCHD is fairly thankless but at least it's brief.

arsebiscuits82

arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

I feel your pain, working construction 7-6 on average Monday to Friday with 45 min commute both ways, so I'm gone after 6 in the morning and home for 7 usually.

Was up to midnight last night and currently processing data for monthly valuation due in for Monday, which will eat into tomorrow and Sunday as well. I love my job, but with young kids I'm thinking of changing. It's not worth it. I was like a bear coming home this evening. It's not fair on my kids coming home in bad humour.

I met a former colleague today and he commented that I'd lost weight and looked beat.

A topic for another thread maybe but construction, the expectations and the hours along with it need to change. Any wonder it's hard to find staff.

Do you have any automation or programming you can use to help process the data for you? I find some people loose hours manually copying and pasting or hunting through a mess of files hunting information for eom.

Something like python if you had programming basics can speed up things maybe.

onrail

arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

I feel your pain, working construction 7-6 on average Monday to Friday with 45 min commute both ways, so I'm gone after 6 in the morning and home for 7 usually.

Was up to midnight last night and currently processing data for monthly valuation due in for Monday, which will eat into tomorrow and Sunday as well. I love my job, but with young kids I'm thinking of changing. It's not worth it. I was like a bear coming home this evening. It's not fair on my kids coming home in bad humour.

I met a former colleague today and he commented that I'd lost weight and looked beat.

A topic for another thread maybe but construction, the expectations and the hours along with it need to change. Any wonder it's hard to find staff.

I can't find them at the minute, but there are a a fair few threads on the quagmire that is construction as a graduate. Many more than you looking out, very few able to find the way though!

onrail

onrail wrote: »

When you break that down as an hourly rate over say 33 weeks worked, its €55/hr. Scale that up over normal working hours and weeks, it's nearly a €100k job.

Excellent gig if you're good at it!

If you're good at it you won't be working for 22 hours a week. Only the lazy feckers get away with that.


But it is a short working year, that's for sure.

CosmicFool

I've been reskilling for a few years now and got a Biotech Production Specialist job. On 72K which includes shift allowance,health care, bonuses etc.

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're arguing the power should switch from the employer to the potential employees. That only makes sense from an employee POV. The employer offers a role, and nobody is forced to apply.

Forget about the disadvantaged employee - AN employee will get it at a salary they are happy with. So, the employer and an employee are happy. What can be wrong with that?

IF an employee asks for what they genuinely believe they are worth and don't get the job because another qualified candidate offered lower that's tough, but not unfair.

And in negotiation theory those that make the first offer have the advantage, if memory serves.

When there is information asymmetry there is very often a first mover disadvantage. The anchoring effect has its limits, if you as the buyer know how much something is worth (because you’re an expert) but the seller is unsure the buyer should get the seller to name their price first. The seller will sometimes name a price that the buyer might consider very low and would have been prepared to pay way more than that, but the buyer will still negotiate down from the sellers first offer

http://journal.sjdm.org/17/17327a/jdm17327a.html

There is a concept called the winners curse
‘

One line of research that implies a first-mover disadvantage due to a combination of uncertainty, lack of sufficient information and threat by other alternative players describes a “winner’s curse” – a situation in which the first mover in biddings may win but overpay (Becker, Clement & Nöth, 2016; Giliberto & Varaiya, 1989; Thaler, 1988).’

Loschelder et al. (2014) demonstrated that, in integrative negotiations where the sender revealed private information about compatible preferences, which the recipient could take advantage of for his or her own benefit, making the first offer might backfire.

Think about the pawn-shop owner in the above example. When the seller approaches him with the item for sale (bull-horn clippers, in this example), he can easily estimate the price he is willing to pay. His professional knowledge should reduce the uncertainty from his perspective, and therefore he is not expected to be anchored by the first offer of the seller. Moreover, research has shown that focusing on information that counters the anchor, for example one’s goals in the negotiation, may eliminate the anchoring effect altogether (Galinsky & Mussweiler, 2001). Actually, moving second may entail an opportunity for the shop owner. Since this is a case of asymmetry of information, and the shop owner is the expert, in some cases the seller might ask for less than the shop owner would have offered if he were to make the first offer.

