Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Drexel_3

The lack of data been given is worrying.

Vicxas

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640287#Comment_117640287

Almost like they're doing it on purpose to keep us fearful

podgeandrodge

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640147#Comment_117640147

Yes, but that was generally in relation to the discussion on deaths i.e. dying of vs with covid. But for hospitalisations I think it's more relevant - how many people were hospitalised due to covid. That's important information and far more important than the number being hospitalised that have other issues causing their admission, but just have covid too.

There were 89 people in hospital that had covid. 89. And the HSE can state that "not everyone who is being admitted to hospital is being admitted because they are Covid positive, adding that their admission may be for another reason". Surely to feck they can tell us how many of just 89 people are not there because of covid. It's central to the whole point of providing figures! Nobody gives a feck if you have covid but aren't in need of hospitalisation, therefore it is reasonable to get this clarity. For instance, if 70 of the 89 hospitalisations were for other conditions in people over 90, that just happened to have covid too, I think that would be relevant. (example just given to make point, I'm sure it's a lot less but who knows).

yourdeadwright

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638635#Comment_117638635

Up until the last day of June only 1 person had ended up in ICU who was double jabbed and they survived ,

Also there is speculation the person was in the mid 80's

The vaccine is working ,

ClosedAccountFuzzy

There's not much point in issuing numbers for hospital admissions if they're not because of COVID or the reason the person is in hospital is because of COVID, not some other issue. I appreciate things can be complicated, but all this will do is confuse the whole topic and feed conspiracy theories.

If you're in hospital because of symptoms of COVID, count that. If you're in hospital because you've a broken leg etc and happen to have mild COVID, don't count that for these stats.

It can't be that complicated for a bunch of clinicians to report that X people in this hospital are here because of COVID.

If you're admitted for something else, it's perfectly possible that COVID ends up being why you're staying though and many cases may have multiple serious issues simultaneously, including COVID.

The criteria should be : in hospital, being treated for COVID symptoms.

seamus

From a resources standpoint, it's fairly irrelevant whether the individual was admitted because of covid, or contracted it in hospital. Someone who contracts it in hospital isn't just a statistic bumping up the numbers, it's another person who needs to be isolated and separately treated. So for the purposes of tracking, "How many covid cases are hospitals dealing with", where they picked it up and whether they have symptoms, is irrelevant. They have to be treated just the same.

"How many patients have symptoms and how many don't" is a matter for the research papers. For the here and now of managing a pandemic, it's a waste of energy.

There's also a balance to be struck between public information and patient privacy. Especially when numbers are low, you can inadvertently make a patient personally identifiable by publishing statistics from hospitals that may only have one or two cases.

bloopy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640400#Comment_117640400

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying.

I asked the very same question here almost a year ago and got shot down and told that the question was irrelevant.

I am just interested that a senior figure in the HSE is now saying the same things that got you told to head on over to the conspiracy forum just a few months ago.

Drexel_3

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640373#Comment_117640373

I'd genuinely like to believe this wasn't the case but it seems rather suspicious

Wolf359f

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640504#Comment_117640504

They have always published the figures of how many people contracted covid in hospital. It's was just done in 14 day reports. So not live and broken down into per hospital details.

The conspiracy issue comes from a time of the 'casedemic' when cases and hospitals were increasing (deaths as we know lag, those touting the casedemic didn't know that) and they were assuming/peddling a theory those in hospital went in with a broken leg and tested positive.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640121#Comment_117640121

CEO of Saolta Group which is over majority of if not all hospitals in Connacht and Donegal said half of covid patients in their hospitals recently are there for non covid reasons on Morning Ireland this morning. And yes they are counted in the hospitalisation figures.

It's in this RTE article here, of course further down from the doom and gloom segment first of doctor who wants lockdown longer.

Wolf359f

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640554#Comment_117640554

I'd say that's not too far from the truth. The issue is, an outbreak in mayo and Sligo is the cause of that. People read and assume that applies to all hospitals.

