Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

xboxdad

Did they actually start vaccinating the 49 year olds yet?
When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

mossie

xboxdad wrote: »

Did they actually start vaccinating the 49 year olds yet?
When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

2 of my colleagues, both 49, due to be vaccinated tomorrow.

Lumen

xboxdad wrote: »

When do we think they complete vaccinating the 45-49 age group (with 1st dose)?

I reckon it'll be around the end of next week, with some regional variation.

snotboogie

mikeorange wrote: »

Your presuming all the infected used Sinovac in Seychelles for your comparison to UK?

When its closer to 50/50 split Sinovac/AZ used in Seychelles

1st dose of AZ is very poor against variants and Seychelles have only given most 1st dose there. Seychelles I believe has alot SA variant there.

No I didn't. In fact I said the Seychelles is poor example which the media have latched to. Bahrain is a better case study because it has a far larger population and its easy to contrast with its neighbour Qatar using only Pfizer.

mikeorange

snotboogie wrote: »

No I didn't. In fact I said the Seychelles is poor example which the media have latched to. Bahrain is a better case study because it has a far larger population and its easy to contrast with its neighbour Qatar using only Pfizer.

Fair enough but you can only compare apples to apples.Seychelles needs to be studied on its own, to figure it out, which has been overblown anyway, with very little of the vaccinated getting sick and ending up in hospital.

Huge mistake locking down again there when 80% adults have been vaccinated and they are not being hospitalised, should just let.people grt exposed and let virus run its course and get t cell protection from.exposure. We better not do the same this winter as cases inevitably rise, we cant piss ourselves and got back to lockdown like Seychelles

FrankN1

For those with a BMI that is over 35 that will receive the vaccine via a GP, which vaccine is most likely?

FrankN1

FrankN1 wrote: »

For those with a BMI that is over 35 that will receive the vaccine via a GP, which vaccine is most likely?

Pfizer

Vic987

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

If you look at the technology behind the vaccines, it’s fairly clear that more likely ones to be successful are those using novel or modern techniques to create an expression of the spike proteins on cells to build immunity.

RNA viruses of this type have been notoriously difficult to develop vaccines for. That’s why I would suspect the initial Chinese vaccines aren’t performing well. They’re based, as far as I am aware, on similar technology to most flu vaccines - using attenuated viruses / killed virus particles.

If those had worked, then we would be using them for vaccination against similar RNA viruses as it’s straight forward technology. However, they haven’t worked in the past with this and it seems to me like the results they’re achieving are patchy.

The direct mRNA vaccines take a totally new approach and the viral vector ones like Janssen and AstraZeneca achieve a similar expression of spike proteins, just with a different methodology.

They both rely heavily on extremely advanced biotechnology that’s only recently available and the mRNA vaccines are making use of a very advanced delivery system involving engineered balls of fat molecules that act nearly like an artificially built virus to carry mRNA into cells - essentially a nanotechnology of a sort.

The viral vector vaccines achieve the same spike protein expression, but do it using a modified natural virus to carry the instructions. So you’ve an extra step involving a live, basically harmless, virus. This I suspect is probably why you’re getting some of the obscure side effects showing up with these more than with the mRNA approach.

The brief and limited expression of the spike protein on some of your cells, allows your immune system to develop an extremely focused response to the spike, which acts like a key for the virus to enter a very specific ACE2 receptor in your cells.

That’s like Achilles’ heal for the virus as it’s an extremely complicated bit of evolution that is like a key that fits into a lock. If the spike changes significantly, it’s very hard for the virus to come up with an alternative solution to access the ACE2 receptors. So it in theory should find it quite hard to get past that.

It could come up with better ways of evading the immune system, but it’s still a very awkward thing for it to achieve.

With vaccines that use broken up or attenuated viruses, your immune system is likely to just become responsive to any number of random aspects of the proteins, not just the spike.

So the virus has lots of opportunities to escape immunity and RNA viruses aren’t that stable so evolve quickly.

That’s why I would suspect the Chinese vaccines aren’t very effective.

The mRNA vaccines are just extremely impressive technology and a huge breakthrough that I think will potentially change medicine in a very positive way in a lot of areas - they may lead to vaccinations for hugely problematic viruses like HIV and also areas of cancer treatment.

