The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

Valhallapt

realdanbreen wrote: »

"3 hours a week in a school! "
In that case they should be the very last to be vaccinated.

Very few teachers would hit 20 hours of class room contact a week. Seems a little unfair to the supermarket, office, factory workers that do 40 hours per week, every week, that teachers get to skip the queue against all medical and scientific advice.

History Queen

Valhallapt wrote: »

Very few teachers would hit 20 hours of class room contact a week. Seems a little unfair to the supermarket, office, factory workers that do 40 hours per week, every week, that teachers get to skip the queue against all medical and scientific advice.

But prioritising the education sector isn't against all medical and scientific advice. There is conflicting advice.

Also not sure where your stats re very few teachers hitting 20 hours contact time comes from?

Figerty

Valhallapt wrote: »

Very few teachers would hit 20 hours of class room contact a week. Seems a little unfair to the supermarket, office, factory workers that do 40 hours per week, every week, that teachers get to skip the queue against all medical and scientific advice.

That's not quite true. Most permanent teachers have full hours. In second level that's 20 to 30 students in a class with a possible 6 class changes a day. Ireland class sizes were already above the Pupil teacher ratios norms from what I can recall.

Factory workers are isolated into work spaces, restricted access to canteens etc.
Again the medical advice statement is quite true either. Many have been on PUP payments, work from home or changed shift patterns. safe systems of work etc.

Skipping the queue is not something I would agree with either, but if the schools aren't high risk, then why are they closed to in person classes. No senseable person would trust politicians say they are as safe as they say. Hopefully 2 months from now all this will be a moot point.

Valhallapt

Figerty wrote: »

That's not quite true. Most permanent teachers have full hours.

Full time is 21 hours before allowances such as year head co ordination etc.? Not having a go just pointing out that the amount of hours “at risk” is less that those in supermarkets etc

Figerty

Valhallapt wrote: »

Full time is 21 hours before allowances such as year head co ordination etc.? Not having a go just pointing out that the amount of hours “at risk” is less that those in supermarkets etc

I understand you point. Scale of risk is the time of interaction with people.

Close contact is more than 15 min, less than 2 metres. Put 20 -30 students in a small room and you have a daisy chain of exposure. Potentially 1 student in the middle of a room is a close contact to 8 around them.. and in the next class that 8 can be different. A second level there are subject options with classes interchanging, so the 'class bubble' is constantly broken.

Last week schools were closed and outside school meeting such as play dates were mentioned. The next day, those children were back in school together.

Shop assistants are exposed, I very much agree, but interaction time with customers will be two to three minutes. I've seen more shop assitants with their masks down below their nose than any other group.

Banana Republic 1

History Queen wrote: »

Reform of the Leaving Cert consultation process closed recently. I don't believe the recommendations have been published yet.

Wonder will they be leaked tactically now to deflect

Darc19

The ASTI need to understand that if specific professions are separated from the masses this will be time consuming.

That's fine if there are only 20,000 vaccines arriving each week. But we now have hundreds of thousands of vaccines about to arrive weekly for the next few months.

So the chances are that by mid May or earlier all teaching staff over 50 will certainly have their first shot and by the end of May you'll be at the 40 age group.


It's a dreadfully simple calculation - spend weeks sorting out a few thousand teachers, or vaccinate 1.5 million?

Alex86Eire

As a teacher I have yet to come across someone personally who is upset about us being moved down the list. We probably wouldn't have been vaccinated until late May/June anyway - what is the point in doing this when we are on holidays a few weeks later?

I haven't read this thread - I'm assuming its just more teacher bashing but I hope people are aware that not all teachers want what the unions want.
Going by age makes total sense - the older and more vulnerable teachers will be protected first along with the rest of society.

I find it interesting that some people who obviously hold teachers in a degree of contempt, almost beyond that which words can give justice to, are happy for said contemptibles to educate and effectively raise their children. Personally, I would not let people near my children who I viewed as being so terrible.

