The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

bfa1509

bfa1509 wrote: »

I thought the same but then why aren't they speaking out against the unions?

Their silence is deafening.

How do you expect to hear them?

Treppen

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's absolutely hilarious how we're told there's a shortage of teachers yet at the same time teachers can only get sub roles for 8 years.

Baffling!

Strange you find it funny.

Nigel Fairservice

My younger sister is a primary school teacher in her mid 20s. She is teaching junior infants. The kids are too young to understand social distancing and she gets coughed on and sneezed on regularly by the kids. I'm sure there are a lot of young teachers out there living with vulnerable parents and other family members. There are also teachers out there with medical conditions that put them at higher risk from Covid but they are still going to work.

I have a serious enough lifelong illness that the HSE website says puts me at higher risk from Covid. Many people with the illness have been vaccinated already. It doesn't bother me that I haven't been vaccinated as I'm working from home and only come into contact with others when doing my shopping. I don't have any problem with teachers, guards, childcare workers or supermarket workers being vaccinated ahead of me given the proximity to others that their jobs require sometimes.

BettyS

Vestiapx wrote: »

The per hour scale is mind-blowing.

The hourly rate for a post-primary exceeds that of a medical doctor with 6 years experience

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So you are desperate but safe at home ?When are you available to take over the class of 30 senior infants who can’t socially distance and where ventilation means an open door ?

I was making the point that I’m desperate to get a vaccine because the sooner I do, the sooner life goes back to normality for the most of us.
That might be the situation in a classroom, but it doesn’t put teachers above anyone else. It’s their job. Just like mine is mine. And again, the age of the person is the key factor with this disease, not the profession.
I don’t see anyone else who’s on the frontline screaming like the ASTI is.
Get in line like the rest of us.

khalessi

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's absolutely hilarious how we're told there's a shortage of teachers yet at the same time teachers can only get sub roles for 8 years.

Baffling!

A number of your posts would indiacte you dont actually understand how teaching works.

The sub roles are actually temporary contracts in secondary school which can be longer then 8 years. I know of one teacher who was temporary in the same school for 10 years and would be informed in August if they would be returning.

Re subs shortage, Norma announced last year there were loads of subsitutue teachers available at primary level, we have 4 teachers covering 16 schools which have about 50-60 teacher in them each, so a sub cannot be got. THis results in SET teacher covering classes or classes sent home due to lack of staff

Natterjack from Kerry

Vestiapx wrote: »

The per hour scale is mind-blowing.

As is their claim on pay that they want equality of pay. Rep on the lunchtime RTE radio asking how is it fair that two teachers doing the same job can be on different pay. It has already been thus, and teachers have been fine with it. From the link posted, a scale of 27, plus about 6 optional allowances. That gives over three hundred pay rates for teachers beside each other doing the same job. They have never campaigned for the removal of that nonsensical system of pay increases regardless of teaching performance. 300 different rates are fine when it suits them.

meeeeh

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

My younger sister is a primary school teacher in her mid 20s. She is teaching junior infants. The kids are too young to understand social distancing and she gets coughed on and sneezed on regularly by the kids. I'm sure there are a lot of young teachers out there living with vulnerable parents and other family members.

And that's exactly the reason why those parents and vulnerable family members should be prioritised. So they are not protected just from catching Covid from their teacher children but also from any one else.

BettyS

khalessi wrote: »

A number of your posts would indiacte you dont actually understand how teaching works.

The sub roles are actually temporary contracts in secondary school which can be longer then 8 years. I know of one teacher who was temporary in the same school for 10 years and would be informed in August if they would be returning.

Re sus shortage, Norma announced last year there were loads of subsitutue teachers available at primary level, we have 4 teachers covering 16 schools which have about

But is that teacher the exception or the rule? What are the statistics?

tayto lover

Beasty wrote: »

I think most teachers realise it's not reasonable for a teacher in their 20s should rank ahead of someone in their 60s.