The viral vector platforms also show huge potential.

I just can’t really see how a traditional vaccine approach like the Chinese one could really be successful though. It doesn’t make sense that it wouldn’t already have been useful for SARS etc if it were. The tech was tried - it’s the very first thing anyone would try as that’s how many vaccines are made.

We didn’t end up with this very new approach just for the craic. It was used because the traditional approaches haven’t every worked very well with this kind of virus.

Really good post.

Are you speculating that tradition vaccine technology could never have worked against Coronavirus or is that a theory taking hold?

With vaccines that use broken up or attenuated viruses, your immune system is likely to just become responsive to any number of random aspects of the proteins, not just the spike.

Why would this not mean the vaccine is more likely to be effective against variants?
As things stand, if there is a choice I am leaning towards a traditional choice such as the Valneva vaccine partially because I hope to avoid annual boosters for the new variants.

We didn’t end up with this very new approach just for the craic. It was used because the traditional approaches haven’t every worked very well with this kind of virus.

Do you not think it was because these techniques were being developed anyway and they took the opportunity to test the theory?
I agree that the possibilities in treating cancer etc are very exciting.

drunkmonkey

Vic987 wrote: »

As things stand, if there is a choice I am leaning towards a traditional choice such as the Valneva vaccine partially because I hope to avoid annual boosters for the new variants.

I like the sound of that one, I see the UK has booked 100 million doses if the next trial is as successful. Not having to have constant boosters or worry about variants is the idea scenario hopefully it can deliver.
I assume our guys have gone all in on Pfizer so we'd have to travel somewhere to get it privately.

Micky 32

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

Deeper Blue

Micky 32 wrote: »

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

"Public health expert" my hole

Also I love how they quote the Sunday hospital numbers to make the article extra scary. Gold star for the examiner.

Turtwig

Micky 32 wrote: »

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

No fan of Ryan but what has he said here that's problematic? Apart from maybe restrictions on UK flights.

Micky 32

Turtwig wrote: »

No fan of Ryan but what has he said here that's problematic? Apart from maybe restrictions on UK flights.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hmmzis

Vic987 wrote: »

Really good post.

Are you speculating that tradition vaccine technology could never have worked against Coronavirus or is that a theory taking hold?



Why would this not mean the vaccine is more likely to be effective against variants?
As things stand, if there is a choice I am leaning towards a traditional choice such as the Valneva vaccine partially because I hope to avoid annual boosters for the new variants.



Do you not think it was because these techniques were being developed anyway and they took the opportunity to test the theory?
I agree that the possibilities in treating cancer etc are very exciting.

If I may add my 0.02c to this.

The one type of traditional vaccine, inactivated whole virus with alum adjuvant, used by Chinese manufacturers is known to be a very poor inducer of T cells, the other type of traditional vaccine is an attenuated virus - that one is excellent at inducing T cells.

With coronaviruses in general immune responses to the whole live virus are somewhat poor(ish) when comparing to other types of viruses (i.e. measles). It looks to be sufficient though.

With that in mind, all approved vaccines work just fine, the inactivated with alum adjuvant just are less potent at stimulating a robust immune response (see phase 1/2 data) - lack of measurable T cell responses, low nAB titers and low binding AB titers. But even that is apparently good enough to keep you out of hospital.

The mRNA and viral vector vaccines are much better at inducing a broad and robust immune response, therefore getting a much better outright infection prevention rate on top of keeping you out of hospital.

The difference on a population level would be in the ratio of vaccinated people required to avoid epidemic growth of case numbers and hospitalizations. In both cases outbreaks are still possible, but the limit of where they cannot be naturally sustained would be different for the two vaccine approaches.

Turtwig

Micky 32 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

What has Ryan said that is quoted in that article that is problematic?

Hurrache

Micky 32 wrote: »

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

You want to ignore everything from now on, stay off the internet.

Micky 32

Turtwig wrote: »

What has Ryan said that is quoted in that article that is problematic?

Where did i say anything about your friend Mr Ryan? I’m reffering to the usual headlines. “ even among the vaccinated “. Can give the impression to people vaccines are no good.

dominatinMC

Turtwig wrote: »

No fan of Ryan but what has he said here that's problematic? Apart from maybe restrictions on UK flights.

