The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

tayto lover

realdanbreen wrote: »

Another way to solve the problem would be for them to stop moaning and whinging.

You do a fair bit of that yourself on here.
You’re on top of all the anti PS threads.
Pot, kettle, black.

yabadabado

khalessi wrote: »

On a temporary contract, if you are shocked and that interested contact Dept of Ed.

So you have nothing to back up what you posted.Thats ok .

Figerty

Locotastic wrote: »

It's extremely myopic at best not to see the bigger picture given the current circumstances.
The dogs in the street know that it makes best sense to have our older population protected before a 20 something teacher, it's not rocket science.

The approach being used for vaccines now works to benefit the whole country, vaccinating teachers benefits the teachers.

There is no room for a selfish attitude when it comes to this, union function or not. Everyone has had to put up with things that they wouldn't otherwise, why should teachers be any different and why do they expect to be allowed to skip ahead of people who might need it more?

I disagree with some of what you have said. When the schools were to reopen assurances were given to Creches and SNA's. they ahve been burned.



This isn't a selfish request, it was an assurance given. It's the job of the uniion to articulate the concerns of their members.

Personally I think the real reason that the change came from the gov was the discgracefull queue jumping that happend last week and that Paul Reid refused to put a number on this morning. So if to stop that, and the Beacon Hosptial antics, then we shoudl go by age.

So why should teachers be different? Think about that question. Put yourself in a room with 30 students for 40 minutes, then put your self in a room with 30 different students 40 minutes later and then keep going for the rest of the week. A shop assitant meets a person for 3 minutes. Where else do numbers mass togethter at the same time? Not at a funeral etc.

Now think about this, every year there is a lice outbreak in primary schools each year. That's a reality. So now, think about the hygience issues there are with just a simple thing like head lice and some parents do not control it.

You never hear about head lice as a 'national issue' but there were interverntions by healty authority last year, and the year before to tell parents how to deal with it. Why, no one wants to, or should, shame or stigmatise children from having lice. Listen to the shampoo adds next september.

Now put a virus in the mix instead of that. So now think about putting yourself in a class room with 30 students x six times per day and the fact that not all will be perfect hygenic angels.

Locotastic

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

That list isn't exhaustive.

Some people with my own illness are in category 4 and have been vaccinated. I have a chronic neurological illness and am immunocompromised as a result of medication. All of us with the illness are immunocompromised to some degree because that is how our medications work. I find it hard to shake off anything I pick up because of the medications I have to take. I haven't been vaccinated and probably won't be for some time. If I lived with a teacher I would be worried they would bring Covid home with them. I might be fine, I might not. I don't know. Do you?

Cohort 4 includes people who are immunocompromised, so you'll be done before teachers anyway (and rightly so) regardless of whether they get their way or not.

Hope you get a call soon, over 70s should be completed in a couple of weeks time.

Figerty

Locotastic wrote: »

Do teachers earn more as a sub than if they were to take up an entry level permanent teacher position?

Teacher unions have said theres difficulty recruiting and retaining staff is contributing to the demand for substitutes.

A survey carried out by TUI in 2019 - almost seven in 10 schools have advertised positions to which no teacher applied.

Seems like a vicious circle.

No they don't. They earn less. Hourly rate , and only get paid by the hours, so you may only get 6 hours in stead of 21 hours in a week. And after 2 years you get a guargenteeed 6 hours per week contract if that was the base hours for two years.

Locotastic

Figerty wrote: »

No they don't. They earn less. Hourly rate , and only get paid by the hours, so you may only get 6 hours in stead of 21 hours in a week. And after 2 years you get a guargenteeed 6 hours per week contract if that was the base hours for two years.

So why are schools posts going empty, some not even getting applications?

khalessi

yabadabado wrote: »

So you have nothing to back up what you posted.Thats ok .

Like most people in a career I know in the ins and outs of the job. If you wish to find the info google it. It is a known fact about secondary teaching sorry if you were not aware of it. Most secondary teachers spend years on temp contracts and like I said not all are on full hours, causes havoc trying to get a mortgage etc.

In Primary, you might be lucky to get a permanent job out of uni or after a number of years you go on the panel and hopefully get a permanent job through evinterview eventually, or through a CID post.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

So why are schools posts going empty, some not even getting applications?

Shortages especially in the Primary sector.

Figerty

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

That list isn't exhaustive.

Some people with my own illness are in category 4 and have been vaccinated. I have a chronic neurological illness and am immunocompromised as a result of medication. All of us with the illness are immunocompromised to some degree because that is how our medications work. I find it hard to shake off anything I pick up because of the medications I have to take. I haven't been vaccinated and probably won't be for some time. If I lived with a teacher I would be worried they would bring Covid home with them. I might be fine, I might not. I don't know. Do you?

I don't know how I will fare if I get the virus either as I also have an underlying condition that is immune related and has had me in serious life threatening trouble twice. So if you want to play that card, there are thousands of us in the same situation, and untill mass vaccination is carried out, none of us are safe. from this threat. I am gratefull I am at the low end of this scale and will wait till my age category comes up.