In a hiring process the anchoring effect is not that effective in most cases where the hiring manager is given a budget with little to no wriggle room and have multiple candidates competing over the same job. They’re effectively already anchored while the candidate is blind. The hiring manager would bite the hand off a qualified candidate who undervalued their salary expectation and reject any candidate who they feel won’t be happy to work for the offered salary,

There is a very good reason why most job advertised do not include a salary range.

And in terms of productivity for both the employer and employee it is economically and psychologically disadvantageous to try to ‘win’ the salary negotiation because an employer employee relationship should be founded on trust and good will, not on one side having tricked the other side using deceptive negotiation tactics

If employers were forced to advertise the range they are prepared to pay DOE, then only employees who are compatible with that offer would apply for the role in the first place, and the negotiation on salary could be based on the quality of the candidate’s experience instead of the candidate trying to guess what the hiring managers budget is

WhiteMemento9

Elessar wrote: »

What area? Most I know in software get to a ceiling around €65k. Unless contracting, then yeah its' 100k+ per year.

I don't know what part of the country you are talking about but most people I know (Dublin) are hitting around 60-65k with 2 years of experience and quicker in some cases. These are not outliers. That seems to be the going rate currently from a number of people I know who moved recently to new companies with that level of experience.

Amadan Dubh

With inflation roaring back, it looks like a lot of employers will need to open their purses to pay a lot of people more wedge. Be wary of companies saying they need to freeze salary rises as things get back to normal as you will be left with less in your pocket over the coming months, if the inflation trends from the likes of the US are anything to go on.

costacorta

Smee_Again wrote: »

You’ve obviously never had back to back calls all day with no time to take a piss.

Try taking a piss when doing a ceiling and walking on stilts .

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

When there is information asymmetry there is very often a first mover disadvantage. The anchoring effect has its limits, if you as the buyer know how much something is worth (because you’re an expert) but the seller is unsure the buyer should get the seller to name their price first. The seller will sometimes name a price that the buyer might consider very low and would have been prepared to pay way more than that, but the buyer will still negotiate down from the sellers first offer

http://journal.sjdm.org/17/17327a/jdm17327a.html

There is a concept called the winners curse
‘





In a hiring process the anchoring effect is not that effective in most cases where the hiring manager is given a budget with little to no wriggle room and have multiple candidates competing over the same job. They’re effectively already anchored while the candidate is blind. The hiring manager would bite the hand off a qualified candidate who undervalued their salary expectation and reject any candidate who they feel won’t be happy to work for the offered salary,

There is a very good reason why most job advertised do not include a salary range.

And in terms of productivity for both the employer and employee it is economically and psychologically disadvantageous to try to ‘win’ the salary negotiation because an employer employee relationship should be founded on trust and good will, not on one side having tricked the other side using deceptive negotiation tactics

If employers were forced to advertise the range they are prepared to pay DOE, then only employees who are compatible with that offer would apply for the role in the first place, and the negotiation on salary could be based on the quality of the candidate’s experience instead of the candidate trying to guess what the hiring managers budget is

First of all there's the Public service transparency. But, I think you're being paranoid.


I have more than once recruited and offered someone more than what was being considered for the role when it was being drawn up, just because we were blown away at interview, even though they asked for more than we'd planned. IF we had advertised at what we planned we could have missed out on those candidates.



Similarly, if you get it wrong and over price the role you'll get people applying that would not expect that amount.


Fairness goes both ways, it doesn't mean the winning employee getting maximum pay out of the employer. What the winning candidate desires IS fair.



But, if it makes you feel better, I can guarantee you with 100% certainty a job for you starting Monday without interview, salary range between €10.20 and €1,000,000 per annum. Genuine offer.

dazberry

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

I don't know what part of the country you are talking about but most people I know (Dublin) are hitting around 60-65k with 2 years of experience and quicker in some cases. These are not outliers. That seems to be the going rate currently from a number of people I know who moved recently to new companies with that level of experience.

