Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121930524#Comment_121930524

Why are you excluding self builds

Greyian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932556#Comment_121932556

Exactly. This came up before in another thread and someone tried to explain it along the lines of we don't know why they are coming back, so they should be discounted.

Ireland has always experienced emigration, its nothing new and the levels aren't unusual at all. If anything, it's the level of people returning which is higher than normal (compared to the long term), which doesn't paint a picture of a country which is driving people away.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932711#Comment_121932711

Because there not built for general sale or rent

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932947#Comment_121932947

Is there a high probability that they are leaving because it's very difficult to start out in life in Ireland due to lack of and price of rentals

If we are educating to a high standard should we have an environment where those graduates have the opportunity to begin adult life in Ireland.

If we are loosing our well trained graduates for curca 25% of their working life, that is also a significant cost to the state

Yes I'm against rent controls, they bring in the pull up the ladder phenomenon to the rental market with each iteration making it worse for new entrants. It has done so much damage it'll take years to fix

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121930812#Comment_121930812

The reason for a significant increase in emigration in '23 and it will continue into '24 is due to COVID. Just like going to college is seen as a right of passage by young people so is travelling.

Locally a significant number of young people have DECIDED to travel since Covid restrictions ended. Take for example Jack Barry the Kerry footballer at 29 he decided he wS going travelling ( I think to Australia) from the end of last year.

I have a nephew 23 years old gone to Australia, he a plumber. He said to his father if he dose not like it he be back in two years, if he dose it will be 8-10 years. He is on 2.5k Aussie dollars ( about 1500 euro a week) accommodation is costing 500 dollars (300) a week. My better halfs nice and her bf travelled last year to Australia for 6 months they arrived back in February

A couple friendly with my eldest lad travelled last year. They left Christmas 2022 and retired Christmas 2023. My own youngest lad was surfing in France last summer from June-September. He travelled to Central America in Octo er and is heading into Peru now. He is back the end of April God willing.

Another two friends of my eldest were and are in Canada with there gf. One is back after 12 months and the other is back during the summer to start building.

Along with my eldest lad the lads in Canada and the lad that travelled all last year, all are doing self builds. There is another friend of my young lad that is in Liverpool, he is there 4-5 years as his gf was training to be a nurse there, guess what he is coming home in the next 12 months, he has a site bought and is looking for planning permission.

Will some stay away ya about 1 in 4-5. I know one lad that has gone ( fairly useless lad tbh) and he is talking about getting citizenship out in Australian.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933095#Comment_121933095

Self builds are a significant section within the market especially as at present they are mostly being build by FTB and in non urban locations are a serious option if you have a bit of get up and go

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933137#Comment_121933137

Unfortunately we are moving more and more to the left in politics.

Ironically Ireland is not a great place to live if you are part of middle Ireland. You educate yourself to try not be a burden on the State but you can't survive hence the reason for some people who emigrate.

If you rely on the State you are housed etc. I completely agree rent controls are a big factor in the current situation.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933516#Comment_121933516

Perhaps the middle class that are not unhappy, are those that don’t feel sorry for themselves, and don’t expect the State to help them so much.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933368#Comment_121933368

Self build is an absolute dose

From dealing with obtuse planning to having to deal with shyster builders

And jumping through hoops to get a mortgage

If you are in the business it can be ok, for the ftb, run

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933639#Comment_121933639

The middle class who are unhappy are those who see waste of taxes with not at least equal benefit to those compared to those who contribute less or even nothing to the states tax take.

I personally would prefer I have some control over how our taxes are spent. I don't have an issue paying for something even via taxes, what I do have an issue with is paying for the same thing multiple times through multiple taxes.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933699#Comment_121933699

Control over how taxes are spent?

Paying for the same thing multiple times? Can you flesh this out

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933699#Comment_121933699

You want the State to give less to those who cannot afford it, and give more to those who can?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933713#Comment_121933713

I pay tax for my own healthcare.

I pay tax to pay for other's healthcare.

Then I pay health insurance on top.

Great country.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933895#Comment_121933895

You pay health insurance to skip queues.