Be interesting if the CEO stated and gave figures of how many were there because of outbreaks.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640554#Comment_117640554

RTE article here: https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0721/1236356-covid-ireland-wednesday/

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640570#Comment_117640570

It's best to listen to the interview if you can get it on a podcast. By the way he said it he's not specifically talking about the outbreak, more so in general about half are in patients for other reasons that test positive on admission.

Akabusi

Interesting to hear the CEO of the Mayo and Letterkenny Hospitals group on Morning Ireland this morning. For those that missed it, he confirmed that most of the covid cases in those two hospitals are there for other reasons and not because of covid. He also confirmed that those that have been vaccinated have very mild symptoms. General hospital numbers are quickly becoming irrelevant, ICU numbers is probably the only one to worry about now.

Neamhshuntasach

Since I've seen comments asking about covid and hospital admittance and lack of data. I can share what my wife has been seeing lately. Take it as anecdote of course and is only relevant to her hospital in Dublin.

She said that now is nothing like any other point of the pandemic at all from her point of view and the impact on her hospital. She said now is more like a merry go round in terms of admittance and discharge. People in and out much quicker and the age profile seems younger. Most who she has dealt with were either not vaccinated, had 1 dose or were very close after 2nd dose. Patients have been largely easier to treat and some are even overnight stays.

She also said there's a steady enough flow of people coming in for the abundance of other reasons people attend hospitals for, and are testing positive unbeknown to them as don't have covid symptoms. These count towards the figures we see. But as someone above mentioned, they still need to be isolated and it does impact resources. But she feels they have more of an idea on how it impacts resources as they don't expect covid to keep them longer than the other reason they are in hospital for. It's easier to plan now.

Above is the general jist of what she was telling me. And only recently when she had a week off. There was no admissions in her hospital related to covid at all while she was off. So despite the hospital numbers increasing and then dropping a bit, there is more to it than just the numbers. There are lots to be positive about and the vaccines are doing their job.

TefalBrain

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640373#Comment_117640373

"Almost like"? It is the reason.

Wolf359f

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640589#Comment_117640589

Well for Mayo as it's well know there's an outbreak there. It went from 3 to 16 in 5 days (highest number of patients of all hospitals on 17th July).

So it's safe to say the majority of cases in hospital in Mayo is from an outbreak.

Is it correct to say the majority in Mayo hospital are being treated for other issues?, Yes, but extremely disingenuous.

Anyway that's just a specific hospital, but enough to skew the Connacht hospital figures.

I'm sure the 6 people in the matter/4 in ICU are not there after breaking a leg etc...

ClosedAccountFuzzy

You're going to get people ending up in hospital who are vaccinated but immune compromised too. Unfortunately, for some people they're not able to mount an adequate immune response.

It's why those numbers are meaningless in terms of vaccine performance too. You'd need to look at the overall population.

leahyl

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640642#Comment_117640642

Good to read, thanks for posting

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640430#Comment_117640430

so that's a break through case correct? apparently supposed to be extremely rare. was that person old did they say.

The problem with Covid is that there has been so much hysteria and Ireland has been so cautious that now people have completely unrealistic expectations.

Before 2020, if there was 96 people in hospital with Flu, nobody would care. It wouldn't even be considered newsworthy.

If there was lots of cases of Flu going around, there might be a small mention that there is a dose going around.

We need to accept the fact that Covid is here now and it is not going away. All we can do is vaccinate people and slowly push it out of the news.

fun loving criminal

Has anyone had mail delayed this week?

I have a package stuck in portlaoise for over a week. It went from Tipperary to Portlaoise on Monday 12. And it's still there.

Makes me think they have the whole sorting office isolating or something.

podgeandrodge

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640432#Comment_117640432

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640554#Comment_117640554

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640495#Comment_117640495

From resources standpoint perhaps. But the comms that are being put out are directly conflating Delta with hospitalisations, so it's important to many people that they know how many ARE due to covid. That's not unreasonable. If we were told there were 1000 people in hospital right now, and we could deduce that only 10 of them were there directly because of covid symptoms, I think we'd all be less worried than if we just got told 1000.

