The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

meeeeh

tayto lover wrote: »

Haha Is it the same Government ministers who think it’s fine for teachers to go into a classroom full of pupils for a day but unsafe for two teachers to go out into the fresh air in a 200 acre golf course ? Those government ministers?

Playing golf is not something society can't live without. I think keeping schools open is a priority because it is a good bit more important for the society than playing golf. Golf is banned because they want to prevent mingling. You can argue it's not working and golf should be allowed but this has nothing to do with why schools, some shops or factories are open.

Markus Antonius

Darc19 wrote: »

Someday some government minister will have the guts to pull them down several pegs

No they won't because the teaching profession is one of the most well represented in government. If they attack the teachers then they know they will be next. The fact that they have pretty much the same working schedule in the year is proof enough of this.

Eric Cartman

If theres one thing I hope everyone takes away from this pandemic, its how brilliant our frontline staff are, and how absolutely selfish and lazy unionised teachers are in this country.

Locotastic

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres one thing I hope everyone takes away from this pandemic, its how brilliant our frontline staff are, and how absolutely selfish and lazy unionised teachers are in this country.

Yep, we got to see the real heroes and they deserve praise for their work ethic and resilience, I hope that we can remember, celebrate and acknowledge those who shouldered the wheel when all of this is over.

Pussyhands

lulublue22 wrote: »

Oh that’s great to hear for a moment I thought you were concerned that you were in the wrong profession as other grads were earning 10k more than you.

No, not sure how you came to that idea.

I'm 30, haven't been a grad in nearly a decade!

Mr. teddywinkles

Don't know how anyone could even listen to a teacher about any topic of discussion after this crisis. The only word that springs to mind is selfishness

Pussyhands

Treppen wrote: »

No wondering really, it's just because practically every human in Ireland has spent longer than 10 years at one side of a teacher's desk. It's just many think they know it all from being in the same environment.
It's in a similar vein to people with illnesses as a child end up in the same field, or people with early psychological engagements go into the profession.




The same as the reality of being a student in a classroom and thinking you are a teacher.

Plenty of accountants, engineers, plumbers etc. who go from secondary into apprenticeships/ college into their field without any "real world" experience.
So what.




Ya and I've talked to very wealthy people in private sector who moan about paying tax too.

I'd agree though if your family member was primary then the chances of earning a proper wage upon qualifying is a little better, plus permanency is easier to obtain earlier... Hence why v you'll never see the INTO striking, plus the fact that a larger proportion become principals etc so they ain't bothered too much.

But the vast majority of secondary never see that 32k magic number. It's typically pro rata, holidays unpaid, zero hours, sub contracts for at least 8 years before permanency (from what I see).

What's your own job btw?

I'm in STEM.

I always laugh at teachers who change facts when it suits them. When you talk about their pay and holidays, we're told teachers don't get paid for the holidays and that their salary is spread out over 12 months. But then they start complaining that temp teachers don't get paid for the holidays...so which is it? Do they get paid or not??

0ph0rce0

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres one thing I hope everyone takes away from this pandemic, its how brilliant our frontline staff are, and how absolutely selfish and lazy unionised teachers are in this country.

Maybe we could have even gone outside and clapped for them like we did for all the nurses & doctors who were risking their lives daily dealing with this virus.

You know the ones that couldn't even get any ppe not a pair of gloves or even a decent mask never mind a vaccine. A clap is all they got ffs.

Pussyhands

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres one thing I hope everyone takes away from this pandemic, its how brilliant our frontline staff are, and how absolutely selfish and lazy unionised teachers are in this country.

"I'm a frontline worker!"....says the teacher refusing to go into a school to teach

Locotastic

Pussyhands wrote: »

"I'm a frontline worker!"....says the teacher refusing to go into a school to teach

Front (of the vaccine) line!

BettyS

Pussyhands wrote: »

I'm in STEM.

I always laugh at teachers who change facts when it suits them. When you talk about their pay and holidays, we're told teachers don't get paid for the holidays and that their salary is spread out over 12 months. But then they start complaining that temp teachers don't get paid for the holidays...so which is it? Do they get paid or not??

