Report on High Percentage of Traveller Unemployment

mariaalice

Jequ0n wrote: »

How did the vaccination respond to that news?

It's a brief chat not an in-depth analysis of their life.

Mad_maxx

suicide_circus wrote: »

To summarise the report;

More money needed for more NGOs and Quango jobs.

Indeed, not only do more sociology graduates get a well paid gig , they also get to wag their finger at middle Ireland in the process which of course is the biggest prize for progressives who view travellers as a trendy pet project

BettyS

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Indeed, not only do more sociology graduates get a well paid gig , they also get to wag their finger at middle Ireland in the process

Is there evidence to back up that the currently employee NGOs are actually making a meaningful difference to the education for the members of the travelling community?

TomTomTim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Indeed, not only do more sociology graduates get a well paid gig , they also get to wag their finger at middle Ireland in the process

At least when you get scammed by a traveller, there's no humanitarian pretense. NGOs scam us everyday under the guise of eradicating discrimination.

raze_them_all_

Let's look at probably the most famous traveller in the world.
Tyson fury. Wealthy as ****, can provide any education in the world for his five kids, his biggest obstacle?? His wife wants none of their in kids in school after age 11

Ten of Swords

Batattackrat do not post in this thread again

Jequ0n

mariaalice wrote: »

It's a brief chat not an in-depth analysis of their life.

Most impressive, my dear

mariaalice

TomTomTim wrote: »

At least when you get scammed by a traveller, there's no humanitarian pretense. NGOs scam us everyday under the guise of eradicating discrimination.

How are NGO scamming people?

Mad_maxx

BettyS wrote: »

Is there evidence to back up that the currently employee NGOs are actually making a meaningful difference to the education for the members of the travelling community?

What made you think helping travellers was the goal?

It's about smug urban progressives hopping on the ever expanding victim industry train so they can get paid to wag their finger at Joe and Jane middle Ireland tax payer

Those kinds have always eulogised who they see as at odds with the mainstream, it's a way of joining the revolution against the bourgeois in their eyes, safely from their Dublin 6 home

Ten of Swords

A number of posts have been deleted and several cards have been handed out for traveller bashing, stereotyping and blatant trolling.

Let's see if we can discuss this topic civilly please

For me this statistic shows just how much of an uphill struggle it’s going to be to help drag travellers out of poverty and into a more stable form of existence.

Leave the fact that their travellers aside for a minute. Any human being raised away from mainstream society, highly disadvantaged from the outset- only a fraction will break free from that and end up better off, both from a well being and financial perspective. Throw in mass discrimination in society and there will be fewer still.

A person growing up in a highly disadvantaged area is under huge pressure as a child to avoid getting involved in criminality, drugs, violence - which will be greatly dictated by how much their parents are prepared to spend time raising them well but even that may not be enough-and also face discrimination based on their locality- but at least they’ll likely be able to read and write, have steady schooling and may find an area of skill bringing them to eventual gainful employment.

I don’t know what the answer is - In fact I don’t think anyone knows-but it will take the cooperation of the travelling community as a whole in order for things to change for the better for them. I also think that there is a certain growing female traveller population that seem to be quite a strong force for good and that group should be supported and encouraged. But I fear will be having similar conversations in 50 years time.

BobMc

mohawk wrote: »

Many of us come from families where finishing secondary school and then going on to either college, a trade or some further training is expected of us. No ifs or buts. That is what is expected and that is what you do. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many growing up in traveller communities. School drop out is still a big issue.

Like other posters above have said. When controlling for education are they doing better or worse then others.

they're proud of their lack of schooling, if you ever look at facebook marketplace and see some of the profiles, most will literally proudly proclaim didnt go etc.

This needs to change, its often in the papers about parent up in court for lack of attendance etc too

suicide_circus

The unique ethnic status thing....the very last thing travellers needed was to be further "othered" from the rest of the Irish population. Stupid cack handed move.

BanditLuke

Ten of Swords wrote: »

A number of posts have been deleted and several cards have been handed out for traveller bashing, stereotyping and blatant trolling.

Let's see if we can discuss this topic civilly please

So we have to remain civil whilst we discuss a section of our community who are predominantly uncivil to the rest of that society?

Talking straight facts and interactions posters have had with members of the travelling community isn't "traveller bashing" or trolling it's just relaying real life experiences.