And there's the thing. You can't blame people for suggesting the lack of data is to keep us worried, even if for the 'right' reasons.

zebastein

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640723#Comment_117640723

There will always be break through cases as there is a part of the population that is unable to build an immunity to any virus and infection in their body. I think it is naturally 1 in 25000 person. Then you have all the people who are immunocompromised because of AIDS, cancer, organ transplants. In the USA it is estimated to be 3.6% of the population.

So that is rare alright but expected and not specific to covid or to this vaccine.

OwenM

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640495#Comment_117640495

"How many patients have symptoms and how many don't" is a matter for the research papers. For the here and now of managing a pandemic, it's a waste of energy.

No, I don't agree. The volume of patients requiring treatment for covid symptoms is very important when trying to judge the impact of opening up things like schools, retail, pubs and restaurants. If 6 weeks from now we have 1000 people in hospital who are PCR positive the media will be screaming blue murder, ISAG on the 6.1 news waving shrouds and telling us 'We told you so', the teachers unions threatening to not go back in September and this is ok when ~80% of them are coincidental/asymptomatic and or acquired it in hospital?

duffman13

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640879#Comment_117640879

Hang on whats the issue here? Gardai gave fines for people parking illegally all over the shop out near the beaches. Seems like a normal thing to do.

Social Welfare fraud being tackled at checkpoints has always been something that happens. Given the numbers on PUP it is a prudent move, why would you have an issue with that? There is multiple levels of crime and some are easier to police than others. The Garda dont make legislation either btw

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640676#Comment_117640676

He said over half of covid cases we're seeing in our hospitals are for non covid reasons. To me that doesn't sound like it's because of the outbreak in Mayo hospital (which he did mention separately). Sounded to me like a more generally 50% thing. I'm going to assume this is the case in all our hospitals until told otherwise but you can disagree if you want. ICU is another matter and again we don't know the breakdown for reasons there as they won't tell us.

duffman13

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640787#Comment_117640787

Covid has amped up the hysteria but there has always been a reactive nature to the news in Ireland. If you look at flu season in previous years, when there is a news article about trollies piling up from flu, there is a significant increase of people looking for vaccinations. Ask any GP or Pharmacist that.

Covid is here to stay and there really needs to be a release from constant case numbers etc at some point. Older people put a lot of stock in news and fear being created is very unsettling.

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640963#Comment_117640963

what should the nature of a response be if not reactive? when you're on the steps telling the nation 10 of thousands will die..

The reason people get the Flu jab is precisely so they don't end up being stuck on a trolley in some shambles of a corridor, not really because they fear it's a deadly disease.

I agree 100% on your last line though

The people being admitted to hospital could have had covid and recovered weeks ago.

Seemingly its very difficult to get a negative PCR test even after you have quarantined for two weeks after a covid diagnosis. This is why young people who have travelled to the continent and got covid are travelling back through Belfast, they get a positive PCR and then keep doing antigen tests until they get a negative one. Many have booked flights both to Dublin and Belfast and once they get a negative antigen test they head home through Belfast.

The antigen tests are free in Portugal except for the one you need to travel with, that costs twenty five euros.

The Portuguese obviously dont think antigen tests are snake oil, neither do the Danes, they have pop up centres everywhere for free antigen testing, you dont even have to be a citizen. You get your antigen test which last three days and allows you to have a normal life, this has been the case since March, Denmarks cases are a lot loer than ours.

Its absolute unreal here that we still cant sit down indoors and have a coffee, what the hell did we do since March to preare for a plan B when going on our risk averse environment we were extremely unlikely to open indoor dining.

its utterly unacceptable that practically no one can get through to the helpline, its absymal service. I have been completely vaccinated since early June and I still dont have a vaccination certificate and I have spent at least two hours trying to ring that god forsaken help line.