I have the same concerns as you have, and I also have nieces and nephews in school I haven't seen in a good while.

So who in society is currently most likely to spread the virus? Schools and colleges. Colleges are more or less shut off campus.
Get Category 4 done fiirst, then Guards and Teachers and then sort by age. Guards before teachers.

Figerty

Locotastic wrote: »

So why are schools posts going empty, some not even getting applications?

Becuase, a post may be for 12 hours per week.
Try living in Dublin or any city on 12/21st of a salary that isn't guarenteed next year in any case.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

Shortages especially in the Primary sector.

Shortages, yet all these subs can't get a job for years on end?

Finty Lemon

Teacher recruitment, salaries or personal illness stories are all irrelevant here. The simple point is that expert medical groups have constructed a system that aims to deliver the greatest good in the shortest time by using age categories.

Particular groups, not just teachers, may feel aggrieved at a perceived relegation of their position but that needs to be accepted and the effort supported. 1m vaccine milestone coming this week, pace of supply seems to be picking up at last.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

Shortages, yet all these subs can't get a job for years on end?

Subs are different to people on temp contract who have jobs but may not have full hours for years.

There is a shortage of teachers, Norma said last September there was loads, this was discussed in the other thread you are on. She also said she would give, I think 1200 teachers to secondary which worked out at something like 1.3 per school but looked nice on paper. At the time she was asked where they would come from but no answer.

Anyways my school has 4 teacher subs who are covering my school and 16 other schools all with a staff of about 50+ each. So we have had classes with no teacher and SET has to step in, resulting in the children with AEN that Norma is all for not getting the hours they need. This will become more frequent becuase B117 is more transmissable.

People keep going on about 25 year old teachers but in my school they are the minority, there are a few probably 10 then late 30s and most late 40s -60s so far the only ones teaching from home are the pregnant teachers

derb12

Germany, France and Spain all have teachers listed as a priority for vaccines. It seems like a sensible measure for reducing transmissions. Personally I’d prioritise Gardai, essential retail, public transport workers and other crowded work scenarios like meat packing plants and try to get them and teachers done in parallel with the next age cohort.
If we want transmissions down, then everyone who has to work in public facing roles that keep the economy going should be prioritised for vaccines.The fact that unpopular teachers represented by their very unpopular unions are in that category may stick in people’s craws, but that is too bad.
Based on age alone a 60 year old accountant who can work from home might have a higher risk of death or serious illness from Covid. But if they are able to work from home their overall risk is negligible because they won’t come into contact with the virus. A 40 year old teacher might have a lower chance of death or serious illness by age alone, but a higher overall risk as they are more likely to contract the virus through work.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20210309/explained-when-will-i-be-in-line-for-a-vaccination-in-germany/%3famp
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/France-Covid-vaccine-schedule-When-will-I-get-my-first-dose-of-Pfizer-Moderna-or-AstraZeneca-according-to-my-age-group
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-03/how-is-spains-covid-vaccination-campaign-progressing-in-each-region-and-who-is-next-on-the-list.html%3foutputType=amp

Nigel Fairservice

Figerty wrote: »

I don't know how I will fare if I get the virus either as I also have an underlying condition that is immune related and has had me in serious life threatening trouble twice. So if you want to play that card, there are thousands of us in the same situation, and untill mass vaccination is carried out, none of us are safe. from this threat. I am gratefull I am at the low end of this scale and will wait till my age category comes up.

I have the same concerns as you have, and I also have nieces and nephews in school I haven't seen in a good while.

So who in society is currently most likely to spread the virus? Schools and colleges. Colleges are more or less shut off campus.
Get Category 4 done fiirst, then Guards and Teachers and then sort by age. Guards before teachers.

My point is more about people who fall into a grey area illness wise (not category 4 but still serious enough) that live with the likes of teachers, guards, supermarket workers, childcare workers but who are at increased exposure to Covid due to the nature of their partner/spouse/sibling/child's line of work. Vaccinating guards, teachers etc. greater protects these people.

I'm working from home at the moment and don't see anyone so I'm not too bothered about my vaccination. It'll happen when it happens. If I was still living with my sister who is teaching I'd be more worried.

I agree, Category 4, guards, teachers etc then go by age.

yabadabado

khalessi wrote: »

Like most people in a career I know in the ins and outs of the job. If you wish to find the info google it. It is a known fact about secondary teaching sorry if you were not aware of it. Most secondary teachers spend years on temp contracts and like I said not all are on full hours, causes havoc trying to get a mortgage etc.

In Primary, you might be lucky to get a permanent job out of uni or after a number of years you go on the panel and hopefully get a permanent job through evinterview eventually, or through a CID post.

I couldn't find anything on google but as you know the ins and outs of the job you will no doubt be able to find the info on this known fact and post the links .

Thank you in advance.

Locotastic

khalessi wrote: »

SThis will become more frequent becuase B117 is more transmissable.

