The Irish protocol.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119778322#Comment_119778322

The UK has done nothing but fold since 2016 but somehow, sending some anti-tank weapons to the other side of the continent will make the EU fold.

Reminds me of the time when Ireland was going to be ejected. Any day now for nearly 7 years.

Grassey

Got a chuckle from this earlier.

Capt'n Midnight

If the DUP force an election or worse then they own the consequences.

If they end up with a similar number of seats then it's been a waste of everyone's time. This is the best outcome for them.

If they end up smaller than the UUP , they won't have to worry about being co-equal minister. Wasn't it St Andrews where the DUP got the rules changed so that the biggest party got FM, not the biggest party in the biggest group ? No one to blame but themselves.

If they end up being the biggest party then the clear message to everyone else is that they won't play unless they get to win. What's the point of Stormont then, why should everyone else bother.

They might trigger direct rule again, but with Dublin being listened to more than previously.

They are doing nothing to reduce the likelihood of a border poll.

AdrianG08

Struggling to see what leverage the DUP really have here.

Refuse to power share, then theres an election, if result is same again, its direct rule (with input from Dublin) which they also do not want.

In fairness, I actually think the DUP are running scared of the hardline loyalist element, who seem to exert influence over them, a bit like the ERG in the UK, albeit for different reasons. I'd imagine the majority of DUP MP's and MLA's are ok with the protocol in essence, but seeing the reaction of certain factions on the ground has given them the incentive to be seen to be fighting it tooth and nail.

Always thought the likes of Donaldson, Foster and Co. coupled with loyalist mouthpiece Jamie Bryson are very strange bedfellows. A small minority who shout the loudest.

The Protocol is absolutely going to make it harder for certain "organisations" to import their "product" going forward no doubt.

I'm amazed the MLA's have not been threatened with salaries being withheld unless an executive gets set up, how on earth does this work? You would have to imagine one would be set up quick smart (loyalist threats or not) if there wasn't a wage to be had.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119793828#Comment_119793828

I mentioned this in a previous thread, but there's a part of me that's wondering if they're using the protocol as a scapegoat to avoid going into Stormont with a nationalist First Minister. If they somehow came out on top in the election, I wonder if the protocol objections would be put to one side?

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800124#Comment_119800124

Theres no question thats what they are doing, if it wasn't the NIP there would be some other excuse.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119800124#Comment_119800124

I'd almost put money on that being the case. Notwithstanding the insecurity about the Protocol causing an economic and social pivot closer to the Republic, the DUP are trying to arrest to slow drip towards Nationalist-adjacent primacy. Anything will do for them.

arctictree

Is this not a flaw in the GFA? That one party can just hold up things indefinitely? What happens if this just continues?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802419#Comment_119802419

I thought the British Government will direct rule in that case ?

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802743#Comment_119802743

No, London with oversight and input from Dublin, it will never go back to exclusive direct rule from London as things stand.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802826#Comment_119802826

This is correct.

Under the GFA, the Secretary of State and the Westminster Parliament have responsibility for non-devolved issues in NI. Right now when the devolved institutions - the Executive and the Assembly - are not functioning, devolved issues are handled on a caretaker basis by the NI civil service. But if devolution is terminated, temporarily or permanently, those issues become non-devolved issues and will be handled by the SoS and Westminster.

But.

The GFA also creates the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, which includes ministers and advisers from Dublin and Westminster (but not from Stormont). The BIIC is jointly chaired by British and Irish ministers and its decisions "will be by agreement between both Governments. The Governments will make determined efforts to resolve disagreements between them."

Through the BIIC the Irish government "may put forward views and proposals" concerned with "non-devolved Northern Ireland matters". If devolution is suspended or terminated, the Irish government can address previously devolved NI matters through the BIIC

So, Westminster retains control of the formerly devolved matters, but it listens to the views and proposals of the Irish government and seeks to exercise its control in ways agreed with the Irish government. Not exactly Joint Authority, but also not exactly not Joint Authority. Creative ambiguity at work!

pixelburp

I guess we'll see what the public's appetite for another election will be, if there'll be a larger or smaller turnout - and indeed, who benefits from a smaller number going to the polls?

Simply bias ok my part but I'd love nothing more than seeing the DUP heavily punished for their constant intransigence and general contempt for normalcy. Belligerent fools, as always more interested in ruling hell than serving heaven; but if the voters don't turf them out they'll never learn the hard way.

