Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

xboxdad

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

For the MRNA vaccines that means the close contact has a ~95% chance of not contracting covid 19.

How do the numbers look like for AZ & J&J, do you know?

is_that_so

Zipppy wrote: »

Daughter is in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
They started out vaccinations after us, had supply issues, slow start.

Now...daughter 26 getting her vaccine today.
BC just announced phased relaxation of all restrictions over next 3 months..incl masks gone in Sept.
They used very little AZ (dont anymore) and had no J&J.
They were using a 16 week gap for vaccine doses, now reducing to 50 days I gather..
I think we must have taken a wrong turn in the road.

We signed up for the EU distribution model, the best approach IMO. 17m shots go a lot further in a population of 40m than in the EU.

Raphael Picard

Tec Diver wrote: »

Got my vaccine on Monday afternoon. Jensen single shot.
I was fine all evening, then woke up with a banging headache at 4AM, and didn't really sleep after that. Took paracetamol 2HRs before the shot, 2HRs after and just before bed. Took them when I woke up too. They do help.
Almost 40HRs later and I have a "fuzzy" head, but no headache. Never had any kind of fever.

Got my own Janssen shot on Monday morning. Was feeling fine until last night, but now also have the same "fuzzy head" as yourself. No headache or fever either. Will try taking some paracetamol.

km79

Be nice if we could get some indication as to when registration will open for 40-45
Could do with a bit of a boost !

celt262

km79 wrote: »

Be nice if we could get some indication as to when registration will open for 40-45
Could do with a bit of a boost !

I'm just thinking that myself if it's next week fair enough but let the people know!

is_that_so

km79 wrote: »

Be nice if we could get some indication as to when registration will open for 40-45
Could do with a bit of a boost !

It is expected that registration for the vaccination programme for those aged 40-45 will open next week.

Russman

is_that_so wrote: »

It is expected that registration for the vaccination programme for those aged 40-45 will open next week.

This 47 year old hopes that means they'll be getting round to him soon

Elessar

Any ideas about the 35-39 age group timelines?

is_that_so

Elessar wrote: »

Any ideas about the 35-39 age group timelines?

Mid June now one would guess.

timsey tiger

How did the people in the 45-49 group do, who signed up for the vaccine around 11pm Tuesday, was there any advantage to getting in early or was it strictly age based like the hse claimed?

is_that_so

timsey tiger wrote: »

How did the people in the 45-49 group do, who signed up for the vaccine around 11pm Tuesday, was there any advantage to getting in early or was it strictly age based like the hse claimed?

The appointments thread might give you some indicators, a few 40 somethings already have them.

Lumen

timsey tiger wrote: »

How did the people in the 45-49 group do, who signed up for the vaccine around 11pm Tuesday, was there any advantage to getting in early or was it strictly age based like the hse claimed?

There's no way of knowing but myself and spouse registered around 8.30pm on Tue 18th, she (49) was called from backup list on Sunday morning, I'm still waiting (46).

It seems to be fairly strictly age based within each MVC.

drunkmonkey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You have stepped into a snippet of detail in the wrong context.

The timelines quoted above are where each vaccine reaches full effectiveness. For the MRNA vaccines that means the close contact has a ~95% chance of not contracting covid 19. There is no public health basis for testing and isolating people who only have a ~5% chance of suffering a breakthrough infection. Particularly when breakthrough infections are more likely to be cases of incredibly mild / asymptomatic disease.

It' has to be more than 5% now, the positivity in close contacts increased from 12% to 35% with the UK variant by February, I'm seeing figures the indian strain is possibly 20% more transmissible than the UK variant, wouldn't logic dictate that the 5% chance in the vaccinated has now shifted above the pre February odds in the unvaccinated of catching it via a close contact taking into account increased transmission and slightly increased vaccine evasion.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Zipppy wrote: »

Daughter is in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
They started out vaccinations after us, had supply issues, slow start.

Now...daughter 26 getting her vaccine today.
BC just announced phased relaxation of all restrictions over next 3 months..incl masks gone in Sept.
They used very little AZ (dont anymore) and had no J&J.
They were using a 16 week gap for vaccine doses, now reducing to 50 days I gather..
I think we must have taken a wrong turn in the road.

There is one huge difference. Uptake in Ireland has been close to 100%.

I was comparing with Canada and in BC it’s running at about 83% for the older age groups and dropping steeply as you go down the ages and hesitancy increased.

Those uptake rates make a big difference to how fast down the age groups you get, but coverage is poorer.

They’ve also done very few second doses.

Bear in mind we had a very hard spike here earlier this year and we are also exposed to the UK with an open border, so second doses have been a higher priority.

Also their normalisation plan is aiming for September, which is similar to here.