Teachers go above and beyond every day of the week, coping with all sorts of circumstances and crisis way beyond teaching - crisis which are usually the product of parents and home circumstances traumatizing children. Any teacher will tell you that certain children will act out coming up to school holidays because they are conscious, and afraid, that the structure and support that teachers and school offers is soon to be withdrawn and "replaced" with the chaos of home life.

During this crisis it has become clear that a not insignificant portion of parents regard schools as little more than free childcare for their little inconveniences.

The only reason the government have switched to going by age is because they did not bother putting together a proper central database that would enable them to give vaccines to particular cohorts. This is the reason. Many elderly people I know are saying that vaccines should go first to people working on the frontlines, including teachers. Even for selfish reasons parents should want teachers vaccinated as otherwise there will be significant amounts on sick leave, and schools shut, when they get covid.

yabadabado

Jada Gray Archive wrote: »

Even for selfish reasons parents should want teachers vaccinated as otherwise there will be significant amounts on sick leave, and schools shut, when they get covid.

But teachers weren't due to get vaccinated based on the old system until May/June ,this new system should still have them vaccinated before they return to teaching in Aug/Sept 2021.

It makes little difference to them unless the Unions just want them bumped to the top of the queue now.

lulublue22

yabadabado wrote: »

But teachers weren't due to get vaccinated based on the old system until May/June ,this new system will still have them vaccinated before they return to teaching in Aug/Sept 2021.

It makes little difference to them unless the Unions just want them bumped to the top of the queue now.

Can you link to that info re Aug/Sep please tks

Cluedo Monopoly

Alex86Eire wrote: »

As a teacher I have yet to come across someone personally who is upset about us being moved down the list. We probably wouldn't have been vaccinated until late May/June anyway - what is the point in doing this when we are on holidays a few weeks later?

I haven't read this thread - I'm assuming its just more teacher bashing but I hope people are aware that not all teachers want what the unions want.
Going by age makes total sense - the older and more vulnerable teachers will be protected first along with the rest of society.

You should contact your union because I honestly think if Norma folds on this, it will do a lot more reputational damage than the benefit of getting the vaccine a little sooner.

Bottom line, this is not a battle ASTI should be picking. It will backfire.

Lillyfae

Alex86Eire wrote: »

As a teacher I have yet to come across someone personally who is upset about us being moved down the list. We probably wouldn't have been vaccinated until late May/June anyway - what is the point in doing this when we are on holidays a few weeks later?

Well someone is personally upset, and the ASTI is giving the impression that most of their members are upset. It's up to ASTI members to put pressure on the ASTI to recant if that is not the case. By not doing so, ASTI members are confirming their position as being that of the ASTI statement.

Alex86Eire wrote: »

I haven't read this thread - I'm assuming its just more teacher bashing but I hope people are aware that not all teachers want what the unions want.
Going by age makes total sense - the older and more vulnerable teachers will be protected first along with the rest of society.

If you haven't read the thread then your assumption is moot. As I said, if not all teachers want what their unions want then they need to be making sure that they are voicing that through their unions, and correcting the union narrative. Stop hiding behind "small minority" this and "professional liability" that and force the unions to do what they are paid to do- represent their members.

meep

Alex86Eire wrote: »

As a teacher I have yet to come across someone personally who is upset about us being moved down the list. We probably wouldn't have been vaccinated until late May/June anyway - what is the point in doing this when we are on holidays a few weeks later?

On Morning Ireland today, a union rep dodged this very logical point, twice.

Really, what's the point of unions jumping up and down about sequencing if, in either case, many of the cohort would not be vaccinated until they are on summer break in any case, (national school teachers excepted).

I would hope that the teacher conferences would be more focused on best practice for remote teaching and novel, topical issues like that. (ie, not sending through student assignments at all hours of the day & night)

PuddingBreath

hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory

1) The government/hse/civil service seem to want lockdown to continue in perpetuity.

2) There was a chance schools weren't going to reopen after the easter break anyway(we got some books sent home for just that possibility with one of the kids)

3) I believe the government will jump at the first chance they get to further lockdown/close down anything(including schools) with their "good"(bullcr@p) reason

4) The government intentionally create a situtation where they know the teachers will strike, probably with the knowledge of the higher ups in the teacher unions, thereby achieving their aims of locking down the schools again for another few weeks.

as i say, i'm probably completly wrong, but action + reaction = outcome
at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

KaneToad

PuddingBreath wrote: »

hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory

1) The government/hse/civil service seem to want lockdown to continue in perpetuity.