Suppose the other question will be if the UUP decide to hit the DUP wirh all this, try and shore up any wandering unionist voter. Commit to being ProProtocol, which surely must be the pragmatic choice now the Cost of Living Nightmare is hitting hard.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802826#Comment_119802826

We're deluded apparently. It's no protocol or else direct rule.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionists-will-not-accept-joint-authority-governance-sir-jeffrey-donaldson-42100469.html

pixelburp

It boils my píss to read Donaldson acting like he gives two figs about the Good Friday Agreement - or continuance of the institutions meant to serve his constituents. They were happy enough with Stormant when they got to be in charge, and put their hands in the till. They're a cowardly, scurrilous bunch of malcontents passing themselves off as a party of repute; their utter ineptitude at playing the Game of Politics in Westminister only makes them look more pathetic. And they simply continue to make Unionism as a whole look regressive and belligerent; the sooner they're extinct and a party like Alliance take over that mantle, the better.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803170#Comment_119803170

Hardcore Unionism isn't going anywhere. Sure, demographics will cause it to shrink as more and more young people realise that no amount of posters of "King Billy" equate to a stable or a desirous lifestyle but they'll only get more and more odious as they shrink.

That said, I expect them to calm down once Sir Keir becomes PM. He has no incentive to treat them with anything other than base diplomacy and much of his party despise them and they know it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803059#Comment_119803059

Joint rule was on the table in 2007,it forced Ian paisley hand into government

The threat of it,actually made powersharing appear to have a possibility of working for a few years.

intellectual dosser

The DUP are absolutely snookered.

They are grandstanding about keeping Stormont closed, which has meant NI cannot properly allocate relief for inflation etc while some working bodies such as nurses are preparing to strike. All the while the Irish Language Act has been implemented, abortion facilities are being put in place and, for the giggles, the BBC are going to expand their GAA coverage having given the Twelfth the boot.

You couldn’t write it, ironically both Nationalists and Alliance should be making them swallow their failed representation of unionists when canvassing for this election.

The only way they get out of this is if they somehow avoid contraction in the elections. NI politics would always surprise you, but I don’t expect it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803869#Comment_119803869

The only way to get out of this, would be for the DUP to be the largest party,so as not have to serve under a Catholic first minister

Realistically noone thinks the protocol can be solved via stormont being open or not....it's a Trojan horse for outright bigotry

political analyst

Given that the recent census shows there are more Catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland and the fact that the European Convention on Human Rights is enshrined in domestic law, Unionist hegemony at Stormont will never come back. So why would mandatory coalition between unionists and nationalists be necessary anymore? Mandatory coalition is definitely not working but the British and Irish government won't admit that the Emperor has no clothes!

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803779#Comment_119803779

It was direct rule "with a green tinge" that the DUP was threatened with in 2007 - not joint rule.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805407#Comment_119805407

Aye like an eviction ban is different to a 'moratorium on evictions'

Dr Paisley has told the BBC that "undemocratic" elements at Westminster had forced him to choose between his reputation and his country.

He said the British government vowed to impose its so-called "Plan B" if a power-sharing deal was not agreed by March 26.

That plan would have seen Ireland and Britain running the North on a partnership basis.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119805432#Comment_119805432

Joint rule would mean the Irish government having a veto - which it doesn't - on what decisions the British government would make for NI. The 'green tinge' would have meant an informal say in the running of NI.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806796#Comment_119806796

And since Ireland removed it's claim to NI. It's akin to the UN saying something.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804704#Comment_119804704

That only gets them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

IF they become the biggest party and get to become (co-equal) FM the the signal it sends out is that they will only participate if they get to win, only if it's a "protestant state" etc. They get to rub people's faces in it. People remember that stuff.

The other parties will have food for thought then. Yes Stormont means the day to day stuff gets done. But the Identity and Language Act is the latest piece of legalisation that has been forced through by Westminster in the DUP's absence so the big ticket stuff doesn't need Stormont. Then again with the Tories in power that would mean cuts because NI costs an absolute fortune.

If there was a benevolent Labour government in Westminster would it be in the interests of some parties to pull the plug (or rather allow the DUP to pull the plug) on Stormont. The day to day stuff will still happen but they could focus on the border poll.

Campaigning in the run up to Christmas. There'll be a lot of economic bad news and bad weather and £6 million that could be better spent.

If they don't get enough extra seats to win the FM position what then ?

votecounts

Concluding paragraph of LCC letter to Unionist Leaders betrays real reason there’s no Executive.

“The failure to co-operate in May led directly to Sinn Fein becoming the largest Party. This can not be allowed to be repeated.

The real reason there is no Executive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807728#Comment_119807728

Anyone Suprised/caught off guard by fact DUP don't want a Catholic first minister/only want to participate if/when they are top dog....have their head in sand these last 10 years or so

This protocol can't be solved in stormont,lads claiming constitutional crisis etc are nuts,the UK deosnt hold a singular constition,and can reasonably be argued the withdrawal agreement including protocol are now part of its constition.......the only thing keeping stormont closed is bigotry,they never ever wanted to share power with nationlists,and have worked for years to wreak it from within,they committed to a language act in 2006,it's only now been implemented and from outside

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119810951#Comment_119810951

The UK has a constitution. It's exactly three words long. "Parliament is God".

The moderating force is tradition. Right now they are asking Liz Truss to pretty please not to take the piss on nominating flunkies to the House Of Lords.