If you had to pay full price for medical treatments or medications you receive like in the US, you would realise the true cost of healthcare.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933683#Comment_121933683

Certain FTBs might not have that choice. In a properly functioning market self-builds ought to be statistical noise.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933989#Comment_121933989

What is a “properly functioning market”?

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933713#Comment_121933713

Income tax is deducted before I am paid. At least with VAT I can choose if I pay it be deciding if I want to purchase the good/service.

Does all road tax, fuel tax and other transport related taxes go towards infrastructure?

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933714#Comment_121933714

Where did I say that? Try reading my post rather than seeing what you want to see in a post!

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934101#Comment_121934101

You can decide not to pay income tax by not working

It doesn't explain why you think you should decide where the tax goes

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934012#Comment_121934012

One where supply and demand are in balance, where this is turnover, where people can buy and sell

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934418#Comment_121934418

You think supply and demand are the only variables in a functioning market?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933895#Comment_121933895

And you have reaped the benefits of others tax too, education, infra, people in Ireland

That's why you pay tax

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934411#Comment_121934411

I can't decide not to work. Deciding not to work is one of the reasons we are where we are at the moment. To bring this back on topic the property sector is the way it is because people choose either not to work or earn extra income at the risk of losing housing benefits.

If I contribute to society via tax then its natural to expect an input in how that contribution is used. Have we become a communist state?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934915#Comment_121934915

You don't live in a totalitarian state. You have a huge input in how that contribution is used, its called voting in an election. Who you vote for decides where your contribution is spent.

If nobody currently running for office represents your views then you can run for election yourself to try and get your policies enacted. If your views are actually popular with people you'll get elected and get to do so.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934915#Comment_121934915

You're really overestimating how many people are "choosing" not to work. As a % of the overall working population, it's very small, and let's also be honest, Irish people are great at complaining about people scamming the system, but they won't lift a finger to report them.

I do agree that our immigration policy has completely lost control and changes need to be made.

shoegirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916297#Comment_121916297

In some cases, yes. Not all lenders require this though. But most people will believe they need it and just not look at 1 beds.

Before you say how I know this - I went to the trouble of saving 20% for a 1 bed only to be told by PTSB when I applied that they don't apply it in Dublin and major metropolitan areas where demand is high. Had I know this I could have bought 2 years earlier.

Also this didn't apply until after the crash. There was always some demand for 1 beds. So demand is artificially damped by lenders policies & Central Bank policy until a few years ago (NOT govt policy). But the perception that 20% is required (even where most lenders don't actually apply that) will drive the buyers who could benefit most from these away. Also, if its 240k for a 2 bed in a development where 1 beds are typically 200k, most borrowers would prefer to look at the 2 beds once they've saved 24k in a deposit rather than wait till they have 40k plus transaction costs.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934915#Comment_121934915

You have a fundamentally incorrect understanding of why the property market is the way it is - it has almost nothing to do with "people refusing to work". If you believe that, you have been absolutely bamboozled by government propaganda

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936463#Comment_121936463

I would say facebook and youtube "alternative" media.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936506#Comment_121936506

A difference without a distinction if it led to the same conclusion I suppose. Internet freethinker scholars mega-minding themselves into cheering for the status quo

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121935369#Comment_121935369

Your narrative is the biggest con pulled on the general public you can vote for whoever you want or stand for election will you give over our political system is nepatism on steroids its who you know or who's your daddy and nothing gets done. Politicians spin and lie to get voted in and then never follow through and why would they when there is no ramifications for them if they clock watch with a l'oriel pension waiting for them after 5 years, why would you bother. Until a mechanism is brought in that what a politician is paid via their pension is linked to what they get done with regard to promises made when they get voted in there will be no change here. So lets be clear the bog standard worker ant here has little or no say in where our money is spent you only have to look at the various areas where money has been wasted to see this, one that is very relevant is RTE, or say the recapitalizing banks, or the HSE constant over spend with worse results, Children's hospital overspend anyone? Do I need to go on with this list of money paid out by the state that not one voter in their right mind would of voted to pay (its very very long list).The best a voter can do is pick the best of a bad bunch.

L1011

This isn't the politics forum