Not disagreeing with you but the weird thing is that the market seems all over the place. I've been passively looking to move and most things I see via agencies seem to top out at 70k senior before moving into lead etc. It sort of seems a waste of time to go to agencies for permanent roles. The last time I went to market prior to Covid I had 3 salaried offers, 65k (fully remote via an agency-Cork company), 80k+10% (direct) and 100k flat (direct). TBH I'd happily take a 65k job if it was something I liked at this stage.

HillCloudHop

Work as a HSE doctor, salaries are publicly available.
In retrospect I should have gone into IT.
Higher salary, better lifestyle, relatively low responsibility and no chance of being sued.

floorpie

HillCloudHop wrote: »

Work as a HSE doctor, salaries are publicly available.
In retrospect I should have gone into IT.
Higher salary, better lifestyle, relatively low responsibility and no chance of being sued.

High incidence of burnout and it gets exponentially more difficult to keep skills up to date in IT. Ageism is just accepted in some startup circles. If you lose your job at 55 you could be in deep trouble depending on your previous experience. Competing against half of India and China for local positions. Jobs come and go with economic strength.

Salaries can be good in IT but it's not all roses. A thread on IT wages just a few years ago would have looked very different too.

better lifestyle, relatively low responsibility

If you worked in IT you wouldn't think either of these

mark_jmc

gmisk wrote: »

Do you like it...or are there....lots of ups and downs....

That joke is wrong on many different levels

mark_jmc

mark_jmc wrote: »

That joke is wrong on many different levels

That's a real push button view point.

lawrencesummers

Was asked in an interview about 5 years ago what my salary expectation was. Told them I would need 24 hours to give them an answer which was fine as I was on the shortlist for the role.


Took the figure I was earning at the time, added 10k because of the increased responsibility of the new role and having additional reports. Calculated the cost of the additional commute which included a toll and longer distance and gave them that figure.

They were surprised at it and I got rejected.

4 months later I was asked to apply for the role again, added an additional 15k to my salary expectation and was offered the role.

fits

I genuinely would not like to work as a doctor in Ireland. Unless it was some weird specialism that you could do with relatively normal working hours.

masterboy123

Well, yea, many of my colleagues left Ireland for the same reason.
Working 80 hours a week and getting peanuts.
Luckily I was backed by my family and didn't mind getting the peanuts

fits wrote: »

I genuinely would not like to work as a doctor in Ireland. Unless it was some weird specialism that you could do with relatively normal working hours.

Nonoperational

fits wrote: »

I genuinely would not like to work as a doctor in Ireland. Unless it was some weird specialism that you could do with relatively normal working hours.

Depends. My week is probably close to 60 hours but 12 of them are on call at home. Earn about 100k minimum per year. More earning potential to come. You can dress present things from many angles...

Intern / SHO is tough ya but you clear 50k as a new graduate.

hi!

Nurse and Midwife
5 years qualified
39hr/week
€37,161 gross

BorneTobyWilde

Yay a bragging thread.

BorneTobyWilde

hi! wrote: »

Nurse and Midwife
5 years qualified
39hr/week
€37,161 gross

Any you do twice the work as the man on 120k a year.

onrail

hi! wrote: »

Nurse and Midwife
5 years qualified
39hr/week
€37,161 gross

Is there much overtime on top of that in a typical year?

hi!

onrail wrote: »

Is there much overtime on top of that in a typical year?

Don’t do any overtime it’s not worth it, but made about €8,000 last year on nights shifts and weekends.

PCeeeee

CosmicFool wrote: »

I've been reskilling for a few years now and got a Biotech Production Specialist job. On 72K which includes shift allowance,health care, bonuses etc.

If you don't mind me asking what is a production specialist? What qualifications do you need?

Well done btw.

