The Irish protocol.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199868#Comment_119199868

Francie, Ireland HAS been and IS collateral damage of Brexit. We are caught as a smaller entity between two larger entities, the UK and the EU. Geographically from the EU's perspective, we are also a smaller island behind a bigger island (that has left the EU). We have an island divided into two jurisdictions. We couldn't be more disadvantaged by Brexit if we tried. Coveney is pretty powerless in this whole matter, we are pawns between the Brits and the mishmash of interests that make up the EU. So is MaryLou and Michelle and whoever else you trot out.

The plain and honest truth is that Ireland IS ALREADY FCUKING collateral of Brexit. And Simon and this government should be quite clear about this. Instead he's spinning the idea that nothing has happened and if we just have this protocol, then all will be summer in the meadow again. .

It's as if people here have become inured to Brexit and forget or are being persuaded to forget just what an impact it has on Ireland.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199946#Comment_119199946

WE. ARE. THE. EU.

2022 and still we have to put up with these nonsensical posts from the ill-informed.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199908#Comment_119199908

Do you not understand that Mr.Coveney has no real control over matters? He can state that 'Ireland will not be collateral damage...' but he has very little control over how matters develop. So it's meaningless, that's the problem.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199963#Comment_119199963

Ireland has a strong voice within the EU when it comes to Brexit and to his credit, Simon has done a good job as Min. for Foreign Affairs.

Whilst he or the EU cannot make the decision for the UK, they can lay out how they feel and what the repercussions will be.

  

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199962#Comment_119199962

Ha,ha! The EU has many good and bad points - we've rehearsed them many times in the various referendums we've had here. On balance, I've always voted in favour in the EU referendums but I've listened to and appreciated the downsides. There are many competing interests and you may have no doubt, that we can and will be thrown under the bus if necessary and we'll just have to suck it up.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199963#Comment_119199963

The problem is that the Irish Foreign Minister isn't in a position of power to make decisions that can only be made by the UK gov? What are you on about man?

Seth Brundle

There are many competing interests and you may have no doubt, that we can and will be thrown under the bus and we'll just have to suck it up.

Can you describe how we are being or will be thrown under a bus?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200021#Comment_119200021

Border controls just maybe........ if you can countenance that?? If the UK market is more important to the big players in the EU, well the logical consequence is that there must be border controls and if they're not in the Irish Sea, then it's up to us, the Republic to defend customs controls.

We can spout all we want that we'll never have border controls again on the island...but....

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200016#Comment_119200016

Of course he's not - I agree with you fully. So then he should stop making nonsensical statements that he can't deliver on!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200037#Comment_119200037

How is that us getting thrown under a bus? And what do you mean by the UK market being more important? How is this an EU choice?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199946#Comment_119199946

Of course there has been 'damage'. And not only to us, other EU countries are affected. Everyone knows this and it's pretty clear Coveney is stating that we will resist further damage from Brexit.

Not sure what your point is after this.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200037#Comment_119200037

If we have border controls then it purely be as a result of British actions. This is very unlikely to happen as it will globally be seen as damaging to the GFA.

However, everyone in NI (and RoI) with a bit of cop-on does not want these and knows that they are likely to hasten calls for a border poll.

Nonetheless, I'd be happy to see their introduction in order to protect the RoI's place in the SM and CU. It would only be temporary anyhow.

But if this is your idea of the EU throwing us under a bus then you're wrong, just wrong!

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200041#Comment_119200041

I don't think you understand how any of this works tbh.

Seth Brundle

It is interesting to see that Naoim Long has claimed that the Tories drafted the legislation allowing input directly from the DUP but (unsurprisingly) not showing it to other parties...

https://twitter.com/naomi_long/status/1535957398141161474

This shows that the bill was designed to be divisive and had nothing to do with helping out NI

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200151#Comment_119200151

'You can't have your cake and eat it' - this has been said time & again wrt the Brexiteers and the UK. I presume you accept that?

It also applies to this Republic - we can't have our cake and eat it in relation to being members of the EU and not implementing necessary border controls and checks.

We can wish and pretend something and make meaningless statements like Coveney but there is cold hard truth at the end of this tunnel.

Money talks. Big business talks. More powerful economies prevail.

Border checks are either in the 'Irish Sea' or they are on the border between NI and the Republic. It's inescapable and always has been since negotiations started.

The DUP and like thinking unionists are happy to exploit this dichotomy to drive a wedge between NI nationalists and the Republic and reinforce the union.

Sinn Féin and like thinking nationalists are happy to exploit this dichotomy to drive a wedge between above unionists and the UK and hasten a border poll.

The Tories & Brexiteers there are happy to exploit this dichotomy to leverage more cake from the EU.

Ones as bad as the other and overall it's a poisoned political football of a cake.

And the collateral damage have been businesses in the Republic and consumers here and power sharing up north.

Furze99

One logical solution is of course Irexit from the EU and a realignment & restoration of our island economies to the position that has prevailed since the year dot and long preceding the infamous 800 years of 'occupation'.

But mention that here and you'll be shot down in flames by those who would perpetually cut off their noses to spite their faces.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200534#Comment_119200534

You're continuing to follow a bizarre narrative.