If they are not paid for holidays, then that would be reflected in their pensions. They would only receive 75% pensions at retirement, which is not the case. That “not paid for the holidays” argument is codswallop

BettyS

yabadabado wrote: »

At least 8 years on Sub contracts ?
Any link to something to back this up or is it purely anecdotal evidence?

Here are the pay scales. The original poster can hardly question the veracity of the source

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0060_2020.pdf

Pussyhands

yabadabado wrote: »

At least 8 years on Sub contracts ?
Any link to something to back this up or is it purely anecdotal evidence?

It's absolutely hilarious how we're told there's a shortage of teachers yet at the same time teachers can only get sub roles for 8 years.

Baffling!

blanch152

chosen1 wrote: »

I can't understand how it's clear that supermarket workers are in a higher risk category than teachers.

Supermarkets in general are large spacious environments where the public come and go very quickly and there's little opportunity to gain 15 minutes of face to face contact which the HSE defines as a close contact. They are also generally modern buildings with good mechanical ventilation.

Compare this to your typical school which has an average of 30 students packed into a 49sq metre room along with the teacher and SNAs and 1 metre between each student. They can be in this room for well over an hour in a double class and the only ventilation is provided by opening a window. It's almost impossible to maintain social distancing with students and still aid learning with some students. It's even worse for SNAs who often have to physically assist their students.

That said, I feel the ASTI are wasting their time pursuing it at this time as even if they did prioritise high risk jobs, the schools would be closed for summer by the time we see our first jab. I still think that front line workers such as Gardai, factory workers, shop staff etc. should get priority over someone who can work from home.

Understand the difficulty in logistics of this but you would think that they would have come up with a system in the year since the pandemic began. They also shouldn't have dangled it as a carrot in their first announcement of priority if there was any doubt about the roll out of vaccines and then whip it away in an instant. Surely they might should have know that this might irk a few unions and people in these jobs.

A very good point about the schools being closed. As it is, teachers over 60 are being allowed stay at home and be fully paid while not working. It is unlikely that anyone under 60 will be full vaccinated before the schools closed (unless we get single dose Johnson vaccine) so there is no practical reason to vaccinate teachers ahead of everyone else.

By the time September comes around, we should have fully vaccinated all those over 30 anyway, so only young pregnant teachers may be at greater risk.

blanch152

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If theres one thing I hope everyone takes away from this pandemic, its how brilliant our frontline staff are, and how absolutely selfish and lazy unionised teachers are in this country.

The other thing to take away from this pandemic is that the traditional idea of frontline worker has changed dramatically. We could not have got through this without the meat factory workers, the truck drivers, the retail workers, the rubbish collectors etc. They are all part of the frontline.

BettyS

blanch152 wrote: »

A very good point about the schools being closed. As it is, teachers over 60 are being allowed stay at home and be fully paid while not working. It is unlikely that anyone under 60 will be full vaccinated before the schools closed (unless we get single dose Johnson vaccine) so there is no practical reason to vaccinate teachers ahead of everyone else.

By the time September comes around, we should have fully vaccinated all those over 30 anyway, so only young pregnant teachers may be at greater risk.

In fairness, I am certain that the majority of teachers are sensible and it is really only the ASTI kicking up a fuss

blanch152

BettyS wrote: »

In fairness, I am certain that the majority of teachers are sensible and it is really only the ASTI kicking up a fuss

I agree, plenty of teachers in the family and all embarrassed at the union antics.

0ph0rce0

BettyS wrote: »

In fairness, I am certain that the majority of teachers are sensible and it is really only the ASTI kicking up a fuss

This always gets said.

I've always wondered though. I know the union is there for the workers but does the union just go and make statements like this on its own?

Any union I've been in there has been talks with members first to get a general consensus on the issue and then they will make a statement, they don't just come out spouting demands without the majority support of the members or even first talking to members to see if there is even any support for the issue..

BettyS

BettyS wrote: »

In fairness, I am certain that the majority of teachers are sensible and it is really only the ASTI kicking up a fuss

I would imagine this is the case.
It is in my job with our 'union'

blanch152

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

This always gets said.