2) There was a chance schools weren't going to reopen after the easter break anyway(we got some books sent home for just that possibility with one of the kids)

3) I believe the government will jump at the first chance they get to further lockdown/close down anything(including schools) with their "good"(bullcr@p) reason

4) The government intentionally create a situtation where they know the teachers will strike, probably with the knowledge of the higher ups in the teacher unions, thereby achieving their aims of locking down the schools again for another few weeks.

as i say, i'm probably completly wrong, but action + reaction = outcome
at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

I agree with your first statement.

meep

PuddingBreath wrote: »

at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

I'm not sure where we are relative to each other on lifes great journey, but my take is that this is not the case, I always assume that everyone is mostly incompetent , or just lazy, and thats the main driving force behind what we observe.

Locotastic

Jada Gray Archive wrote: »

I find it interesting that some people who obviously hold teachers in a degree of contempt, almost beyond that which words can give justice to, are happy for said contemptibles to educate and effectively raise their children. Personally, I would not let people near my children who I viewed as being so terrible.

Teachers go above and beyond every day of the week, coping with all sorts of circumstances and crisis way beyond teaching - crisis which are usually the product of parents and home circumstances traumatizing children. Any teacher will tell you that certain children will act out coming up to school holidays because they are conscious, and afraid, that the structure and support that teachers and school offers is soon to be withdrawn and "replaced" with the chaos of home life.

During this crisis it has become clear that a not insignificant portion of parents regard schools as little more than free childcare for their little inconveniences.

The only reason the government have switched to going by age is because they did not bother putting together a proper central database that would enable them to give vaccines to particular cohorts. This is the reason. Many elderly people I know are saying that vaccines should go first to people working on the frontlines, including teachers. Even for selfish reasons parents should want teachers vaccinated as otherwise there will be significant amounts on sick leave, and schools shut, when they get covid.

Parent bashing much?

yabadabado

lulublue22 wrote: »

Can you link to that info re Aug/Sep please tks

Teachers usually return to schools last week of August or first week of September.
Contracted teachers their contracts start on September 1st .

PuddingBreath

PuddingBreath wrote: »

hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory

1) The government/hse/civil service seem to want lockdown to continue in perpetuity.

2) There was a chance schools weren't going to reopen after the easter break anyway(we got some books sent home for just that possibility with one of the kids)

3) I believe the government will jump at the first chance they get to further lockdown/close down anything(including schools) with their "good"(bullcr@p) reason

4) The government intentionally create a situtation where they know the teachers will strike, probably with the knowledge of the higher ups in the teacher unions, thereby achieving their aims of locking down the schools again for another few weeks.

as i say, i'm probably completly wrong, but action + reaction = outcome
at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

One question

Why?

PuddingBreath

why didn't they just have a process where teachers and guards who felt they were in urgent need of a vaccine or were older or whatever could apply to get it earlier, say set aside a week to do it and get them done. then younger/healthier ones could get it done when their age group was being done. it would have been an opt-in process so less work for the civil service. have an email address the send their expression of interest to, give it a week, after the week is up close it. book all those people in at their closest vaccination centre, we all move on with our lives without fear of the schools shutting down ?
too complicated for the civil service ?
my theory falls down though when you look at happen with that private school in bray, all those teachers didn't turn down the vaccine, that said, maybe they were told if they didn't take it they would go to waste. this needs to be investigated anyway because if they knew they were skipping the queue in front of far older and sick people then .... we'll it's better not said what i think of them.

Finty Lemon

PuddingBreath wrote: »

hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory

1) The government/hse/civil service seem to want lockdown to continue in perpetuity.