Paul_Mc1988

PCeeeee wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking what is a production specialist? What qualifications do you need?

Well done btw.

Similar roles would be bioprocess tech, process tech operations tech for the likes of Intel or pfizer etc.

Start wage is about 60k all in which includes everything he listed shift, bonus etc. Hit about 80k after 4 years and 100k after 10. For intel currently you don't even need a degree and they are taking on 1800 people over the next year. A level 6 course in any engineering course or any trade qualification is enough to get you in. The shift work isn't for everyone though.

Deep Thought

KeepItLight wrote: »

Work in data analytics. On 60k a year, which is not bad for Galway. Also an additional 5-6k annually for teaching classes in analytics part time.

Could you recommend an introductory purse?

KeepItLight

Deep Thought wrote: »

Could you recommend an introductory purse?

Assuming you mean course, not purse!

Googling "learn data analytics Ireland" will show results for loads of different taught courses, and some of these include a career center where upon graduation they will vouch for you and send your details directly to employers with whom they have relationships with.

However these courses can be overpriced, and if you just want to learn skills you can do so for a 10th of the price by looking for good self-taught options on places like Udemy or Coursera.

I would suggest having a quick look at the level of experience employers are looking for and then making a decision on which path makes sense for you. The core skills you need if you are going the Udemy/Coursera route are:
1. SQL
2. Data visualisation with Tableau/PowerBI etc..
3. Data analytics/visualisation with Python or R
in that order

Bigmac1euro

floorpie wrote: »

High incidence of burnout and it gets exponentially more difficult to keep skills up to date in IT. Ageism is just accepted in some startup circles. If you lose your job at 55 you could be in deep trouble depending on your previous experience. Competing against half of India and China for local positions. Jobs come and go with economic strength.

Salaries can be good in IT but it's not all roses. A thread on IT wages just a few years ago would have looked very different too.


If you worked in IT you wouldn't think either of these

I moved up and started a role last year. It’s very stressful. I’m in the process of rolling out a project and I am responsible for too much in my opinion.
The project involves installing a software which all our data connections run through. The other day a floor went down in a building and I don’t know why but if it wasn’t covid I’d be responsible for 70 odd people unable to login. My fear is this happens in the future when things go back to normal and I have a whole building unable to work. It’s all on me and I’m struggling to deal with the consequence if it happened. In fact I don’t even want to tell my boss because we are a year into the project and thousands has been spent.
It’s not all rosey in the garden to be honest and now I regret taking on this project. Stress levels are the highest they’ve ever been right now but it’s grand cos I work from home and I earn great money in “I.T”

PCeeeee

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

Similar roles would be bioprocess tech, process tech operations tech for the likes of Intel or pfizer etc.

Start wage is about 60k all in which includes everything he listed shift, bonus etc. Hit about 80k after 4 years and 100k after 10. For intel currently you don't even need a degree and they are taking on 1800 people over the next year. A level 6 course in any engineering course or any trade qualification is enough to get you in. The shift work isn't for everyone though.

Wow.

onrail

hi! wrote: »

Don’t do any overtime it’s not worth it, but made about €8,000 last year on nights shifts and weekends.

Thanks. Would any nurse be taking in just the 37k base or are the nights and weekends obligitary?

micosoft

JimmyVik wrote: »

Turning down anything solely on the basis that it moves you into a higher tax bracket is just being stupid though. You dont have to pay the higher rate of tax on all your salary. Just that part in the higher bracket.


Now if they were turning it down because the extra money is not worth the extra time to them, thats much more rational.

Precisely. Especially given the best and easiest Tax avoidance scheme in the country - voluntary pension contributions.

sReq | uTeK

Senior IT Client Director (Sales really) About 200-250k per year gross depending on targets met and kickers* achieved.



* Commission bonuses that inflate future sales, mostly achievable, sometimes mythical

onrail

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Senior IT Client Director (Sales really) About 200-250k per year gross depending on targets met and kickers achieved.

How in the name of God do you spend all that money??