*may be
*has been suggested that
*appears to be
*possibly
*is thought to be

I have yet to find a legitimate source that says that it definitely is.

History Queen

Teacher recruitment crises:https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0128/1111403-teacher-employment/

Teacher casualisation issue (short contracts and lots of subbing) was a huge issue across subject areas particularly in the years around 2015. It is often misunderstood so I'll attempt to explain without going through all the ins and outs of it.

It was helped hugely by the Ward report which was released in 2015 and *I think* enacted in the 2016 school year. This basically stated that schools had to award CIDs to teachers who had been hired for two consecutive years on their own hours if the hours were available in their third year.There are ways around the awarding of CIDs but it has made a big difference compared to before.

There was also an addendum in 2018( I think, will check) that other available hours in that teachers subject area must be given to them rather than to a new recruit (so schools couldn't hire three French teachers on 6hour contracts, instead they would hire one on an 18 hour contract). .

The issue is not as pronounced today as it was due to a shortage of teachers in many subject areas, however, in over subscribed subjects such as English and History, the issue remains.

Valhallapt

Will they still get paid if they go on strike. Public opinion is rarely on the side of striking teachers, I would guess more so now, most of the public would not support this move, which could give the government the upper hand to be firm with the unions and tell them pay won’t happen for teachers in schools closed by strike.

Locotastic

Valhallapt wrote: »

Will they still get paid if they go on strike. Public opinion is rarely on the side of striking teachers, I would guess more so now, most of the public would not support this move, which could give the government the upper hand to be firm with the unions and tell them pay won’t happen for teachers in schools closed by strike.

Unless their unions pay them for the day (usually a small allowance where applcable) then as far as I know they are not paid for strike days and they lose pension credits for days spent striking too.

Government should call the unions bluff and let them at it.

Figerty

Valhallapt wrote: »

Will they still get paid if they go on strike. Public opinion is rarely on the side of striking teachers, I would guess more so now, most of the public would not support this move, which could give the government the upper hand to be firm with the unions and tell them pay won’t happen for teachers in schools closed by strike.

no they dont. Indusrtrial action is different to strike action.
A work to rule could be industrial action. Strike action is outside the gate.
No one who goes on strike counts on public support.

Banana Republic 1

Give them vaccines in exchange for reform of the leaving cert.

Figerty

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Give them vaccines in exchange for reform of the leaving cert.

Keep up with the current practice. Leaving cert has been reformed over the years. Rote learning doesn't get you an A in most subjects.

Triangle

derb12 wrote: »

Germany, France and Spain all have teachers listed as a priority for vaccines. It seems like a sensible measure for reducing transmissions. Personally I’d prioritise Gardai, essential retail, public transport workers and other crowded work scenarios like meat packing plants and try to get them and teachers done in parallel with the next age cohort.
If we want transmissions down, then everyone who has to work in public facing roles that keep the economy going should be prioritised for vaccines.The fact that unpopular teachers represented by their very unpopular unions are in that category may stick in people’s craws, but that is too bad.
Based on age alone a 60 year old accountant who can work from home might have a higher risk of death or serious illness from Covid. But if they are able to work from home their overall risk is negligible because they won’t come into contact with the virus. A 40 year old teacher might have a lower chance of death or serious illness by age alone, but a higher overall risk as they are more likely to contract the virus through work.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20210309/explained-when-will-i-be-in-line-for-a-vaccination-in-germany/%3famp
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/France-Covid-vaccine-schedule-When-will-I-get-my-first-dose-of-Pfizer-Moderna-or-AstraZeneca-according-to-my-age-group
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-03/how-is-spains-covid-vaccination-campaign-progressing-in-each-region-and-who-is-next-on-the-list.html%3foutputType=amp

I've also seen the argument that these places are far worse with hospitalisation numbers than us because they're doing it by occupation instead of risk of injury.

The growing trend of reduced hospitalisation here is something I'm 100% in support of. If this means they rollout the vaccine by age, as the specialists have recommended - I'm for it.

Banana Republic 1

Figerty wrote: »

Keep up with the current practice. Leaving cert has been reformed over the years. Rote learning doesn't get you an A in most subjects.

So the annual controversy thing is fake news every year is it.

Topgear on Dave

Ouch. Big ding dong on newstalk with teachers union and Ciara Kelly.

Figerty

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Ouch. Big ding dong on newstalk with teachers union and Ciara Kelly.

Newstalks Ciara Kelly is almost the same as Newsmax.More about her than the news.

History Queen

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Give them vaccines in exchange for reform of the leaving cert.

Reform of the Leaving Cert consultation process closed recently. I don't believe the recommendations have been published yet.

realdanbreen

khalessi wrote: »

In secondary it is pretty much the rule, teachers could spend years as temporary. They also may not have full hours and could have as little as 3 hours a week in a school, depending on subject and timetable requirement.

"3 hours a week in a school! "
In that case they should be the very last to be vaccinated.

Figerty

realdanbreen wrote: »

"3 hours a week in a school! "
In that case they should be the very last to be vaccinated.

Poor answer.. D- I'd say.