But sure hey let's just sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened and we are dealing with a hybrid reincarnation of Mary Poppins and Gandai.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

For me this statistic shows just how much of an uphill struggle it’s going to be to help drag travellers out of poverty and into a more stable form of existence.

Leave the fact that their travellers aside for a minute. Any human being raised away from mainstream society, highly disadvantaged from the outset- only a fraction will break free from that and end up better off, both from a well being and financial perspective. Throw in mass discrimination in society and there will be fewer still.

A person growing up in a highly disadvantaged area is under huge pressure as a child to avoid getting involved in criminality, drugs, violence - which will be greatly dictated by how much their parents are prepared to spend time raising them well but even that may not be enough-and also face discrimination based on their locality- but at least they’ll likely be able to read and write, have steady schooling and may find an area of skill bringing them to eventual gainful employment.

I don’t know what the answer is - In fact I don’t think anyone knows-but it will take the cooperation of the travelling community as a whole in order for things to change for the better for them. I also think that there is a certain growing female traveller population that seem to be quite a strong force for good and that group should be supported and encouraged. But I fear will be having similar conversations in 50 years time.

the NGO deep state has successfully lobbied to have travellers designated protected from responsibility of any kind , beit attaining a basic education , paying taxes to the state or adhering to numerous littering or animal welfare laws.

things are going to get far far worse before they get better as there is no incentive whatsoever for travellers to change , they have academia , media and many politicians eating out of their hand.

if the rest of us dare to protest , we will be branded racist and if the above mentioned parties get their way , criminalised through " hate speech " laws

Ten of Swords

BanditLuke wrote: »

So we have to remain civil whilst we discuss a section of our community who are predominantly uncivil to the rest of that society?

Yes

Do you have a problem with keeping civil in a discussion? I recommend you familiarize yourself with this post

Anything further on this can be via PM not on thread, thanks

eddie

stratowide wrote: »

So that must mean that 20% are gainfully employed...Hmmm

It would be interesting to know how many of these jobs are NOT exchequer funded. Or do they include the huge number empployed in Traveller support organisations in almost every county >? I think about 8 organisations in Dublin alone.

When it is stated " Ms Quilligan said changing such attitudes will involve significant cultural shifts." is is not clear by whom exactly.

Brian?

Omackeral wrote: »

Before doing the default thing of lashing Travellers out of it, ask yourself if you’d employ one. Their issues and problems are well documented but just on a real level, while being honest with yourself, would you take one on? It’s easy to tell someone to get a job but if there’s nowhere willing to give you a start it’s a tough predicament.

I'd like to thank thus post more than once. Absolutely spot on.

Calahonda52

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/world-crime/from-africa-to-iceland-norway-to-new-zealand-rathkeale-rovers-travellers-have-dealt-in-everything-from-tarmac-to-rhino-horn-40059841.html

Bogus Covid certs

I suppose that if all travellers stayed in school until they’ve done their Leaving Cert, maybe go to College, get an apprenticeship, etc, they’ll lose their identity.
It’s a difficult one. There are many decent, old school travellers who keep to themselves and their culture. Unfortunately, like many settled people, the younger generation expect everything to be handed to them.
If we change their mindset, they will lose their identity.

pauly58

There's been far too much carrot & not enough big stick over the years, Revenue, Social Welfare & CAB should get actively involved, how anyone on Job seekers can be driving around in a new van.

When I was claiming years ago, I had to show proof of how I was actively seeking work & attending interviews, I suppose those rules only apply to us.

punisher5112

Ckendrick wrote: »

I find very few people who comment on travellers have ever spoken to, or otherwise have anything to do with, a traveller.

Oh really, enlighten me , please please do....

You or I can't answer your specific comment so it shows you up terrible.

Jequ0n

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I suppose that if all travellers stayed in school until they’ve done their Leaving Cert, maybe go to College, get an apprenticeship, etc, they’ll lose their identity.
It’s a difficult one. There are many decent, old school travellers who keep to themselves and their culture. Unfortunately, like many settled people, the younger generation expect everything to be handed to them.
If we change their mindset, they will lose their identity.

Enabling someone to read and write and thereby have the same opportunities in life as others does not necessarily mean that they lose their identity.
Plenty of people manage to keep personal life/ culture and work life separate.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Travellers should prioritise finishing school and gaining actual qualifications for a start, then they can become viable candidates for employment. Dropping out and feeling sorry for oneself doesn't open any doors.