We will reach 80%+ by July sometime but they’re being conservative about messaging largely because of unknown issues about variants.

The largest % of vaccines used here are Pfizer/BioNTech (by a long shot).

The online trackers are also inaccurate here at the moment and stopped on 11 May due the HSE hack.

We’ve passed 2.5 million doses.

Elessar

If you can't make your initial appointment for a vaccine, can you reschedule?

Zipppy

Zipppy wrote: »

Daughter is in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
They started out vaccinations after us, had supply issues, slow start.

Now...daughter 26 getting her vaccine today.
BC just announced phased relaxation of all restrictions over next 3 months..incl masks gone in Sept.
They used very little AZ (dont anymore) and had no J&J.
They were using a 16 week gap for vaccine doses, now reducing to 50 days I gather..
I think we must have taken a wrong turn in the road.

Our highly conservative 4 week interval between doses is definitely a factor here.

RavenBea17b

is_that_so wrote: »

It was down to the AZ supply shambles, plus a bit of aping of the UK. It mostly really only affected HCWs. They'll be up over the next 4 weeks for their second dose.

Ah, I see, I get it about the AZ supply issue, but aping of the UK - in what way...
It is set for a max of 12 weeks there, but is roughly within 10.5 weeks. - which they are amending in the 'hotspots'. Second doses for all vaccines are so important.

RavenBea17b

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not self-pitying. I've been professionally and financially unaffected by the pandemic, as I was already WFH. I do though appreciate the incredible sacrifice that the young have made for the old.

Anyway, if the medium-old people don't get AZ then it'll go unused, which will result in a slower rollout and more infection and death - that's the public health rationale. Use all available vaccines.

As for the vaccine effectiveness, AFAIK one dose of AZ gives good protection against the Indian variant after a few weeks, so I don't see the problem. The 30% efficacy was only after three weeks, and it has been known from the earliest studies that AZ protection takes at least 5 weeks to reach maximum effectiveness.

I postd a twitter thread from Mac n Chise earlier on. Interesting thread as it discussed the Indian variant and how the vaccines Pfizer and AZ are so far working against this variant, with he expectation that both will increase to over 90% effective, based on earlier modelling and similar variant behaviour.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Flying Fox wrote: »

Our highly conservative 4 week interval between doses is definitely a factor here.

Given the risks here with exposure to the Indian variant and the UK variant being the endemic one, I disagree.

We’ll have solid immunity here very rapidly. We’ve also huge and very solid supply chains, particularly of Pfizer / BioNTech.

km79

is_that_so wrote: »

It is expected that registration for the vaccination programme for those aged 40-45 will open next week.

Where did you see that ? Last I seen was end of this week but I doubt that’s the case now

stephenjmcd

km79 wrote: »

Where did you see that ? Last I seen was end of this week but I doubt that’s the case now

This mornings Irish times.

The only reference that was made previously to end of this week was that they'd announce it.

Would suspect it'll be announced tomorrow given the HSE are due to announce the latest operational update with the expectation it'll mention 400k per week in June

FuzzyThinking

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Given the risks here with exposure to the Indian variant and the UK variant being the endemic one, I disagree.

We’ll have solid immunity here very rapidly. We’ve also huge and very solid supply chains, particularly of Pfizer / BioNTech.

It's a balancing act, but right now the vast majority of under 50s have not even had one dose, so they have no protection at all from the Indian variant.

The English study concluded that a first dose alone was less effective against the Indian variant than it is against others, in terms of preventing infection. However, the data set was too small to determine how well it protects against severe illness and death. So far, we know that the vaccines with lower headline figures for efficacy do still protect against severe illness and death, even against the variants, so it's likely that would also be the case here.

I think a 6 or 7 week gap is more than reasonable.

christy c

km79 wrote: »

Where did you see that ? Last I seen was end of this week but I doubt that’s the case now

In this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/state-hits-2-5-million-vaccinations-earlier-than-expected-1.4575202%3fmode=amp

MikeSoys

so as covid-19 mutates its getting more dangerous? as every 6 months or so a new strain is in play where the vaccines are less effective .

eoinbn

Deliveries have been updated for last week.

Pfizer/Bio - 1,886,040 (+183k)
Astrazeneca - 626,000 (+27k)
Moderna - 283,200 (+65k) - must include this weeks delivery
Janssen - 61,200 (+16.8k)

Gile_na_gile

stephenjmcd wrote: »

This mornings Irish times.

The only reference that was made previously to end of this week was that they'd announce it.