I've always wondered though. I know the union is there for the workers but does the union just go and make statements like this on its own?

Any union I've been in there has been talks with members first to get a general consensus on the issue and then they will make a statement, they don't just come out spouting demands without the majority support of the members or even first talking to members to see if there is even any support for the issue..

The thing about the teacher unions is that their structure militates against talking to the masses. The regional reps, the local branch chairs, many of whom hold the jobs in rotation for decades operate with all of the power. Many of them are politically motivated, and don't have the real interests of teachers to heart.

BettyS

bubblypop wrote: »

I would imagine this is the case.
It is in my job with our 'union'

The French teaching unions are at the same, re: demanding teachers be prioritised

Beasty

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Don't know how anyone could even listen to a teacher about any topic of discussion after this crisis. The only word that springs to mind is selfishness

I actually disagree. Most teachers, in my experience, are entirely reasonable

The problem is it's the minority who shout loudest, giving an unfair impression of the profession. This is a very clear example of unionisation being a disaster as they use the excuse of representing their membership to make pretty outlandish claims

CrabRevolution

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

This always gets said.

I've always wondered though. I know the union is there for the workers but does the union just go and make statements like this on its own?

Any union I've been in there has been talks with members first to get a general consensus on the issue and then they will make a statement, they don't just come out spouting demands without the majority support of the members or even first talking to members to see if there is even any support for the issue..

In fairness it suits the individual teachers quite well to let the union make the most extreme demands.

Best Case scenario: the government caves to the union and the teacher benefits with pay/vaccines etc..

Worst Case scenario: union gets no government or popular support and fails in their demands. Because they never had to personally make the demand, the teacher can claim they never supported the idea anyway and stay in the "most teachers I know..." bracket.

BettyS

Even the logistics of prioritising the teachers would be a nightmare to organise! Should the permanent teachers be vaccinated first? And what about the substitutes who teach one day per week? Should they be covered? And do secondary or primary take precedence? And what about the lecturers? And then what about the speech and drama teachers? And the music teachers? And then the driving instructors? And the adult learning instructors? It is a never-ending spiral, that would descend into chaos? The ASTI would end up creating a hierarchy, with other teachers feeling peeved at being delegated as a second class citizen versus certain other teachers

Government buildings

CrabRevolution wrote: »

In fairness it suits the individual teachers quite well to let the union make the most extreme demands.

Best Case scenario: the government caves to the union and the teacher benefits with pay/vaccines etc..

Worst Case scenario: union gets no government or popular support and fails in their demands. Because they never had to personally make the demand, the teacher can claim they never supported the idea anyway and stay in the "most teachers I know..." bracket.

Unfortunately teachers are losing any status they had with this latest strike threat.

As regards the gardai, most of them will be retired before they would enter the dangerous age group for covid.

bfa1509

BettyS wrote: »

In fairness, I am certain that the majority of teachers are sensible and it is really only the ASTI kicking up a fuss

I thought the same but then why aren't they speaking out against the unions?

Their silence is deafening.

yabadabado

BettyS wrote: »

Here are the pay scales. The original poster can hardly question the veracity of the source

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0060_2020.pdf

I never mentioned pay scales
I asked was there anything to back up the what was said about sub posts.
8 years subbing before getting a contract would be something I'm sure the Unions would be shouting about constantly if it was a regular occurrence.

Vestiapx

BettyS wrote: »

Here are the pay scales. The original poster can hardly question the veracity of the source

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0060_2020.pdf

The per hour scale is mind-blowing.

BettyS

bfa1509 wrote: »

I thought the same but then why aren't they speaking out against the unions?

Their silence is deafening.

I would imagine that there would be severe consequences against the teachers that go against the grain. I would say that ASTI has infiltrated most staff rooms around the country

Beasty

I think most teachers realise it's not reasonable for a teacher in their 20s should rank ahead of someone in their 60s.

Take the Union position to it's extreme and a 64yo teacher ranks on a par with a 25yo one, despite one being something like 70 times more likely to die if they catch this virus