2) There was a chance schools weren't going to reopen after the easter break anyway(we got some books sent home for just that possibility with one of the kids)

3) I believe the government will jump at the first chance they get to further lockdown/close down anything(including schools) with their "good"(bullcr@p) reason

4) The government intentionally create a situtation where they know the teachers will strike, probably with the knowledge of the higher ups in the teacher unions, thereby achieving their aims of locking down the schools again for another few weeks.

as i say, i'm probably completly wrong, but action + reaction = outcome
at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

In today's lesson kids, we will be learning how to make tinfoil hats

Locotastic

Teacher unions trying to coordinate potential strike action over vaccine rollout change.

https://www.thejournal.ie/teachers-vaccine-5401487-Apr2021/

They really like to think they are comparable with frontline doctors and nurses. Those unions are despicable and I hope the government tells them where to go.

Let them spend the rest of the school year without pay and dock the days not worked from their holidays and pensions. If I was a teacher I'd be disgusted by this alleged representation of their profession.

lulublue22

yabadabado wrote: »

Teachers usually return to schools last week of August or first week of September.
Contracted teachers their contracts start on September 1st .

That’s not what I asked - I’m interested in the link to the fact that teachers under the age based system will be vacc by Aug/ Sep tks

PuddingBreath

bubblypop wrote: »

One question

Why?

why what? why do i assume politicans/high up civil servants lie?

i listen to the news(a little, don't want to be overly depressed). we're being F***ed at every turn.

a recent example, keeping dossiers on austic children's families while dragging them through the courts rather than just, you know, not deny them their rights.

same goes for cancer victims, women and children in maternity hospitals and on and on.

the governemt are grand to the people as long as they pay their taxes and shut up, but don't dare get sick or have even a slight learning disability or anything.

does anyone know did those county councillors still get their 6 grand expenses for not travelling anywhere by the way ?

For Forks Sake

PuddingBreath wrote: »

hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory

1) The government/hse/civil service seem to want lockdown to continue in perpetuity.

2) There was a chance schools weren't going to reopen after the easter break anyway(we got some books sent home for just that possibility with one of the kids)

3) I believe the government will jump at the first chance they get to further lockdown/close down anything(including schools) with their "good"(bullcr@p) reason

4) The government intentionally create a situtation where they know the teachers will strike, probably with the knowledge of the higher ups in the teacher unions, thereby achieving their aims of locking down the schools again for another few weeks.

as i say, i'm probably completly wrong, but action + reaction = outcome
at this stage in life i just assume we're being lied to(scammed) always by the higher ups in the civil service/politicans unless i've evidence otherwise.

Bubbaclaus

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s not what I asked - I’m interested in the link to the fact that teachers under the age based system will be vacc by Aug/ Sep tks

I presume they are basing it on the fact that the plan is to have every adult vaccinated by then.

PuddingBreath

Finty Lemon wrote: »

In today's lesson kids, we will be learning how to make tinfoil hats

you're a smart one to pick up on that, it's not like i didn't state that i was was wildly speculating at the outset !!! , A+ for you.





(how i started my comment
"hey, i'm probably both paranoid and stupid, but here's my conspiracy theory")

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s not what I asked - I’m interested in the link to the fact that teachers under the age based system will be vacc by Aug/ Sep tks

According to: https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/ireland-vaccine-queue

"Based on your profile, there are between 713,218 and 955,580 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across Ireland.
📅 Given a vaccination rate of 129,227 a week and an uptake of 74%, you should expect to receive your first dose of vaccine between 22/6/2021 and 19/7/2021.

Depending on the date of the first inoculation, you should then get your second dose by between 13/7/2021 and 9/8/2021."

That's based on a 21 year old with no underlying conditions.

PhoenixParker

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s not what I asked - I’m interested in the link to the fact that teachers under the age based system will be vacc by Aug/ Sep tks

https://www.google.com/search?q=80%25+of+adults+vaccinated+by+june&rlz=1C9BKJA_enIE756IE756&oq=80%25+of+adults+vaccinated+by+june&aqs=chrome..69i57.14301j0j4&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Take your pick. 80% of adults by end of June.
Everyone with one dose by end of July, certainly by mid August.
Protection kicks in by 2 weeks after first dose, second dose gives longevity & a small bump in protection.