Would suspect it'll be announced tomorrow given the HSE are due to announce the latest operational update with the expectation it'll mention 400k per week in June

The closer we (40-44) get, the slower it seems to go. That would indicate registration opening Sunday night for Monday, and I see also Pairc Uí Chaoimh is stopping for two days and they were the ones really blazing ahead with some appointments for 46 year olds reported on the other thread. It was on that basis plus the ample supplies I was predicting Thursday opening registration.

loup

Elessar wrote: »

If you can't make your initial appointment for a vaccine, can you reschedule?

Yes there is an option on the text you get to reply 'New' and you get a rescheduled date.

gozunda

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

The closer we (40-44) get, the slower it seems to go. That would indicate registration opening Sunday night for Monday, and I see also Pairc Uí Chaoimh is stopping for two days and they were the ones really blazing ahead with some appointments for 46 year olds reported on the other thread. It was on that basis plus the ample supplies I was predicting Thursday opening registration.

Part of the issue is the large numbers in the 40-49 age cohort. That plus those missed from previous age groups now being vaccinated and second doses which are in train atm

whisky_galore

Where giving the perpetrators an extrajudicial hiding is justified imo.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/vandals-hit-marquees-used-to-vaccinate-at-risk-people-in-meath-1132867.html

RavenBea17b

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Thanks

And jaysus @ the stories on there re: the side effects after the second shot of Moderna

A needed sacrifice I suppose and they seem to pass eventually from what I'm reading there

Another thing is - reading between the lines - some of those talking about side effects on there have obviously never got Travel vaccines or similar in their lives

1-3 days of feeling a bit weird/fatigued, especially in the arm you got the shot, is normal

Yes, I remember getting my yellow fever jab - knocked me out for weeks. Had my first covid jab, bit of a tender injection site, tired and flu like, two days later, much more bright and one step closer to our new Covid freedom, yeah!!!

salmocab

gozunda wrote: »

Part of the issue is the large numbers in the 40-49 age cohort. That plus those missed from previous age groups now being vaccinated and second doses which are in train atm

Yeah I’d think a bit of breathing space to catch up on some missed ones and maybe take some slack up from Center’s that aren’t doing as well is a good idea.

dashoonage

whisky_galore wrote: »

Where giving the perpetrators an extrajudicial hiding is justified imo.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/vandals-hit-marquees-used-to-vaccinate-at-risk-people-in-meath-1132867.html

if the shinners had won these lads would be straight before the army council.

Widescreen

Re Astra Zeneca vaccine.

I heard efficacy of this is not good enough against Indian variant.

I think UK or possibly somewhere else are suggesting that the 2nd dose for anyone who has had first dose of AZ should be pfizer biontech.

Anyone verify this, thanks.

Widescreen

Widescreen wrote: »

Re Astra Zeneca vaccine.

I heard efficacy of this is not good enough against Indian variant.

I think UK or possibly somewhere else are suggesting that the 2nd dose for anyone who has had first dose of AZ should be pfizer biontech.

Anyone verify this, thanks.

No, because its not true

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210525/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-indian-variant-study

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The Irish population is unusually big in the middle. Our boomer era is basically late 1970s to mid 1980s. That contrasts to North America, where that bulge is in their 60s and 70s.
The 35-45 group in particular is huge.

That’s also a reason why you’ll see a difference in exact age of rollout.

Populations aren’t all the same shape.

Widescreen

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because its not true

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210525/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-indian-variant-study

Thanks, perhaps it is being suggested due to the 25% better efficacy in Pfizer.

Are those percentages about getting the virus at all? Or protection against hospitalisation, serious illness & death?

Lumen

Widescreen wrote: »

I think UK or possibly somewhere else are suggesting that the 2nd dose for anyone who has had first dose of AZ should be pfizer biontech.

Alan Kelly thinks this is a good idea.

That's good enough for me. I don't need science, in AK47 I trust.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

One point I would make is we’ve access to large numbers of Pfizer/BioNTech doses later this year.

If, and it’s not looking very likely, that there’s a need for a booster with mRNA vaccines for people who got viral vector types, it looks very feasible we could do a 3rd shot, even with a potentially updated version.

At present there’s nothing to suggest that’s needed, but the contingency is there in terms of supplies.

We’ve also got 4.9 million doses available per year for 2022 and 2023 as boosters too. They could never be needed, or could be updated to contain mRNA for new strains.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because its not true

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210525/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccines-indian-variant-study

What do you think of the HSE not testing the vaccinated, I reckon the Yankees cases prove it's still useful if asymptomatic spread is still happening, https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/20/health/yankees-covid-19-breakthrough-infections/index.html it's the J&J they had.

Widescreen

Widescreen wrote: »

Thanks, perhaps it is being suggested due to the 25% better efficacy in Pfizer.

Are those percentages about getting the virus at all? Or protection against hospitalisation, serious illness & death?

The study authors said the different effectiveness of the vaccines after two doses might be explained by the earlier rollout of the Pfizer vaccine.