"says there is also an increased risk of re-infection"
There is always a risk to something we don't know, but at this point in time, where is the evidence for this statement? I haven't seen it in the UK data, not yet anyway..

Micky 32

Hurrache wrote: »

You want to ignore everything from now on, stay off the internet.

No, the media should be called out.

revelman

300,000 vaccinations administered last week.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0524/1223577-ireland-covid-vaccines/

Cork2021

Micky 32 wrote: »

No, the media should be called out.

Few on here just don’t want this to end! They’ll agree with the cult that is ISAG. How people can’t see what is wrong with that article is beyond me. Ryan isn’t a public health expert, he is not an epidemiologist, he is not a virologist etc! He’s a person I seriously dislike and I’m sure a lot more dislike him, along with Aoife McLysaght! She’s an other tool that hasn’t a notion and isn’t a public health expert!
These headlines need to stop unless there’s serious concern but yet we still get these muppets getting air and articles in the papers!
They need to fûck off.
VACCINES WORK!!!!!

tamova

Hi all, does anyone know if its possible to get the second dose of Pfizer early? Mines was delayed by 2 weeks, and I have to relocate four days before my second dose comes...

Deeper Blue

dominatinMC wrote: »

"says there is also an increased risk of re-infection"
There is always a risk to something we don't know, but at this point in time, where is the evidence for this statement? I haven't seen it in the UK data, not yet anyway..

This is Tomas Ryan we're talking about here, he doesn't do evidence

Micky 32

Cork2021 wrote: »

Few on here just don’t want this to end! They’ll agree with the cult that is ISAG. How people can’t see what is wrong with that article is beyond me. Ryan isn’t a public health expert, he is not an epidemiologist, he is not a virologist etc! He’s a person I seriously dislike and I’m sure a lot more dislike him, along with Aoife McLysaght! She’s an other tool that hasn’t a notion and isn’t a public health expert!
These headlines need to stop unless there’s serious concern but yet we still get these muppets getting air and articles in the papers!
They need to fûck off.
VACCINES WORK!!!!!

When you get headlines saying “ Indian Variant will spread easily even among vaccinated “ doesn’t send a good message to people who are on the fence about getting the vaccine. They could say “ what’s the point if it still spreads so easily even when vaccinated “

Furze99

I'm sure discussed already but as I understand the HSE policy, it's that older age groups are at higher risk and should be vaccinated in that order. So as it stands, it seems that most ordinary citizens in the 60-69 age bracket will not be considered fully vaccinated till may be the end of August. This due to the 3 month gap between AZ doses. Whilst those in their 50s and even some 40s may be fully vaccinated by the end of June with a one month gap between Pfizer doses.

How does this make sense from the overall public health strategy? Given that one dose of either is only c 30% effective against new strains going around. This would appear to be illogical as an older cohort is disproportionately exposed to risk. Trouble coming down the tracks for the powers that be? What bright sparks thought this was a good idea?

ACitizenErased

Just got my first dose of Pfizer, easiest experience you’ll ever have. Back in 4 weeks for the second.

Cork2021

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Just got my first dose of Pfizer, easiest experience you’ll ever have. Back in 4 weeks for the second.

Where did you get it? Any queues?

ACitizenErased

Cork2021 wrote: »

Where did you get it? Any queues?

From my GP in Cork City. About 50-60 people here both waiting before and after their jabs and they’re flying through it, got it bang on time.

landofthetree

Micky 32 wrote: »

Do they ever give up FFS

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40296953.html

The most anti-vax people are the government and "experts" at this stage.

They are a joke.

Polar101

Furze99 wrote: »

How does this make sense from the overall public health strategy? Given that one dose of either is only c 30% effective against new strains going around.

Not commenting whether the strategy is a good one or not.

- The option would have been to wait until more Pfizer supplies arrive - that would have left the higher risk groups without any vaccine at all for weeks longer.
- AZ/J&J are age limited, so not using them would have delayed the program even more
- Assuming you're talking about the Indian variant, well that data wasn't available 1-2 months ago.