If the UK continue and pass this legislation (a very big IF) then the EU will take action against the UK. Should it happen to get to the point that border controls are called for then this will be purely because the UK broke an international law - everyone accepts this. This would be to protect EU trade which includes the RoI's trade. However, this massively unlikely scenario would on the whole be welcomed as an alternative would be the (non-runner option) of excluding the RoI from both the EU and CU.

None of this is ever likely to happen becaus eactions taken by the EU against the UK would manage to cause so much hardship in the UK which would cause the UK to U-tuen quite soon. Even an unofficial action by the EU which delays trucks arriving at Calais by 5 minutes each would cripple the UK within a few days.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200568#Comment_119200568

It's shot down because it's absolute nonsense and is something that nobody outside of yourself, Kermit and a bunch of anti-EU crackpots want.

Why must we pander to this incessant crap on here?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200568#Comment_119200568

You would be shot down because the idea we can blithely ignore modern realities of trade to plough our own furrow while the UK rules the waves is frankly doo lally. It has more than adequately been demonstrated by Brexit that the world does not operate as it did in the glorious olden days.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200568#Comment_119200568

The logical solution is to isolate ourselves from the group that has been responsible for Ireland's huge economic growth and instead anchor ourselves to the very source of the issue.....the country demonstrating very blatantly that they can't be trusted?

I don't think you and I share the same idea of what would be considered logical.

end of the road

exactly, there is nothing logical about irexit and shooting down such gibberish is not cutting off one's nose, as the fact is that ireland is a billion times better off being part of the EU then it would ever be part of britain.

Furze99

See.. there you go. BTW I agree with the possible downsides of Irexit.

But look on the possible upside - there's plenty here who bang on in the thread re unionists & a united Ireland. Irexit could part of that path to find common ground between north & south, within the context of these islands and achieving the holy grail of a United Ireland by agreement. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. Is that a prize worth making changes for?

Don't expect much go for that idea here, as many posters want their cake and to eat it too, just like Boris. Anyway I only mention it as one logical solution.

It's more likely though that this new bill in London will not get through the House of Lords etc. That Boris will further decline until he's kicked out and there'll be a new regime to deal with. And that the NI Assembly will be mothballed for the foreseeable.

pixelburp

Irexit would not create a common ground for a United Ireland. That's not even remotely within the realms of reality. The blocking culture towards a United Ireland is not resentful of the Republic because we're in the EU. If only it were that simple.

Irexit would economically cripple Ireland overnight. Short memories going on to think we were doing fine prior to accession into the then EEC; combine that economic shock with the sudden absorption of 1.5 million people with all the associated institutions, amenities and utilities requiring public money?

There's just one word for it: madness. Or naive. Either works.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201549#Comment_119201549

To be very clear, I'm a Nationalist, I strongly favour Unification, I'm from the North and still have a lot of family living there......and I'd vote against Unification until the heat death of the universe if the only way to obtain it was for Ireland as a whole to re-hitch its wagon to Perfidious Albion.

Is Unification a prize worth making changes for? I certainly think so. Do I think Unification is so important that it is worth paying ANY price because that MIGHT make Unification a little more likely? I think not.

Seth Brundle

But look on the possible upside - there's plenty here who bang on in the thread re unionists & a united Ireland. Irexit could part of that path to find common ground between north & south, within the context of these islands and achieving the holy grail of a United Ireland by agreement. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. Is that a prize worth making changes for?

Sorry to burst your bubble but that idea is seriously deluded and to me typifies the deluded thought processes behind those who believe in an Irexit.

I'm not going to explain why: I really should not have to. It really is that daft!

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201549#Comment_119201549

the majority of people in NI voted to remain, as in voted against brexit.

a majority within NI would vote against irexit if they had a vote on the issue.

therefore voting to bankrupt the country to bring about a UI when the current situation will bring it about and a healthy economy makes no sense.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201549#Comment_119201549

I don't know why you expect there to have been any possible upsides if Ireland had gone crawling after the UK out of the EU in hope we can keep a "status quo" as regards NI border/trade with UK etc. if we sign up for the full BrIrexit and just lick their boots well enough.

All I can conclude is you are British yourself or an NI unionist if you really think this (!?)

There's no benefit + it would have been a disaster. It's made especially clear now with this lot who've taken over the Conservative party, purged their enemies, and currently run the UK and set policy. When they think about Ireland at all (which is seldom) they don't like us very much IMO, at the best they have an attitude of indifference and mild contempt.

We don't want to have cake and eat it here, we just expect the UK to honour agreements made and try and work with the EU to shield NI from worst of Brexit. Maybe this was too big an ask, and it seems fighting with the EU and using the convenient tool (Ireland/NI) to strike the next blow was just too tempting for whatever reasons.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200015#Comment_119200015

Any day now.... It's been six years but any day now...

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200568#Comment_119200568

It's not logical nor a solution to destroy our economy, just to appease the DUP. So quite rightly it will be shot down, even ridiculed and laughed at.

Nobody wants the common ground between north and south to be poverty and backwardness.