I taught in a Community Training Centre for a couple of years.
In general as soon as a Traveler reached the age of 18, dole age, they left.
They also shunned going on work experience and usually didn’t turn up if we got them a placement.
Only two Traveler lads I know of went on to full employment and those two were great lads who even progressed into junior management.

Pussyhands

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Who d employ them?

Somebody must be if they go around calling everyone boss!

TomTomTim

punisher5112 wrote: »

Oh really, enlighten me , please please do....

You or I can't answer your specific comment so it shows you up terrible.

I was confused when said post was made. I didn't know which side it was aimed at, because I personally find that the defenders are the types who've had little experience with them, while the critics have had much experience with them. My views on them at least, come from direct experience. I knew all the local families growing up, and they were all trouble makers. A infamous traveller, who's now in the grave, set up shop down the road from us. The locals decided to run them after many houses were robbed in the area shortly after they arrived.

Normal One

At what point does stereotyping become fact? You can "stereotype" travellers as being criminals, but when travellers make up 0.7 per cent of the population yet account for 10 per cent of the male prisoner population and 22 per cent of the female prison population, maybe criminality and not stereotypes are the problem.

Is it any surprise that they have 80% unemployment rate when the average school finishing age is 15?

Give me a break, they're their own biggest enemy.

jrosen

I knew a traveller girl when I was in my 20's. She was 16 and about to be married. Lovely girl, so funny and charismatic. She had to drop out of school before her JC basically to prepare for being a wife. That way of life isn't my cup of tea. But how does taking these kids out of school benefit them? With no education they are pulled from "normal society" and into their own bubble. Where the social norms are different, the expectations are different, the aspirations are different. She is virtually unemployable by todays standards. The same applies to the males who are removed from school. Im not saying they have to go to 3rd level, but there needs to be more done to encourage them to stay in school to at least have a basic secondary level education. Not just for the education but for the social integration side too. There are a fair few travelers in my sons secondary school but just on what he says they are out more than they are in.

I think before society can do anything the mindset within their own community needs to change

Pussyhands

Omackeral wrote: »

Before doing the default thing of lashing Travellers out of it, ask yourself if you’d employ one. Their issues and problems are well documented but just on a real level, while being honest with yourself, would you take one on? It’s easy to tell someone to get a job but if there’s nowhere willing to give you a start it’s a tough predicament.

Problem with this question is any respectable traveller I have met, they're no different to any other man. I wouldn't even see them as travellers.

It's not like Gerry Ward will walk into an interview in a shirt and suit pants and then at the weekend he'll be having a bare knuckle fight with the family down the road to settle a fued because Jimmy McDonaghs daughters dog took a piss on his fathers car tyre.

I went to school with some travellers, they were pals with people, played sports and no one really treated them negatively. Then they drop out of school after junior cert, are married with kids aged 18 or 19 and they're into the typical traveller lifestyle.

Sleepy

Honestly I wonder if Ireland does far too much to try and placate the travelling community and if that's a large part of the reason why so few of them integrate with society in a meaningful way.

At the end of the day, their lifestyle is a choice which is funded by the taxpayer. Halting sites may be cheap to build but ask any council maintaining one and they'll tell you just how expensive they are to run: far more expensive than any other form of social housing and the rent arrears levels in the travellers section of any housing department I've worked with dwarves that of (already shockingly high tbh) arrears levels of other social housing tenants. The clean-up bills for those that camp illegally on public or private property can be astronomical too.

The state should have no more obligations towards the travelling community than it does towards the rest of it's citizens: provide education, healthcare and social welfare supports. If Mary from Ballyfermot who's lived her whole life there in the house her parents rent from the council decides she wants to travel the country in a caravan will the council offer her a caravan loan at a preferential rate (which it realistically doesn't expect to see repaid)? Should enough Marys make the same decision will the state embark on a program of building more halting sites so they can drag their kids around in their new caravans disrupting their educations and living in questionable conditions? Of course it won't: Mary will be told in no uncertain terms that the state has already done it's duty by her in providing her with an education, healthcare, housing and social welfare supports and that if she wants to go on extended holidays she needs to find employment that will cover the cost of that (and that it'll have to be done during school holidays so as not to ruin her children's education).

So, why do we enable travellers to continue making poor decisions for themselves and their offspring in the name of tradition/culture? We don't stop people from divorcing because Ireland has a tradition of Catholicism. We don't give higher welfare to the unemployed in Foxrock because they have a culture of privately educating their children or going on skiing holidays, so why do we continue to provide more funding for travellers than the settled community?