Take the Union position to it's extreme and a 64yo teacher ranks on a par with a 25yo one, despite one being something like 70 times more likely to die if they catch this virus

Why don’t they prioritise teachers over the age of 50 or 55. Problem solved.

BettyS

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

As is their claim on pay that they want equality of pay. Rep on the lunchtime RTE radio asking how is it fair that two teachers doing the same job can be on different pay. It has already been thus, and teachers have been fine with it. From the link posted, a scale of 27, plus about 6 optional allowances. That gives over three hundred pay rates for teachers beside each other doing the same job. They have never campaigned for the removal of that nonsensical system of pay increases regardless of teaching performance. 300 different rates are fine when it suits them.

And will the doctors and nurses and civil servants and gardai ask for equality of pay also? Does experience count for nothing?

Natterjack from Kerry

tayto lover wrote: »

Why don’t they prioritise teachers over the age of 50 or 55. Problem solved.

There is no point. It is just unnecessary administraion. The difference in timing is only a week here or there anyway. WHich is why they are being left looking very silly. If vaccination of over 18s was goint to take into next year, then there would be some case, with teachers going back to class rooms in Sept. But since those 50-59s will have a shot in the next couple of months anyway, its all rather pointless. And needlessly troublesome. Even defining who is eligible would cause more arguments than just steaming ahead by age.

astrofool

meeeeh wrote: »

And that's exactly the reason why those parents and vulnerable family members should be prioritised. So they are not protected just from catching Covid from their teacher children but also from any one else.

Exactly this, the best way to protect those vulnerable parents is to get them vaccinated. The best way to ensure this happens is to vaccinate people by age. Each vaccine given to an older person prevents many more deaths than a vaccine given to a younger person, with the only exception being hospital workers (as they keep the patients alive, and a shortage of hospital workers leads to more deaths).

yabadabado

khalessi wrote: »

A number of your posts would indiacte you dont actually understand how teaching works.

I know of one teacher who was temporary in the same school for 10 years and would be informed in August if they would be returning.

Is that not illegal based on the Part Time Workers act?

Its crazy to think anyone would spend 10 years getting strung along on sub contracts,while actually looking for a contracted position.

realdanbreen

tayto lover wrote: »

Why don’t they prioritise teachers over the age of 50 or 55. Problem solved.

Another way to solve the problem would be for them to stop moaning and whinging.

Jim Root

This is a disgusting position to take.

Natterjack from Kerry

As I said last week :

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Teachers? Teachers who used to teach but have left it? Teachers who are unemployed so not attached to a school? SNAs? People who give grinds from their homes? People is 3rd level? Universities only? Or those teaching in assorted private or professional schools? Those who give night classes in flower arranging? People with a hdip but have never worked as teachers?
It's too messy.
Age is just so simple, no arguments, and gets the protection to those who most need it in order.

Of course, for the unions. the definition would be union members. But that shows how self centred their focus is.

Figerty

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

As I said last week :



Of course, for the unions. the definition would be union members. But that shows how self centred their focus is.

Unions job is to look after the pay and condition of their members. Simple as that. If the shop keepers and shop assisstants were members of trade unions they would (or should) be doing the same. That't what a union is for. if self centred = protecting pay and conditions then you are correct.

Nigel Fairservice

meeeeh wrote: »

And that's exactly the reason why those parents and vulnerable family members should be prioritised. So they are not protected just from catching Covid from their teacher children but also from any one else.

They should but they aren't and probably won't. The 65 year old diabetic with a child who is teaching and still living at home probably won't be vaccinated until after the end of the school year.

khalessi

BettyS wrote: »

But is that teacher the exception or the rule? What are the statistics?

In secondary it is pretty much the rule, teachers could spend years as temporary. They also may not have full hours and could have as little as 3 hours a week in a school, depending on subject and timetable requirement.

Figerty

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

They should but they aren't and probably won't. The 65 year old diabetic with child who is teaching and still living at home probably won't be vaccinated until after the end of the school year.