.

marno21

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you think of the HSE not testing the vaccinated, I reckon the Yankees cases prove it's still useful if asymptomatic spread is still happening, https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/20/health/yankees-covid-19-breakthrough-infections/index.html it's the J&J they had.

There is little point in testing vaccinated people for SARS-CoV-2 RNA in their noses if we have a high level of confidence that a) the risk of infection is low and b) the risk of transmission is low.

The article actually agrees with this. 8 of the 9 “cases” were asymptomatic, and secondly, they had been vaccinated with the Janssen vaccine which is the least efficacious and the trials showed it takes more than 14 days to reach full efficacy.

Freaky

Got my second AZ dose today in Kerry. Nearly didnt get it, I work in healthcare and many of my coworkers were getting appointments, rang the HSE to see if mine was scheduled soon and they said that I had half an hour to get to my appointment. They said they had the correct mobile number but it was in the wrong format (?), hence why I wasnt notified. The nurse who jabbed me said she had heard similar stories. So no harm to ring them and check if you think you are due your second jab and havent heard from them! I had some worries about getting the second one but now that it is finished its a great feeling

ddarcy

Widescreen wrote: »

Re Astra Zeneca vaccine.

I heard efficacy of this is not good enough against Indian variant.

I think UK or possibly somewhere else are suggesting that the 2nd dose for anyone who has had first dose of AZ should be pfizer biontech.

Anyone verify this, thanks.

A number of countries are doing this now: Spain, France, Germany. There is also a clinical trial ongoing in the UK and they are starting to give results from that (although it’s mainly the side effects are a bit worse but efficacy is good without any real numbers). Spain also did a clinical trial and basically said the same thing.

This is a decent article, also points to problems with AZ as continual dosing becomes less effective (why they are doing clinical trials with the third jab for AZ right now)

[url] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3[/url]

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The BIG advantage of the mRNA vaccines is the delivery system isn’t biological, so your immune system doesn’t see it and it gets the mRNA code into cells effectively.

The viral vector vaccines use a virus - a biological vector to carry code. That’s something your immune system does see and can decide to take action against, making it less and less effective with subsequent doses.

You could end up basically being vaccinated against the viral vector.

missmelo

Has anybody here seen the studies on the animal trials for this vaccine?

Do you know if you have antibodies if you are protected without the vaccine? As in if you already had covid.

Are we in a live trial as per what luke o Neill stated?
I know 2 people who have died from this vaccine and I'm not willing to go into a trial without full and informed consent.

timsey tiger

missmelo wrote: »

Has anybody here seen the studies on the animal trials for this vaccine?

Do you know if you have antibodies if you are protected without the vaccine? As in if you already had covid.

Are we in a live trial as per what luke o Neill stated?
I know 2 people who have died from this vaccine and I'm not willing to go into a trial without full and informed consent.

You know of two people or you know two people?

JDD

missmelo wrote: »

Has anybody here seen the studies on the animal trials for this vaccine?

Do you know if you have antibodies if you are protected without the vaccine? As in if you already had covid.

Are we in a live trial as per what luke o Neill stated?
I know 2 people who have died from this vaccine and I'm not willing to go into a trial without full and informed consent.

When you say "this vaccine" which brand do you mean.

And really? You know two people who died from the vaccine? In Ireland?

seamus

missmelo wrote: »

Has anybody here seen the studies on the animal trials for this vaccine?

You can inspect them yourself:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-data-preclinical-studies-mrna

Do you know if you have antibodies if you are protected without the vaccine? As in if you already had covid.

Maybe. You are protected for a certain amount of time, but there is insufficient data to tell if this protection is long-term.

Are we in a live trial as per what luke o Neill stated?

No. Data is collected on all medicines after approval so that any unforeseen issues can be picked up and accounted for in the general population.
This doesn't make it a "live trial" any more than people driving cars are participating in beta testing.

I know 2 people who have died from this vaccine

No, you don't.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Given the huge, population wide rollout we are actually having very very few side effects overall.

If you look at any medication (or even food) you’ll have a small % of allergic reactions.

The clotting issue with the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines is small but significant and has been mitigated against in a very conservative way.

Overall they seem extremely safe.

I don’t mean to make this seem trivial, but you can eat a sandwich with some ingredient that you don’t know you’re highly allergic to and have huge reactions, never mind a vaccine.

Does that mean we just ban sandwiches? Nope - that would be ridiculous.

You can’t entirely eliminate all risk from anything you’re consuming or injecting, but they’ve come very close to that.

GLaDOS

They're opening another vaccination centre in UCD (I've seen the signs in the car park). Was that part of the original planned centres, or is it in addition? I don't remember it being mentioned before.