Category 4......eh??? hello.. these are to be done before the teachers in any case...


https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/rollout/rollout.html

History Queen

It took me a few days to figure out my position on this having listened and debated the argument. Initially I was disgusted because we were given assurances and then these assurances were retracted without warning. WHO, UNESCO and other international bodies have called for educators to be vaccinated. That being said anything that speeds up the rollout will benefit us all in the long term.

I'm a post primary teacher in my 30s. Happy to wait as per new priority list once I'm vaccinated by the new school year.

I still feel some people should be prioritised including special school staff, SNAs, carers and childcare workers. They do not have the mitigating measures that the rest of us can avail of such as masks/distancing/not having to deal with intimate care.I worry about theeffect of all this on our ability to run the likes of July Provision if staff aren't vaccinated.

I also think some of the talk around all of this is hugely damaging.

Natterjack from Kerry

Figerty wrote: »

Unions job is to look after the pay and condition of their members. Simple as that. If the shop keepers and shop assisstants were members of trade unions they would (or should) be doing the same. That't what a union is for. if self centred = protecting pay and conditions then you are correct.

In normal years and for the normal activities of pay and conditions, maybe yes.

But if they are fine with blatant climbing over others in society as in this case, then they well deserve all the criticism they are getting.

yabadabado

khalessi wrote: »

In secondary it is pretty much the rule, teachers could spend years as temporary. They also may not have full hours and could have as little as 3 hours a week in a school, depending on subject and timetable requirement.

8 years is about average time a teacher spends as sub ?

I find that very hard to believe ,is there anything from Unions or Department of Education to back this stat up?

Locotastic

Figerty wrote: »

Unions job is to look after the pay and condition of their members. Simple as that. If the shop keepers and shop assisstants were members of trade unions they would (or should) be doing the same. That't what a union is for. if self centred = protecting pay and conditions then you are correct.

It's extremely myopic at best not to see the bigger picture given the current circumstances.
The dogs in the street know that it makes best sense to have our older population protected before a 20 something teacher, it's not rocket science.

The approach being used for vaccines now works to benefit the whole country, vaccinating teachers benefits the teachers.

There is no room for a selfish attitude when it comes to this, union function or not. Everyone has had to put up with things that they wouldn't otherwise, why should teachers be any different and why do they expect to be allowed to skip ahead of people who might need it more?

khalessi

yabadabado wrote: »

8 years is about average time a teacher spends as sub ?

I find that very hard to believe ,is there anything from Unions or Department of Education to back this stat up?

On a temporary contract, if you are shocked and that interested contact Dept of Ed.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

On a temporary contract, if you are shocked and that interested contact Dept of Ed.

So there's no stats or data to back that up? How is it a rule?

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

So there's no stats or data to back that up? How is it a rule?

I am sure there are stats, it isnt a secret and has been mentioned on other threads you frequent. If you dont like the word rule, I only used it replying to Betty S who used it first perhaps majority, majority of teachers in secondary could spend years on a temporary contract of varying hours.

Nigel Fairservice

Figerty wrote: »

Category 4......eh??? hello.. these are to be done before the teachers in any case...


https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/rollout/rollout.html

That list isn't exhaustive.

Some people with my own illness are in category 4 and have been vaccinated. I have a chronic neurological illness and am immunocompromised as a result of medication. All of us with the illness are immunocompromised to some degree because that is how our medications work. I find it hard to shake off anything I pick up because of the medications I have to take. I haven't been vaccinated and probably won't be for some time. If I lived with a teacher (I did until relatively recently) I would be worried they would bring Covid home with them. I might be fine, I might not. I don't know. Do you?

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

I am sure there are stats, it isnt a secret and has been mentioned on other threads you frequent. If you dont like the word rule, I only used it replying to Betty S who used it first perhaps majority, majority of teachers in secondary could spend years on a temporary contract of varying hours.

Do teachers earn more as a sub than if they were to take up an entry level permanent teacher position?

Teacher unions have said theres difficulty recruiting and retaining staff is contributing to the demand for substitutes.

A survey carried out by TUI in 2019 - almost seven in 10 schools have advertised positions to which no teacher applied.

Seems like a vicious circle.